An Internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents, with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, and right

UPDATE: Guns vs. Butter

For critics claiming we cannot afford health care reform for our own people in which 45,000 uninsured die annually — a report I admit may be high — consider these apples.

It costs about $400 a gallon to deliver fuel to our troops in Afghanistan. The Pentagon reports it costs about $1 billion for ever 1,000 troops in that land-locked nation which has an infrastructure worse than the poorest barrio in Tia Juana, Mexico. The military is asking for an appropriation of $1.3 billion this year just to build things so the troops can carry out their mission. Only a fraction of those expenditures in roads, water and electrical systems would help the Afghans.

By the way, that $400/gal delivery price started out at the standard price of $2.78, according to the Defense Energy Support Center.

This information comes courtesy of The Hill newspaper which tapped its Pentagon and Congressional sources and quoted articles from trade journals. “It is a number that we were not aware of and it is worrisome,” Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.), the chairman of the House Appropriations Defense panel, said in an interview with The Hill. “When I heard that figure from the Defense Department, we started looking into it.”

According to the article, the problem is logistics. Afghanistan has no seaports and a shortage of airports and navigable roads where thousands of IEDs are buried. The nearest port is in Karachi, Pakistan, where fuel for U.S. troops is shipped.

From there, commercial trucks transport the fuel through Pakistan and Afghanistan, sometimes changing carriers. Fuel is then transferred to storage locations in Afghanistan for movement within the country. Military transport is used to distribute fuel to forward operating bases. For many remote locations, this means fuel supplies must be provided by air, by far the most expensive delivery system.

An estimated 80% of U.S. military casualties in Afghanistan are caused by improvised explosive devices in the roads, forcing the need to use aircraft for transportation inside the country. The Government Accounting Office reported that in June 2008 alone , 44 trucks and 220,000 gallons of fuel were lost due to attacks. U.S. marines by themselves need 800,000 a day to conduct their missions, according to the GAO report.

These logistical problems are only one of many reasons President Obama has delayed a reported request for up to 40,000 additional troops in Afghanistan by Gen. Stanley McChrystal.

Meanwhile, Stanley Pincus,, the veteran Pentagon reporter for The Washington Post says the $1.3 billion appropriation bill would add to the $2.7 billion the military has already spent in construction projects over the past three fiscal years.

At Bagram, the main U.S. base in Afghanistan, the military is planning to build a $30 million passenger terminal and adjacent cargo facility to handle the flow of troops, many of whom arrive at the base north of Kabul before moving onto other sites. The daily volume is approximately 1,000 passengers and 400 short tons of cargo each day but is expected to increase to 1,650 passengers daily. A $25 million project to expand the paved aircraft parking area to hold 18 fighter aircraft also is underway.

There’s more:

The military is also spending hundreds of millions of dollars constructing facilities for the Afghan army and police. The U.S.-led coalition recently announced the opening of a $68 million, U.S.-financed forward operating base near Farah, in the western part of the country bordering on Iran. The base will house 2,000 Afghan soldiers and an American mentoring team.

Pincus reports a total of 30 U.S. bases in Afghanistan would be improved with the $1.3 billion appropriations.

From a cost-benefit ratio Afghanistan is a loser. The mission seems to keep the Taliban from regaining power and al quada extremists out in a country thirsty for some nation-building stimulus led by a crooked government and a people who are war-weary and want to be left alone.

There is already substantial evidence al quada and other terrorists groups are spreading to other areas to kill the infidels in Pakistan and create bases of operations in Somalia, Sudan and other middle and southeastern Asian hell holes.

The only attraction offered by Afghanistan is its fertile poppy fields some government officials, the Taliban and al quada tap as an ATM machine to finance their causes.

We’re talking about the age-old circular question of guns vs. butter. Afghanistan is not Iraq. Look 10 years down the road and one sees the same old same old. Not much better or worse than eight years ago when we had a purpose to retaliate for 9/11.

At $400/gal and $1 billion/1,000 troops, one would think we could get more bang for our bucks by providing affordable health care and breathing cleaner air right here at home in River City.

  • Father_Time
    Yes the military. Everything for the military. The military the military the military.

