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	<title>Comments on: This American Life Explains Part Of The Health Care Crisis</title>
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		<title>By: ordinarysparrow</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224368</link>
		<dc:creator>ordinarysparrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224368</guid>
		<description>just wanted to say This American Life is the best radio program on the air. . ..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just wanted to say This American Life is the best radio program on the air. . ..</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224286</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224286</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think slippery slope arguments are bogus, as a general rule.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;They aren&#039;t at all, given factual, historical reality.  Not only have we had death panels themselves and the functional equivalent for decades, but the history of liberals and radicalism of behavior and compromise of ethics, and related tainting of euthanasia, is uncontestible fact and an open record.  It&#039;s no surprise that there have been books written by authorities such as C. Everett Koop so many years ago (the 1970s) on just this issue, as well as related oceans of ethics-related material on all kinds of topics of this kind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think slippery slope arguments are bogus, as a general rule.&#8221;</p>
<p>They aren&#39;t at all, given factual, historical reality.  Not only have we had death panels themselves and the functional equivalent for decades, but the history of liberals and radicalism of behavior and compromise of ethics, and related tainting of euthanasia, is uncontestible fact and an open record.  It&#39;s no surprise that there have been books written by authorities such as C. Everett Koop so many years ago (the 1970s) on just this issue, as well as related oceans of ethics-related material on all kinds of topics of this kind.</p>
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		<title>By: LionAslan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224270</link>
		<dc:creator>LionAslan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:27:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224270</guid>
		<description>Nope, given your laughing scorn, I&#039;d never bring anyone to where you worked. Many hospitals have a mission to take all. You have some kind of idea youre special. Your institution is not special. It is literally one of tens of thousands. Youre subsidized by insurance companies big time. That&#039;s part of why everyone&#039;s premiums are sky high because of institutions like yours. Youre on the dole Vera. Your very salary is subsidized by us. BIG time. You can scorn and laugh all you want. You&#039;re in the wrong field.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nope, given your laughing scorn, I&#39;d never bring anyone to where you worked. Many hospitals have a mission to take all. You have some kind of idea youre special. Your institution is not special. It is literally one of tens of thousands. Youre subsidized by insurance companies big time. That&#39;s part of why everyone&#39;s premiums are sky high because of institutions like yours. Youre on the dole Vera. Your very salary is subsidized by us. BIG time. You can scorn and laugh all you want. You&#39;re in the wrong field.</p>
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		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224254</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224254</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by TMV: This American Life Explains Part Of The Health Care Crisis: Is it due to doctors, patients, lawyers or insuranc.. http://bit.ly/2fUweD...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by TMV: This American Life Explains Part Of The Health Care Crisis: Is it due to doctors, patients, lawyers or insuranc.. <a href="http://bit.ly/2fUweD.." rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/2fUweD..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: VeratheGun</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224220</link>
		<dc:creator>VeratheGun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224220</guid>
		<description>LOL.  What you know could fit on the head of a pin.  Every hospital that accepts Medicare or Medicaid is under the thumb of the feds, or &quot;on the dole&quot;, as you put it.  I am merely a teeny weeny cog in the big, big wheel of the US health system.  And if you or your loved one were sick enough, you would beg to come to my hospital, because in many cases the academic institutions are the only ones willing to take the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL.  What you know could fit on the head of a pin.  Every hospital that accepts Medicare or Medicaid is under the thumb of the feds, or &#8220;on the dole&#8221;, as you put it.  I am merely a teeny weeny cog in the big, big wheel of the US health system.  And if you or your loved one were sick enough, you would beg to come to my hospital, because in many cases the academic institutions are the only ones willing to take the case.</p>
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		<title>By: LionAslan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224210</link>
		<dc:creator>LionAslan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 07:04:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224210</guid>
