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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s Still a Civil Society</title>
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		<title>By: Lbokman</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/48465/its-still-a-civil-society/comment-page-1/#comment-220031</link>
		<dc:creator>Lbokman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 22:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=48465#comment-220031</guid>
		<description>I think part of the reason there is a lack of civility is that many Americans don’t have a good foundation in understanding the ideas and principles that our country was founded on. That ignorance allows propagandists for extreme views to “claim” to be the true believers and protectors of America’s ideals. The problem then is that they then want to deny the legitimacy of opinions that are different from their own. They feel that it is OK, when dealing with people they disagree with, to shout them down and deny them their right to speak. This was true of many of the left wing demonstrators in the 1960’s as it is today of many of the right wingers. There is no difference between them – two sides of the same coin.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thomas Jefferson said, &quot;That differences of opinion should arise among men on politics, on religion and on every other topic of human inquiry, and that these should be freely expressed in a country where all our faculties are free, is to be expected. But these valuable privileges are much perverted when permitted to disturb the harmony of social intercourse, and to lessen the tolerance of opinion.&quot; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I’m an Independent and I agree that the Constitution gives us the right to freedom of speech. However, that also means that, as U.S. citizens, we each have the responsibility to listen. Expanding on Jefferson’s quote, I would say, “We don&#039;t want Americans to be a bunch of perverts!”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think part of the reason there is a lack of civility is that many Americans don’t have a good foundation in understanding the ideas and principles that our country was founded on. That ignorance allows propagandists for extreme views to “claim” to be the true believers and protectors of America’s ideals. The problem then is that they then want to deny the legitimacy of opinions that are different from their own. They feel that it is OK, when dealing with people they disagree with, to shout them down and deny them their right to speak. This was true of many of the left wing demonstrators in the 1960’s as it is today of many of the right wingers. There is no difference between them – two sides of the same coin.</p>
<p>Thomas Jefferson said, &#8220;That differences of opinion should arise among men on politics, on religion and on every other topic of human inquiry, and that these should be freely expressed in a country where all our faculties are free, is to be expected. But these valuable privileges are much perverted when permitted to disturb the harmony of social intercourse, and to lessen the tolerance of opinion.&#8221; </p>
<p>I’m an Independent and I agree that the Constitution gives us the right to freedom of speech. However, that also means that, as U.S. citizens, we each have the responsibility to listen. Expanding on Jefferson’s quote, I would say, “We don&#39;t want Americans to be a bunch of perverts!”</p>
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		<title>By: Leonidas</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/48465/its-still-a-civil-society/comment-page-1/#comment-219962</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonidas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 17:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=48465#comment-219962</guid>
		<description>Cable TV has a lot to do with it IMHO.  With a channel for every niche market, someone is going to shout out to the far-right and far-left.  This is not a bad thing as all views should be considered, even if laughed at after consideration.  Give them their 2 minutes, laugh and move on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cable TV has a lot to do with it IMHO.  With a channel for every niche market, someone is going to shout out to the far-right and far-left.  This is not a bad thing as all views should be considered, even if laughed at after consideration.  Give them their 2 minutes, laugh and move on.</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/48465/its-still-a-civil-society/comment-page-1/#comment-219947</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 16:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=48465#comment-219947</guid>
		<description>Most of the people I come into every day contact with (in the midsized midwestern city where I work) seem decent and reasonable. Of course the exceptions to this tend to be more visible and the noisier people command more attention - as they always have, so it&#039;s easy to imagine things might be worse than they are. That said, the more thoughtful and rational sensibilities that were taken for granted when my parents generation held sway, seem to be less common nowadays. I believe that can be traced to the growth of a culture in which &lt;I&gt;perceptions&lt;/I&gt; have come to be given greater weight than the realities, and as JD has observed, we seem to be a more selfish society in many ways.  Needless to say, the &quot;media&quot; loves a low signal to noise ratio and the public buys into the distractions they endlessly throw out there. So yeah, I guess there&#039;s still room for improvement. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most of the people I come into every day contact with (in the midsized midwestern city where I work) seem decent and reasonable. Of course the exceptions to this tend to be more visible and the noisier people command more attention &#8211; as they always have, so it&#39;s easy to imagine things might be worse than they are. That said, the more thoughtful and rational sensibilities that were taken for granted when my parents generation held sway, seem to be less common nowadays. I believe that can be traced to the growth of a culture in which <i>perceptions</i> have come to be given greater weight than the realities, and as JD has observed, we seem to be a more selfish society in many ways.  Needless to say, the &#8220;media&#8221; loves a low signal to noise ratio and the public buys into the distractions they endlessly throw out there. So yeah, I guess there&#39;s still room for improvement. <img src='http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: JeffersonDavis</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/48465/its-still-a-civil-society/comment-page-1/#comment-219926</link>