    Our slimy civilian heathen masses shall work themselves as praising slaves for our glorious military’s pay, benefit, equipment, and , retirement.

    For those whom have born the burden of G.W.’s folly, nothing is too good.

    Lost your job? Lost your healthcare? Lost your home? Your kids on crack? Bhaaahh!

    As ol` genny Macarthur said;the corps, the Corps, the CORPS!

    Nothing but…….
  • JeffersonDavis
    First of all, the sited article was written by Dr. Steffie Woolhandler, a Cambridge Health Alliance internist and Harvard Medical School professor who cofounded Physicians for a National Health Care Program.

    Yeah. That sounds like a real unbiased scientific study. (sarcasm implied)

    The study states that 45,000 died from lack of health insurance (after factoring in education and income, smoking, drinking and obesity). Wow! That's an awefully big skew, don't ya think!?!?!?

    What a crock of crap.


    *********************************************

    And for you, FT.....
    The military is not your problem. But of course, you can go spit on them in the airport as they arrive from Iraq and Afghanistan if you want to.

    You will continue to blame GW Bush for your every problem, just like the DNC did to win in 2008. When does that broken record stop? At what point will you stop blaming one person or one group, and actually blame the entire political system. Heck... Your man Obama wants a civilian military equal in strength to the defense department. How's that for "everything for the military"?
  • Father_Time
    Oh contraire, the military is as much my problem as it is any other, `Merican.

    ….eye’s pays fur it tooeeewww…

    Spit? I don’t recall mentioning “spit”.

    Lets see….G.dubya ordered…..what?

    For the invasion of where?

    And

    The invasion of where else?

    For the purpose of what?

    That accomplished….??

    After costing how much?

    That he borrowed from whom?

    Then there was the missile defense program that never would work just like Ronnie Ray-Gun’s Star wars that never existed, forever sucking the Social security fund into oblivion….


    …but those darn liberals just don’t understand…..we must have retirement at 38 years of age….yes we must! Never mind he was just some squid selling pogie-bait at the PX for twenty hard fought years.

    ha ha
  • JeffersonDavis
    I didn't mean our military actions weren't your problem.
    I stand humbled on that one. Sorry.

    Any President would have and should have invaded Afghanistan. They were directly involved in the 9/11 attacks via Al Qaida. I've got no problem with that at all. Most 'mercans don't. I do have a problem with GW's ignoring Afghanistan and placing it on the back burner to deal with Iraq.

    I UNDERSTAND why they did it though, even if I disagree. It was a long-term strategic move to surround Iran. Iran has been the perceived enemy since 1979.

    There are a few thing that liberals do not understand.
    One is the redistribution of wealth. It's unjust.
    Also, the Social Security fund has been robbed by both parties, especially the Democrats (remember, I'm a democrat too). Democrats have historically favored big government programs, as you know. How do you think they paid for those? (besides raising taxes).

    There are many others with which I disagree. You've probably read them already.
    I don't disagree with all of them though. You, yourself, separate yourself from liberals with your refusal to accept homosexuality as a productive force. I respect that. But the massive government and tax structure the liberals want is not good for the nation or MY WALLET. I pay enough taxes already.
  • JSpencer
    Wasting blood and treasure on bogus wars in foreign lands seems to have become an American tradition since the 50's. It would be nice if we could break the cycle. What is that definition of insanity again?

    Btw JD, why the frequent declarations that you are a democrat? It doesn't seem to really square with most of your positions and sentiments from what I've seen. I'm curious about why you want to be viewed as one.

  • Father_Time
    I agree with you. We should never have invaded either country. There simply was no justification. In fact it just played into our enemy's hand.
  • Father_Time
    Surround Iran? We did not invade Afghanistan to surround Iran. Where on earth do you come up with such crap?
  • JeffersonDavis
    We invaded Afghanistan in response to 9/11.
    We invaded IRAQ to surround Iran. That's why the rush was on and the lean was on to follow unreliable intel. UK was in on it too. Go look on a map and see every nation that borders Iran. We control and/or have military rights in every one. We launched attacks from Uzbekistan and Khirgizstan.

    Sometimes I think that you just sit there waiting for me to type something so you can be argumentative.