		<description>please state what hospital you work for. I would never put a loved one in your care. Blah blah blah about deciding who lives and who dies, youre not God, that you even think you could decide who receives care and who doesnt goes against everything to do with healing. It&#039;s not death panels people fear. It&#039;s people like you who are inflated thinking they know who should have care and who should not. Your hospital is subsidized and charges sky high prices because it is subsidized. Dont pretend you&#039;re not on the dole. You are. Big time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>please state what hospital you work for. I would never put a loved one in your care. Blah blah blah about deciding who lives and who dies, youre not God, that you even think you could decide who receives care and who doesnt goes against everything to do with healing. It&#39;s not death panels people fear. It&#39;s people like you who are inflated thinking they know who should have care and who should not. Your hospital is subsidized and charges sky high prices because it is subsidized. Dont pretend you&#39;re not on the dole. You are. Big time.</p>
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		<title>By: vey9</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224191</link>
		<dc:creator>vey9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224191</guid>
		<description>&quot;What I&#039;ve seen more than anything, is a reluctance on the part of doctors to deliver bad news to loved ones of a patient. They&#039;re human, too, and they don&#039;t want to be the one to confront a family with really bad news.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This will sound cold since it doesn&#039;t apply to flesh and blood, but I don&#039;t think that anyone that cares much about anything wants to deliver bad news, whether it is a repairman telling someone that their hard drive is shot or a plumber that says the drain pipes are too thin to repair, fact is that things wear out and break -- people, too.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Some people always accuse repairmen that care about things of being gleeful about it announcing &quot;not worth fixing&quot;, but that isn&#039;t the way I look at things. When I realize that things are a lost cause I usually cut them a break on my price which helps to salve my conscience.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Maybe I am wrong to do that. Maybe they don&#039;t care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What I&#39;ve seen more than anything, is a reluctance on the part of doctors to deliver bad news to loved ones of a patient. They&#39;re human, too, and they don&#39;t want to be the one to confront a family with really bad news.&#8221;</p>
<p>This will sound cold since it doesn&#39;t apply to flesh and blood, but I don&#39;t think that anyone that cares much about anything wants to deliver bad news, whether it is a repairman telling someone that their hard drive is shot or a plumber that says the drain pipes are too thin to repair, fact is that things wear out and break &#8212; people, too.</p>
<p>Some people always accuse repairmen that care about things of being gleeful about it announcing &#8220;not worth fixing&#8221;, but that isn&#39;t the way I look at things. When I realize that things are a lost cause I usually cut them a break on my price which helps to salve my conscience.</p>
<p>Maybe I am wrong to do that. Maybe they don&#39;t care.</p>
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		<title>By: VeratheGun</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224174</link>
		<dc:creator>VeratheGun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 02:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224174</guid>
		<description>Surgeons perform surgery.  It&#039;s what they do, and I guess it&#039;s how they make their money.  I work for a teaching hospital and so the atmosphere is a little different.  Most of the doctors I work beside, don&#039;t make that much money in the whole scheme of things.  I know for a fact that I make more than a resident at my hospital.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I have seen situations that I thought were unethical, in particular recently, a resuscitation that went on waaay too long, resulting in an alive (ie, with a heartbeat), but brain damaged, vented, quadriplegic.  What that man went through as they tried to save his life, I wouldn&#039;t do to my worst enemy.  But the family was standing outside the room the whole time, egging on the doctors.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What I&#039;ve seen more than anything, is a reluctance on the part of doctors to deliver bad news to loved ones of a patient.  They&#039;re human, too, and they don&#039;t want to be the one to confront a family with really bad news.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surgeons perform surgery.  It&#39;s what they do, and I guess it&#39;s how they make their money.  I work for a teaching hospital and so the atmosphere is a little different.  Most of the doctors I work beside, don&#39;t make that much money in the whole scheme of things.  I know for a fact that I make more than a resident at my hospital.</p>
<p>I have seen situations that I thought were unethical, in particular recently, a resuscitation that went on waaay too long, resulting in an alive (ie, with a heartbeat), but brain damaged, vented, quadriplegic.  What that man went through as they tried to save his life, I wouldn&#39;t do to my worst enemy.  But the family was standing outside the room the whole time, egging on the doctors.</p>
<p>What I&#39;ve seen more than anything, is a reluctance on the part of doctors to deliver bad news to loved ones of a patient.  They&#39;re human, too, and they don&#39;t want to be the one to confront a family with really bad news.</p>
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		<title>By: vey9</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224164</link>
		<dc:creator>vey9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224164</guid>
