Part of the problem is that is seems that the entire military culture is based upon the following “given”: if you want men to be ruthless and violent jerks against our enemies, they're naturally going to be ruthless and violent jerks against their collegues. This, to me, seems fully illogical, yet every time we hear a horror story of violence of US service members against other US service members (rape, hazing, humiliation, gay bashing, etc), it is somehow a given that if these dudes don't get to beat the snot out of their collegues, that somehow there will be a problem of unit cohesion or something. Needless to say, I do NOT think that to be strong and quick and ruthless and violent against the enemy one needs to be so toward one's own fellow service members.

It's both inaccurate and a little insulting to hold him up as emblematic of gays in the military. Repealing DADT is not about ending a hazing epidemic, for there is none. It's not about softening job requirements to carve a safer space for people of questionable qualifications. It's about the large majority of gays who serve professionally and are treated professionally, and allowing them to do so with one less layer of repression and dishonesty.

If taking from reading the following in the article that Mr. Rocha was “abused because he was gay,” is a “pretty simplistic reading of this article,” then so be it:

“My higher-ups seemed to think that gave them the right to bind me to chairs, ridicule me, hose me down and lock me in a feces-filled dog kennel.

…the chief had decided that I would be down on my hands and knees, simulating oral sex. A kennel support staff member and I were supposed to pretend that we were in our bedroom and that the dogs were catching us having sex. Over and over, with each of the 32 dogs, I was forced to enact this scenario.

I don't think I will ever feel as powerless as I did when I was on my knees, wearing a U.S. military uniform in the Middle East, forced by my superior to shove my head between another man's legs.”

Thank you for your comments

Who said anything about excusing it?

I just don't see a clear line between it and DADT. Mr. Rocha can't have been the only gay sailor ever in the unit.

And “abused because he was gay” seems a pretty simplistic reading of his article. He sounds like the sort of guy who would have gotten picked on even if he were straight. His tone is whiny, he shows a sense of entitlement and little sense of his own role in defining his predicament. Father Time's characterization of him as “weak” seems not unfair.

None of that condones hazing. I don't require accountability to be strictly black and white, so I have no trouble believing both that Mr. Rocha should have done more to stop his abuse and his chief should have done less to start it.

Like what Dr. J?

What in your mind can excuse such inhumane, criminal behavior?

You must have something in mind, to make such an assertion.

I am curious

Please remember to bring your thoughts up to the defense lawyers in the Court Martials or other civil or criminal litigation that I am sure will follow, now that these crimes have been exposed.

I don't ask for nor do I need you to give me a response “I want.”

Your views and mine on the equality, dignity, morals, decency and rights of gay and lesbian Americans are worlds apart.

You have every right to continue to express what I believe are prejudiced views, and I have the right to continue to express my total disagreement with those views, or to ignore them

Thank you for your civil comment.

Sorry, I just may not be capable of giving you the response that you want. Your example is poor for seeing your point of view on the issue. How can it possibly convince me of his military leadership suitability if the guy pumks out before anybody even knew he was gay? I’d love to be consoling and sympathetic here, but in war Dorian? Are you kidding me? I realize things have changed since my day, but I cannot imaging that our enemies are anymore understanding now. I wish the guy the best of luck, but IMO he is weak and needs another career. Now that I think of it, in this circumstance, the chief was the defacto enemy so to speak. Both these people let him win hoping the “system” would come and save them.

It’s a cold world Dorian. If you and your gay friends really want what you want, then by god fight. Don’t seek sympathy through examples of weakness, find examples of strength. Unless you just don’t have any, well then I understand that you are doing the best that you can do.

I remain unconvinced.

I personally dragged an Hispanic man with cut wrists out of the shrubbery and was trying to stop the bleeding when the DI kicked me down, held up the man’s bloody arms giving a lecture on how to cut your wrists properly as the man dangled unconscious. For suicides, research during the Vietnam war alone, (which is all that I can speak of). In my opinion this man does not even know the meaning of humiliation! The “oral sex” incident is where I would have broke and in a similar hazing is exactly where I did break and came out throwing fists expecting to be kicked out of the military. No, that is what they wanted. They wanted to know if I would fight for my dignity, and, I did. From then on they left me alone, but moved their attentions to others in turn. They did things like this to MANY people and it was as common as one thousand 4 count bends and thrusts as punishment for talking without permission. Fart sack beatings, shower hazing, stealing your hog off the hog board and making humiliating sexual innuendo motions with her picture, Gunny Soto urinating into the muddy crawl at motivation platoon while you crawled through it…I don’t have enough room here or memory left to list it all!

My opinion is that this man was weak, gay or not. He could not defend himself when the bullets ran out and it is also my opinion that the unfortunate woman whom killed herself was weak also! How can you defend your country if you are dead?! THANK YOU! Just blow your own brains out and do the enemy’s job for him! SCREWBALL!

Gay or not, you get no sobs from me. Try craping and urinating in your own pants for days because you can’t get out of your fighting hole or uncle Ho’s nephew will ding you. Hope your bullets don’t run out and you have that face to face moment of truth with a flipping K-bar knife. Buckling knees? Give me a flipping break.

I don’t care what this crybaby says, he should NOT be a leader of men in combat. Oh dirty dog pooh….what a crime.

I didn't talke it at all that way, don't worry.

I suspect that such cases are probably more common these days than when I was in the service.

One reason that I was not aware of such cases, or even of gays in my units, might be that my type of assignments were mostly in high security jobs and areas, where and when if one was discovered to be gay, in those days, had serious consequences (such as the loss of security clerances, and worse) because of the fear of blackmail.

Which brings up an interesting and beneficial “side-effect” of our society being more accepting and open about homosexuality: the fact that being gay (or lesbian) is no longer considered such an “abnormal,” “evil”, almost criminal thing, makes gays and lesbians much less susceptible to possible blackmailing or extortion. Interesting!

Dorian

In defense of the U.S. Air Force, however, let me say that in all of the 20 years I spent in that Branch of Service, I not once observed a single case of gay hazing, discrimination or worse.

It is perhaps because of the type of assignments I had, the positions I held, or the culture in the 60s and 70s. For all I know, things may have changed quite a bit since then. I hope not.

Dorian

Anything else cannot be the result of tinking clearly – they are not thoughts.

If Obama doesn't dare to stand up againt the psychotic GOP interest groups (who whitewash their homophobia by rubbing themselves against the bible and keeping christianity hostage) then he is a coward.

He promised to end Don't Ask, Don't Tell. He counseled patience with gay marriage (which he opposes along with the mainstream — Dem politicians, when asked about this yesterday, refused to answer the question, if they supported gay marriage). There's no reason he need wait to try reforming Don't Ask, Don't Tell, and resume making gains by him and other lib Dems in Washington. There's no guarantee it will be ended (or ended quickly), but there's no reason he couldn't approach it sooner rather than later.