Comments on: Democratic Accountability: A Tale of Two Countries

By: Torture via music? :slashingtongue

Torture via music? :slashingtongue — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:42:59 +0000

[...] Democratic Accountability: A Tale of Two Countries (themoderatevoice.com) [...]

By: Britain’s role in treatment of terror suspect to be revealed | Photos Of Food

Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:04:29 +0000

[...] Democratic Accountability: A Tale of Two Countries (themoderatevoice.com) [...]

By: TT

TT — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 18:06:21 +0000

@DaMav

I would think that the people that come down on the side of torture are the ones kidding themselves.
The reliability of the information would be continuously suspect and the damage that it would do to the people directly and indirectly participating in torture would not be worth any dubious information that could be gained. What happens when they pick up the wrong person at the airport and spirit them away to a foreign country to be tortured? oops, our mistake we'll just give you a lift home?

It sounds quite dramatic, hidden bomb will kill tens of thousands, clock is ticking, etc. but the reality is, as usual much more mundane. Excellent and reliable information has been gained using non-torture interrogation techniques. The sort of techniques where we get to be the good guys, the ones that *don't* do things like disappearing and torturing people.

Thank you for cherishing my 'like', even if it was a mistake.

By: Dr J

Dr J — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:52:30 +0000

fewer people come down on the side of … allowing innocents to die.

Turning a blind eye to torture would certainly prevent the deaths of innocents…by making them guilty.

By: tidbits

tidbits — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:47:15 +0000

When we sacrifice our hono rby lying, concealing and covering up… when we sacrifice the Bill of Rights and allow our privacy to be invaded by the government and habeas coorpus to be conveniently dispensed with… when we sacrifice our humanity by engaging in barbaric acts of torture… when we sacrifice our integrity by threatening our friends and allies in order to hide our illegal conduct… the terrorists have already won and we have lost, if not our physical nation, our nation's soul.

By: Don Quijote

Don Quijote — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:37:36 +0000

As to the comment regarding 'how mean we are to terrorists', I would say that your opinion is not shared with the majority of Americans who clearly do not believe that anyone should be tortured.

I would not be so sure about that, there is obviously a large contingent of NeoCons and Republicans who have no issues with torture, there is obviously a large number of self-defined moderates who have no problem with it and there is the great unwashed who has not given it much thought but would not lose any great amount of sleep over it.

If Torture were put to a referendum, I am not sure that it would lose...

By: DaMav

DaMav — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 14:06:47 +0000

@TT
How can anyone oppose the Obama Administration's stand on this matter? Obama got the Nobel Peace Prize, so obviously it is the correct one! Not only that, it's the same position as George W Bush took. Nobody is in favor of torture in the abstract; when faced with the reality of stopping a terrorist attack or saving lives, fewer people come down on the side of keeping themselves morally pure and allowing innocents to die. Those professing to assume this position in the abstract find it to be a self-congratulatory refuge from the world as it is. We should be glad that they are seldom allowed to be in positions of power outside of academia.

I shall always cherish your “like”, but don't worry. I won't tell anyone where it came from

By: TT

TT — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 10:37:52 +0000

As to the comment regarding 'how mean we are to terrorists', I would say that your opinion is not shared with the majority of Americans who clearly do not believe that anyone should be tortured.

Secondly the issue with this revealing of intelligence from the US by the UK without permission.
Why won't the US give permission?

I mistakenly hit 'like' when I meant to hit 'reply'. Is there an 'unlike'?

By: mikkel

mikkel — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 07:31:34 +0000

First you had to be crazy to believe that we would do anything that broke Geneva. Then you had to be crazy to believe that it wasn't just a few bad apples that were justly punished. Then yes, it might have been ordered from the top but you had to be crazy to believe that what was ordered was actually torture -- despite the government referring to the exact same acts as torture for over 60 years. Now it doesn't matter because yeah there might have been a few* cases of extreme torture, but who cares they are terrorists**. And if you disagree you're a terrorist lover or at least not serious, also.

* Discounting the over one hundred people that have died in custody.

** Discounting that the majority of people in Gitmo were determined to not be terrorist threats, and numerous examples of foreign nationals being kidnapped and tortured that later turned out to be innocent. But hey no biggie.

They've mastered propaganda techniques beautifully and it's worked.

By: DaMav

DaMav — Sun, 18 Oct 2009 07:10:46 +0000

Glenn's always got his shorts twisted in a bunch about something. Most Americans don't share his unhealthy interest in how mean we are to terrorists. The self-righteous crusade to protect terrorist rights creates a great deal of smoke, noise, and flashing lights but nothing of value under Bush or Obama. I can't help but wonder about the moral bankruptcy of those who would have us treat these murderous rogues with kid gloves. There may have been a few cases mishandled. So what? Next.