		<description>&quot;In certain fields there is a serious supply problem.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Define &quot;serious.&quot; Furthermore, don&#039;t think that because there are a lot of doctors in one place that things are much better, either for cost or for quality of treatment. That was the theory when Cuban doctors fled Castro and were handed Florida licenses when they showed up here. Didn&#039;t work out.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I grew up in a place where doctors were few, so I was used to the idea of waiting a few weeks to see a doctor.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I lived for a while in South Florida where there are way too many doctors. Seriously, you could call a doctor&#039;s office asking to make an appointment and be in and seen within an hour. I was shocked to find that out. Specialists like heart doctors were tripping over themselves for patients. Some even advertised, &quot;Bad Ticker? We will See You Quicker!&quot; (please excuse the exaggeration.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yet, Medicare payments for certain procedures are twice what they cost in less populated places like where I grew up. So convenience-wise, things are swell, but cost wise, not so hot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In certain fields there is a serious supply problem.&#8221;</p>
<p>Define &#8220;serious.&#8221; Furthermore, don&#39;t think that because there are a lot of doctors in one place that things are much better, either for cost or for quality of treatment. That was the theory when Cuban doctors fled Castro and were handed Florida licenses when they showed up here. Didn&#39;t work out.</p>
<p>I grew up in a place where doctors were few, so I was used to the idea of waiting a few weeks to see a doctor.</p>
<p>I lived for a while in South Florida where there are way too many doctors. Seriously, you could call a doctor&#39;s office asking to make an appointment and be in and seen within an hour. I was shocked to find that out. Specialists like heart doctors were tripping over themselves for patients. Some even advertised, &#8220;Bad Ticker? We will See You Quicker!&#8221; (please excuse the exaggeration.)</p>
<p>Yet, Medicare payments for certain procedures are twice what they cost in less populated places like where I grew up. So convenience-wise, things are swell, but cost wise, not so hot.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention This American Life Explains Part Of The Health Care Crisis &#124; The Moderate Voice -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224178</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention This American Life Explains Part Of The Health Care Crisis &#124; The Moderate Voice -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224178</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by TMV and Paul Davis, Ron Barklay. Ron Barklay said: This American Life Explains Part Of The Health Care Crisis: ... on the same topic. where they give the history .. http://bit.ly/4lQfbD [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by TMV and Paul Davis, Ron Barklay. Ron Barklay said: This American Life Explains Part Of The Health Care Crisis: &#8230; on the same topic. where they give the history .. <a href="http://bit.ly/4lQfbD" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/4lQfbD</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jim_Satterfield</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224158</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim_Satterfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224158</guid>
		<description>Today NPR&#039;s All Things Considered had an excerpt from that show about the &quot;war&quot; between Big Insurance and Big Pharma. Insurance doesn&#039;t want to pay a lot for drugs, Pharma wants everything they can get by hook or by crook. Insurance has a point when they increase co-pays for brand name drugs when there is a perfectly good, chemically identical generic available. They &lt;b&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/b&gt; have a good point when they try and force someone to settle for a generic &lt;i&gt;of another drug&lt;/i&gt; instead of the one they and their doctor have determined is more effective for them. The drug companies...well, it&#039;s all about the profits, isn&#039;t it? Because the point about substituting drugs is just about the only one they do have, IMO. The games they play with patents based on minor changes in molecular structure that doesn&#039;t affect drug efficacy and the massive marketing budgets tend to show an industry with little regard for customers.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Neither industry cares for anything but their profits so if their endless push for increasing them has negative effects for society at large we cannot count on them to do anything about it. So who will?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today NPR&#39;s All Things Considered had an excerpt from that show about the &#8220;war&#8221; between Big Insurance and Big Pharma. Insurance doesn&#39;t want to pay a lot for drugs, Pharma wants everything they can get by hook or by crook. Insurance has a point when they increase co-pays for brand name drugs when there is a perfectly good, chemically identical generic available. They <b>don&#39;t</b> have a good point when they try and force someone to settle for a generic <i>of another drug</i> instead of the one they and their doctor have determined is more effective for them. The drug companies&#8230;well, it&#39;s all about the profits, isn&#39;t it? Because the point about substituting drugs is just about the only one they do have, IMO. The games they play with patents based on minor changes in molecular structure that doesn&#39;t affect drug efficacy and the massive marketing budgets tend to show an industry with little regard for customers.</p>
<p>Neither industry cares for anything but their profits so if their endless push for increasing them has negative effects for society at large we cannot count on them to do anything about it. So who will?</p>
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		<title>By: Zzzzz</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224140</link>
		<dc:creator>Zzzzz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224140</guid>
