Comments on: Obama on tax hikes: deceptive or just uneducated?

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Cheap Car Insurance In Texas ... Compare Only the Best — Wed, 23 Sep 2009 23:50:33 +0000

[...] Obama on tax hikes: deceptive or just uneducated? (themoderatevoice.com) Related Posts [...]

By: Rambie

Rambie — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:53:30 +0000

I posed this in the older thread:

Tidbits: "Call it a tax. Call it a fine. Call it a penalty. Call it a mandate... The proposals coming out of Congress are enhancement and enrichment bills for the insurance industry,"

Exactly!

Getting true healthcare reform isn't going to be free or "budget neutral". That's like making a perpetual motion machine, it's not going to happen. Real reform (not this enrichment of the insurance industry farce) is going to take some money.

Instead of fighting over if it's a "tax" or not, why not discuss ways to have REAL insurance reform and how to pay for it.

By: DaveVentura

DaveVentura — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:21:01 +0000

I think it is quite fair to say that Obama is lying giving how the Baucus bill explicitly states there's an “excise tax” with the IRS as the enforcer. If Obama wont discuss honestly, all it does is lower the quality of the debate and confuse people. If Obama had been honest about there being tax we wouldn't be debating whether there is a tax or not and could instead be debating whether the tax is good or bad and what the implications are for Obama breaking his campaign promise not to raise taxes on those making less than $250K per year, particularly during a recession.

By: Patterico’s Pontifications » Obama: Healthcare mandate is not a tax BECAUSE I SAID SO

Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:42:30 +0000

[...] Steve Benen may groove on that sort of newspeak, but not even the left-leaning Moderate Voice’s Jazz Shaw was buying it. During the George H.W. Bush administration there was a “duck test” for taxes and [...]

By: The Greenroom » Forum Archive » Obama: Healthcare mandate is not a tax BECAUSE I SAID SO

Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:40:12 +0000

[...] Benen may groove on that sort of newspeak, but not even the left-leaning Moderate Voice’s Jazz Shaw was buying it. During the George H.W. Bush administration there was a “duck test” for [...]

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The Auburn Cord Duesenberg Museum | Classic Mini Cooper — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 13:00:27 +0000

[...] Obama on tax hikes: deceptive or just uneducated? (themoderatevoice.com) [...]

By: Leonidas

Leonidas — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 02:24:10 +0000

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3QqO8EXd-II/Saari9OgC...

By: pacatrue

pacatrue — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 01:15:37 +0000

It seems like all political dialogue takes place this way. Instead of saying, “Obama is making a distinction about taxation that I disagree with”, we get “Obama is lying, ignorant, or stupid (because I disagree with the distinction).” Anyway, I take your point that some people will be forced to spend money they have not chosen to spend.

By: ChrisWWW

ChrisWWW — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 00:11:49 +0000

Jazz,
You're right that the mandate is pseudo-tax on some people that are well off but don't currently pay into our health insurance system. But on the other side. low-income families will get government subsidies to lessen the burden. But if the system works right, we'll all pay less through cost-sharing that isn't currently possible if people only buy into the system once they get sick.

Rather than play "gotcha" politics like Stephenopolous, we should be discussing whether or not the mandate makes sense as policy. Same goes for the cap & trade system.

After all, we all know why Obama didn't promise to raise taxes. It's not because taxes are too high already (they are incredibly low historically, especially for the wealthy). It's because the Republicans have convinced large numbers of the population that we can have generous social services without paying for them. That doesn't let Obama off the hook for lying, but I think a little context is helpful.

By: Almoderate

Almoderate — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 00:09:51 +0000

Here's the rub, and its' something you kinda glazed over...

Either people pay for their own health care, or...
YOU pay for their health care.

That's the point the president was making here.

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Sun, 20 Sep 2009 20:37:43 +0000

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