    I didn't say I agreed with that policy.
  • JeffersonDavis
    This is a comment I made in response to SteveK that had similar conserns:


    1. I support labor.
    2. I am deeply concerned for the envrionment (but don't buy the climate change assertion)
    3. I am a fiscal conservative like Clinton.
    4. I am a social conservative because of my faith.
    5. I support capitalism with strong regulation.
    6. I support unfettered 2nd Amendment rights.
    7. I stand against corporatocracy or representatiion of corporations vice the people.

    You are obviously confusing my kind of Democrat with the scum in Washington. You've heard the term Blue Dog or Red State Democrat, haven't you? I can also be called a Jeffersonian Democrat. That's me.
  • Father_Time
    "Sometimes I think that you just sit there waiting for me to type something so you can be argumentative"

    Ah yes. Well it's back to doing what everybody else here does and ignor you. I think I remmber another blog posting warnings about you. Yes indeedy.
  • JeffersonDavis
    "another blog posting warnings about you"

    Once again, no specifics. Yes indeedy.
    You don't bother me, if that's your aim. I can do this forever.


  • DLS
    The military-versus-social-spending conflict has always been a source of hype by the Left, as well as frequent dishonesty.

    Look at the federal budget for the past several years, especially since, say, the 1960s, as well as projections and what is being stated already about the unsustainability and future fiscal problems for the federal government with Social Security already (in the Trustees' reports, even the Summary this year that was deceptively toned down by ObamaCo, we may intelligent suspect toned down intentionally to reduce concern about monstrous overgrowth of Washington and spending by it this year), and you'll learn all you need to learn.

    Never mind that many of us have criticized excess by the military where it is merited, as opposed to brain-stem-level reptilian leftist criticism of the military (disparaging it for a surrogate of disparaging the USA and the protection of its interests abroad; disparaging it to devalue it and rationalize looting it, and not to reduce taxes but to redirect the money instead on vote-buying social spending, instead, the "peace dividend" concept with the name that conveys the inherent insult in the concept, etc.).

    Never mind that the military is a legitimate, unquestioned federal government function, whereas social spending by the federal government has not been (on several grounds), and in fact often has been controversial as well as the legitimate object of much criticism.

    That Woolhandler (a radical wanting the equivalent of Medicare for All, who has been critical of the current liberal Democratic federal health care takeover effort from the standpoint of the far to truly extreme Left, to whom the effort is "impure" because it retains a private sector component, and doesn't go far enough, fast enough) would repeat standard leftist propaganda material against the military (were it propitious, she'd argue against nuclear power as "militaristic" and a "health crisis" or "catastrophe" in the making, too) in support of health care (another raised fist in solidarity with health care "reform," any reform being better than none if you insist on not thinking about it first) is no surprise.

    That Barney Frank would want to take 25 per cent out of the military (no doubt to spend it on other things, not to return it to the taxpayers or pay down debt, which along with deficits he, Obama, and other Dems have grown multiple times larger than anything Republicans have done in imitating Democrats in the past) is no surprise, and it wouldn't be surprising if Barney Frank were to make a big statement soon to boost (or try to recover) the health care "reform" effort.

    That kind of stuff is tardy, and wasted at this point, as the overgrown children who accept and believe what these people say were fooled early, from the outset, or had concluded they would believe it already.
  • DLS
    Well, look at the bright side, Father Time. You may not understand what "encircle Iran" means, and as with basic knowledge, civics, etc., there's no geography requirement for you to have to pass in order to vote Democratic. But more than that, if the post-modern playpen times have their way, we not only won't be prepared to exercise what our encirclement of Iran enables us to do, if it's necessary, but if anything, we could well begin to "de-encircle" Iran and evacuate southern Asia as well as the Middle East.

    After all, in addition to finding money to buy Democratic votes here at home, we don't want to upset any of our enemies or adversaries or anyone else who might want to be the least bit competitive with us, at all, anywhere. That will guarantee their, the UN General Assembly's, and the Western chatterering class's "good will" for at least a short time.
blog comments powered by Disqus
© 2005-2009 The Moderate Voice | Site design by Elegant Themes | Site customization, hosting, and security by Enxit Group, LLC