		<description>I think slippery slope arguments are bogus, as a general rule.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Frankly, Terry Schiavo was a wake up call to a lot of us concerning what happens when the same folks, who are falsely screaming &#039;Death Panels&#039;, are anywhere near the levers of power.  They would keep everyone alive and hooked up to feeding tubes and other torturous devices; brain dead or no, expressed wishes or no, hope of improvement or no.  It doesn&#039;t even matter if it bankrupts the country.  They want to give dominance to their religious predilections over your body and you and your families finances.  That doesn&#039;t characterize all the protest, but it characterizes a large enough segment to make it worth combating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think slippery slope arguments are bogus, as a general rule.  </p>
<p>Frankly, Terry Schiavo was a wake up call to a lot of us concerning what happens when the same folks, who are falsely screaming &#39;Death Panels&#39;, are anywhere near the levers of power.  They would keep everyone alive and hooked up to feeding tubes and other torturous devices; brain dead or no, expressed wishes or no, hope of improvement or no.  It doesn&#39;t even matter if it bankrupts the country.  They want to give dominance to their religious predilections over your body and you and your families finances.  That doesn&#39;t characterize all the protest, but it characterizes a large enough segment to make it worth combating.</p>
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		<title>By: shannonlee</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224105</link>
		<dc:creator>shannonlee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224105</guid>
		<description>In certain fields there is a serious supply problem.  The heart problems we are going to be facing 10-20 years from now will require that we start outsourcing our patients to other countries or bringing doctors in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In certain fields there is a serious supply problem.  The heart problems we are going to be facing 10-20 years from now will require that we start outsourcing our patients to other countries or bringing doctors in.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224102</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224102</guid>
		<description>&quot;when you try and bring these kinds of issues to the fore, there&#039;s always someone shouting &quot;DEATH PANELS!&quot;, somewhere in the background&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Don&#039;t confuse the rare irrational attack with intelligent concern about the nature of the people who are engineering our &quot;reform,&quot; as well as well-known facts, including the previous existence of death panels since the 1960s, and the equivalent (including ethics committees who can make &quot;futility&quot; decisions already), providing the infrastructure for what with some of these on the Left is a known slippery slope.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Overreaction to the protest, or dishonest mischaracterization of it, is self-defeating and self-discrediting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;when you try and bring these kinds of issues to the fore, there&#39;s always someone shouting &#8220;DEATH PANELS!&#8221;, somewhere in the background&#8221;</p>
<p>Don&#39;t confuse the rare irrational attack with intelligent concern about the nature of the people who are engineering our &#8220;reform,&#8221; as well as well-known facts, including the previous existence of death panels since the 1960s, and the equivalent (including ethics committees who can make &#8220;futility&#8221; decisions already), providing the infrastructure for what with some of these on the Left is a known slippery slope.</p>
<p>Overreaction to the protest, or dishonest mischaracterization of it, is self-defeating and self-discrediting.</p>
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		<title>By: mikkel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224101</link>
		<dc:creator>mikkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224101</guid>
		<description>I may have a biased sample considering what it covers, but I&#039;ve heard of very similar things happening often at the cleveland clinic not due to patients&#039; families, but because of the surgeons. They would be very disingenuous about the chance of recovery to a suitable standard of living to the point that I know half a dozen nurses that thought about bringing various doctors to the ethics board.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may have a biased sample considering what it covers, but I&#39;ve heard of very similar things happening often at the cleveland clinic not due to patients&#39; families, but because of the surgeons. They would be very disingenuous about the chance of recovery to a suitable standard of living to the point that I know half a dozen nurses that thought about bringing various doctors to the ethics board.</p>
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		<title>By: vey9</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224099</link>
		<dc:creator>vey9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224099</guid>
		<description>There really isn&#039;t a supply problem. That&#039;s what Mikkel menat when he said, &quot;For example, it’s commonly claimed that we have a supply problem, and if only there were medical professionals then that would drive down costs. They point out that historically this has proven incorrect: increasing the number of medical professionals quickened the rise of health care costs,&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In the show, they explain why. In shorthand, it&#039;s because when there are more doctors, then the bar for certain non-life saving procedures is lowered. Once again, this is because if &quot;someone else&quot; is paying, doctors and patients are more likely to say &quot;Why not&quot;? as well as the fact that the doctors have the time to do procedures that they would put off if they were busier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There really isn&#39;t a supply problem. That&#39;s what Mikkel menat when he said, &#8220;For example, it’s commonly claimed that we have a supply problem, and if only there were medical professionals then that would drive down costs. They point out that historically this has proven incorrect: increasing the number of medical professionals quickened the rise of health care costs,&#8221;</p>