		<dc:creator>JeffersonDavis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 15:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=48465#comment-219926</guid>
		<description>Awesome piece, Jazz (as usual).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But I don&#039;t think it&#039;s all flowers and pansies out there.&lt;br&gt;I believe that most Americans lack basic civility you find in other nations.  A drive down the interstate, a line in a bank, the fact that neighbors don&#039;t look out for each other any more, or a even the attendance of a protest......You&#039;ll find that normal Americans seem to have lost common courtesy and etiquette.  It&#039;s just not being taught at home any more.  There&#039;s no one home to teach it and we&#039;ve become a very selfish generation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome piece, Jazz (as usual).</p>
<p>But I don&#39;t think it&#39;s all flowers and pansies out there.<br />I believe that most Americans lack basic civility you find in other nations.  A drive down the interstate, a line in a bank, the fact that neighbors don&#39;t look out for each other any more, or a even the attendance of a protest&#8230;&#8230;You&#39;ll find that normal Americans seem to have lost common courtesy and etiquette.  It&#39;s just not being taught at home any more.  There&#39;s no one home to teach it and we&#39;ve become a very selfish generation.</p>
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		<title>By: GeorgeSorwell</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/48465/its-still-a-civil-society/comment-page-1/#comment-219919</link>
		<dc:creator>GeorgeSorwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 14:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=48465#comment-219919</guid>
		<description>After a summer of screaming comes an autumn of claims that the screaming was no big deal. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Oh, well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After a summer of screaming comes an autumn of claims that the screaming was no big deal. </p>
<p>Oh, well.</p>
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		<title>By: Polimom</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/48465/its-still-a-civil-society/comment-page-1/#comment-219912</link>
		<dc:creator>Polimom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 13:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=48465#comment-219912</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a good piece Jazz.  Had to laugh at the thought of aliens evaluating our society from afar via radio programs (as you point out, a staple of SciFi literature).  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I wanted to call out this line, though, for special mention (though it&#039;s off your point):&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;em&gt;&quot;So how many people are truly getting all “wee-weed” up in the political arena?&quot;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Is anybody but me astounded by how quickly this term has passed into the lexicon?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#39;s a good piece Jazz.  Had to laugh at the thought of aliens evaluating our society from afar via radio programs (as you point out, a staple of SciFi literature).  </p>
<p>I wanted to call out this line, though, for special mention (though it&#39;s off your point):</p>
<p><em>&#8220;So how many people are truly getting all “wee-weed” up in the political arena?&#8221;</em></p>
<p>Is anybody but me astounded by how quickly this term has passed into the lexicon?</p>
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		<title>By: nicrivera</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/48465/its-still-a-civil-society/comment-page-1/#comment-219911</link>
		<dc:creator>nicrivera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 13:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=48465#comment-219911</guid>
		<description>Part of the problem with the name-calling and the shouting is indeed a lack of civility.  Yet I would argue that a lack of civility is nothing new.  It&#039;s just that in today&#039;s world, with twenty-four hour news networks, countless radio stations, and almost universal access to the internet, incivility now has powerful medium to bring it to the forefront like never before.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I would argue, the a major part of the problem, however, is that Americans have lost the ability to craft arguments to make their point as well as an appreciation for honest debate.  It&#039;s as if we don&#039;t know how how to conduct an honest debate.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In high school English class, one of our most common assignments was writing essays.  Sometimes, we were given two weeks to complete the assignment, and therefore had considerable time to conduct the research needed to write the essay.  Other times, we had to complete the essay in the fly, with only fifty minutes to draw from our knowledge in order to quickly complete te essay.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Now, what do you think would have happened if I had turned in a sheet of paper saying &quot;Ernest Hemmingway was a Communist&quot;?  Do you think I would have received a passing grade for that &quot;essay&quot;?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Of course not.  I would have failed the assignment.  And not only that, anyone who had learned that I turn in such garbage would either concluded that I didn&#039;t know how to write an essay, or that I knew how to write as essay but didn&#039;t take the assignment seriously.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What if, instead, I had written &quot;Ernest Hemmingway was a Communist&quot;, and then had written a two page essay in which I had drawn several quotes for Hemmingway&#039;s various works in order to buttress my claim?  In the end, a reader might not necessarily agree with my argument, but at least they could agree that I had made an argument, and they, inturn, could have made a counter-argument.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But on the cable news networks, talk radio, and the blogosphere, honest debate is not what we see.  Instead we hear soundbytes and ad-hominem attacks that don&#039;t represent coherent arguments.  Every four years, we have presidential &quot;debates&quot; in which old talking points are rehashed and no new arguments are made.  Indeed, in today&#039;s presidential &quot;debates&quot;, the debaters are not even allowed to cross examine each other!  Go ahead and read the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nps.gov/liho/historyculture/debates.