<p>In the show, they explain why. In shorthand, it&#39;s because when there are more doctors, then the bar for certain non-life saving procedures is lowered. Once again, this is because if &#8220;someone else&#8221; is paying, doctors and patients are more likely to say &#8220;Why not&#8221;? as well as the fact that the doctors have the time to do procedures that they would put off if they were busier.</p>
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		<title>By: VeratheGun</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224094</link>
		<dc:creator>VeratheGun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224094</guid>
		<description>I sit here exhausted from a long day at the hospital, so haven&#039;t had time to listen to the story, but I will try and get to it in the next couple of days.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As a medical professional, I can tell you what I see every day:  everyone wanting Cadillac care with a Pinto payment.  There are people in our hospital system who are eating up dollars to the extent that you could just go outside and burn them, and get about the same results.  People who are not even US nationals, or who may be citizens but never paid in to the system, with million dollar plus hospital bills.  Inevitably, they have a full code status:  which means they may try to die, but we won&#039;t let &#039;em.  And when you try and talk to the family, they refuse to consider anything other than full care.  She could live another 20 years like this!  If that family was responsible for even a fraction of the true cost of the care the patient received, they would be singing a different tune.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The short answer to the healthcare question:  we are keeping people alive who should be allowed to die.  I am not talking relatively healthy, intact people who will get better, and walk out of the hospital and have some quality of life.  I am talking quadriplegics who are completely unresponsive, ventilated, on hemodialysis with tubes in every orifice, and some new ones we made for them.  Or the 88 year old stroke/sepsis/demented patient whose family demands we do everything to save her.  How about the 89 year old, deaf, blind and demented patient that got brain surgery for a brain tumor?   We are slaves to the unrealistic expectations of the family, in so many cases, it&#039;s unreal.  Let&#039;s face it, when you&#039;re not paying a dime for any of it, it&#039;s easy to say &quot;Do everything!&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Healthcare doesn&#039;t need to be less expensive.  We should all pay something for the care we receive.  What healthcare should be is more evenly distributed so that dollars go to those who have a chance for real recovery.  For the OLD old, the most humane and most economical option is hospice, in so many instances.  Some on the things we do to patients, in the name of keeping them alive, would be considered torture in another setting.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But when you try and bring these kinds of issues to the fore, there&#039;s always someone shouting &quot;DEATH PANELS!&quot;, somewhere in the background.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sit here exhausted from a long day at the hospital, so haven&#39;t had time to listen to the story, but I will try and get to it in the next couple of days.</p>
<p>As a medical professional, I can tell you what I see every day:  everyone wanting Cadillac care with a Pinto payment.  There are people in our hospital system who are eating up dollars to the extent that you could just go outside and burn them, and get about the same results.  People who are not even US nationals, or who may be citizens but never paid in to the system, with million dollar plus hospital bills.  Inevitably, they have a full code status:  which means they may try to die, but we won&#39;t let &#39;em.  And when you try and talk to the family, they refuse to consider anything other than full care.  She could live another 20 years like this!  If that family was responsible for even a fraction of the true cost of the care the patient received, they would be singing a different tune.</p>
<p>The short answer to the healthcare question:  we are keeping people alive who should be allowed to die.  I am not talking relatively healthy, intact people who will get better, and walk out of the hospital and have some quality of life.  I am talking quadriplegics who are completely unresponsive, ventilated, on hemodialysis with tubes in every orifice, and some new ones we made for them.  Or the 88 year old stroke/sepsis/demented patient whose family demands we do everything to save her.  How about the 89 year old, deaf, blind and demented patient that got brain surgery for a brain tumor?   We are slaves to the unrealistic expectations of the family, in so many cases, it&#39;s unreal.  Let&#39;s face it, when you&#39;re not paying a dime for any of it, it&#39;s easy to say &#8220;Do everything!&#8221;</p>
<p>Healthcare doesn&#39;t need to be less expensive.  We should all pay something for the care we receive.  What healthcare should be is more evenly distributed so that dollars go to those who have a chance for real recovery.  For the OLD old, the most humane and most economical option is hospice, in so many instances.  Some on the things we do to patients, in the name of keeping them alive, would be considered torture in another setting.</p>
<p>But when you try and bring these kinds of issues to the fore, there&#39;s always someone shouting &#8220;DEATH PANELS!&#8221;, somewhere in the background.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224088</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224088</guid>