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Lincoln-Douglas debates&lt;/a&gt; of the 1850&#039;s, and you&#039;ll see that they resemble nothing of today&#039;s &quot;debates.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;How many of you have ever listened to a talk radio exchange in which the radio host shouted out a string of epithets and ad-homimen attacks, and then the next listener to call in complimented the radio host, cheering, &quot;You sure showed him!&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What did he show him?  He didn&#039;t make an argument!  He didn&#039;t state any facts!  Or if he did, they were, they were tangential to the overall argument he was trying to make.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I remember once listening to Rush Limbaugh&#039;s radio show on a day in which Roger Hitchcock was filling in for him, and during a particular exchange, he made a comment that I absolutely couldn&#039;t believe he would make.  Now, in Hitchcock&#039;s defense, he was actually pretty calm during the exchange, but that&#039;s probably because the exchange was between him and a nonhostile caller.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The exchange went something like this.  The listener complained that a Hillary Clinton was criticizing the War in Iraq.  Hitchcock then replied, &quot;What do you expect?  She&#039;s a socialist.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sean Hannity made a similar comment about anti-war protester on his radio show back in 2003.  As if being a socialist has anything to do with criticizing a war.  It doesn&#039;t make any sense!  The former Soviet Union was &lt;i&gt;filled&lt;/i&gt; with socialists, and that didn&#039;t seem to stop them from carrying out several wars!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But this is what passes for &quot;debate&quot; in today&#039;s world.  Politicians and pundits appeal to people&#039;s emotions instead of appealing to reason, and it continues because they are rewarded for it.  Meanwhile, taking the time to make a comprehensive argument is discouraged, either by time constraints or by cable news/radio hosts shouting over the few people who are attempting to have an honest debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of the problem with the name-calling and the shouting is indeed a lack of civility.  Yet I would argue that a lack of civility is nothing new.  It&#39;s just that in today&#39;s world, with twenty-four hour news networks, countless radio stations, and almost universal access to the internet, incivility now has powerful medium to bring it to the forefront like never before.</p>
<p>I would argue, the a major part of the problem, however, is that Americans have lost the ability to craft arguments to make their point as well as an appreciation for honest debate.  It&#39;s as if we don&#39;t know how how to conduct an honest debate.</p>
<p>In high school English class, one of our most common assignments was writing essays.  Sometimes, we were given two weeks to complete the assignment, and therefore had considerable time to conduct the research needed to write the essay.  Other times, we had to complete the essay in the fly, with only fifty minutes to draw from our knowledge in order to quickly complete te essay.</p>
<p>Now, what do you think would have happened if I had turned in a sheet of paper saying &#8220;Ernest Hemmingway was a Communist&#8221;?  Do you think I would have received a passing grade for that &#8220;essay&#8221;?</p>
<p>Of course not.  I would have failed the assignment.  And not only that, anyone who had learned that I turn in such garbage would either concluded that I didn&#39;t know how to write an essay, or that I knew how to write as essay but didn&#39;t take the assignment seriously.</p>
<p>What if, instead, I had written &#8220;Ernest Hemmingway was a Communist&#8221;, and then had written a two page essay in which I had drawn several quotes for Hemmingway&#39;s various works in order to buttress my claim?  In the end, a reader might not necessarily agree with my argument, but at least they could agree that I had made an argument, and they, inturn, could have made a counter-argument.</p>
<p>But on the cable news networks, talk radio, and the blogosphere, honest debate is not what we see.  Instead we hear soundbytes and ad-hominem attacks that don&#39;t represent coherent arguments.  Every four years, we have presidential &#8220;debates&#8221; in which old talking points are rehashed and no new arguments are made.  Indeed, in today&#39;s presidential &#8220;debates&#8221;, the debaters are not even allowed to cross examine each other!  Go ahead and read the <a href="http://www.nps.gov/liho/historyculture/debates.htm" rel="nofollow">Lincoln-Douglas debates</a> of the 1850&#39;s, and you&#39;ll see that they resemble nothing of today&#39;s &#8220;debates.&#8221;</p>
<p>How many of you have ever listened to a talk radio exchange in which the radio host shouted out a string of epithets and ad-homimen attacks, and then the next listener to call in complimented the radio host, cheering, &#8220;You sure showed him!&#8221;</p>
<p>What did he show him?  He didn&#39;t make an argument!  He didn&#39;t state any facts!  Or if he did, they were, they were tangential to the overall argument he was trying to make.</p>
<p>I remember once listening to Rush Limbaugh&#39;s radio show on a day in which Roger Hitchcock was filling in for him, and during a particular exchange, he made a comment that I absolutely couldn&#39;t believe he would make.  Now, in Hitchcock&#39;s defense, he was actually pretty calm during the exchange, but that&#39;s probably because the exchange was between him and a nonhostile caller.</p>
<p>The exchange went something like this.  The listener complained that a Hillary Clinton was criticizing the War in Iraq.  Hitchcock then replied, &#8220;What do you expect?  She&#39;s a socialist.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sean Hannity made a similar comment about anti-war protester on his radio show back in 2003.  As if being a socialist has anything to do with criticizing a war.  It doesn&#39;t make any sense!  The former Soviet Union was <i>filled</i> with socialists, and that didn&#39;t seem to stop them from carrying out several wars!</p>
<p>But this is what passes for &#8220;debate&#8221; in today&#39;s world.  Politicians and pundits appeal to people&#39;s emotions instead of appealing to reason, and it continues because they are rewarded for it.  Meanwhile, taking the time to make a comprehensive argument is discouraged, either by time constraints or by cable news/radio hosts shouting over the few people who are attempting to have an honest debate.</p>
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