		<description>&quot;just like Bush and his Repubs and I do not think they assume they are immune&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;They&#039;re much more activist and flirting with extremism (as anyone honest and healthy will tell you or will admit, even if he or she dislikes it), and they&#039;re so arrogant (or breathtaking sometimes with their level of ineptitude and being out of touch with everyone and everything) that they may actually assume they are immune to public disapprobation and election losses.  However, the scope and extremity of some at least of what they are seeking has got to make them aware they can&#039;t get away with it and still get re-elected (even with traditional Democratic vote-total boosts of various illicit kinds), and to be safe they must defer at least some of the blatantly worse effects of what they are seeking for us.  They hope to fool the easily fooled by presenting them in 2010 and 2012 with mainly &quot;good&quot; things, or at least to reduce the bad things they can expect to encounter.  Some will, no doubt, find this convincing or satisfying, and vote Dem again.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Compounding this is the ineptitude as well as increasing mainsteam opposition to the shift leftward by the Dems in Washington.  They are currently fractured and dysfunctional with health care &quot;reform&quot; (their attempt to have the federal government take over health care incrementally) and they need to recover their purposefulness (albeit for bad and wrong reasons, mainly) if they want to make [&quot;]progress[&quot;] again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;just like Bush and his Repubs and I do not think they assume they are immune&#8221;</p>
<p>They&#39;re much more activist and flirting with extremism (as anyone honest and healthy will tell you or will admit, even if he or she dislikes it), and they&#39;re so arrogant (or breathtaking sometimes with their level of ineptitude and being out of touch with everyone and everything) that they may actually assume they are immune to public disapprobation and election losses.  However, the scope and extremity of some at least of what they are seeking has got to make them aware they can&#39;t get away with it and still get re-elected (even with traditional Democratic vote-total boosts of various illicit kinds), and to be safe they must defer at least some of the blatantly worse effects of what they are seeking for us.  They hope to fool the easily fooled by presenting them in 2010 and 2012 with mainly &#8220;good&#8221; things, or at least to reduce the bad things they can expect to encounter.  Some will, no doubt, find this convincing or satisfying, and vote Dem again.</p>
<p>Compounding this is the ineptitude as well as increasing mainsteam opposition to the shift leftward by the Dems in Washington.  They are currently fractured and dysfunctional with health care &#8220;reform&#8221; (their attempt to have the federal government take over health care incrementally) and they need to recover their purposefulness (albeit for bad and wrong reasons, mainly) if they want to make ["]progress["] again.</p>
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		<title>By: TheMagicalSkyFather</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224071</link>
		<dc:creator>TheMagicalSkyFather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224071</guid>
		<description>If that is their plot though and they plan on making a horrible bill that they must hide they will still be out in 2014 and 2016 just like Bush and his Repubs and I do not think they assume they are immune.  Hiding the budget costs makes sense as does creating the infrastructure and offsetting the job losses but hiding a bad bill that will just hit later rather than sooner does not sound like a realistic reason to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If that is their plot though and they plan on making a horrible bill that they must hide they will still be out in 2014 and 2016 just like Bush and his Repubs and I do not think they assume they are immune.  Hiding the budget costs makes sense as does creating the infrastructure and offsetting the job losses but hiding a bad bill that will just hit later rather than sooner does not sound like a realistic reason to me.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/50303/this-american-life-explains-part-of-the-health-care-crisis/comment-page-1/#comment-224070</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=50303#comment-224070</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think this is why it is being pushed off until 2013 to take effect. I do not think it is a budget trick but an attempt to save jobs until the economy has a chance to recover.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It is a political trick.  It defers the unpleasant consequences of the decisions being made, intentionally, until after the 2010 or the 2012 elections.  It has an advantage in that it can be presumed to be most effective among Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters (who then can respond primarily as a short-term measure to the good parts of what is sought, the gratification from which so many of them wouldn&#039;t want to defer or view critically, at any rate).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think this is why it is being pushed off until 2013 to take effect. I do not think it is a budget trick but an attempt to save jobs until the economy has a chance to recover.&#8221;</p>
<p>It is a political trick.  It defers the unpleasant consequences of the decisions being made, intentionally, until after the 2010 or the 2012 elections.  It has an advantage in that it can be presumed to be most effective among Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters (who then can respond primarily as a short-term measure to the good parts of what is sought, the gratification from which so many of them wouldn&#39;t want to defer or view critically, at any rate).</p>
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