CNN’s Sanchez, ABC’s Trapper and CBS to FOX News: You Lie
Anyone who has worked in the media knows about a “fatal” in a story: it’s an error so big that if it isn’t corrected fast and prominently, it can discredit the info-outlet that carries it. This is the kind of error newspapers correct on the front page (versus some of the bigger ones buried inside). Fox News — the network that says it provides fair and accurate reporting — is now being blasted by CNN’s Rick Sanchez, ABC’s Jake Trapper and CBS News for an ad that they say contains a huge …fatal.
Watch Sanchez’s report below. As Sanchez has done in the past, he replies to an allegation by showing a batch of clips that makes the case that the assertion is…a fatal. One of the quotes he shows is even from that famous liberal and noted CNN booster Bill O’Reilly — Fox News’ cash cow and one of its hottest properties. O’Reilly is also highly competitive and often critical of MSNBC and CNN. Watch this in full:
And Trapper? The Politico:
Jake Tapper, on Twitter this morning, took issue with a Fox News ad in today’s Washington Post, that he says is “asserting that every other channel ‘missed’ the story of the 912 march. Demonstrably untrue.”
He pointed out that Yunji de Nies, his ABC colleague at the White House, covered last weekend’s protest.
But even that wasn’t enough for some, and after a back and forth on Twitter, Tapper wrote that it was his “last tweet defending a fact.”
“To the non-reality based community, have a great day and nice weekend,” he wrote.
UPDATE: The ad — now added above — isn’t just false when it comes to ABC, but other networks, too. It should be noted that CNN sent more than a dozen personnel to the event, including deputy political director Paul Steinhauser, Jim Spellman, and Lisa Desjardins (whose appearance in front of shouting protesters made the rounds on YouTube since Saturday). NBC and CBS were also on hand to cover the event.
So Tapper was right to call the Fox ad “demonstrably untrue” — which it is if you’re talking about physically being there. Nevertheless, Michael Tammero, Fox’s VP of Marketing explains to TVNewser: “Generally speaking, it’s fair to say that from the tea party movement … to Acorn … to the march on 9/12, the networks either ignored the story, marginalized it or misrepresented the significance of it altogether.”
And the Politico has a statement from CBS that also says Fox News committed….a…fatal since CBS “had multiple crews on site with our Congressional Correspondent Nancy Cordes reporting. It was the lead story on the CBS EVENING NEWS; CBS Radio News provided hourly reports and CBSNews.com had the story in its rotating lead all day. They also processed the Nancy Cordes video and linked it throughout the site.”
Howard Kurtz of the Washington Post, one of the papers that ran the ad, has an extensive story about this controversy. He writes:
The ad appeared Friday in the Wall Street Journal and New York Post, both owned by Fox’s parent company, and in The Washington Post.
ABC spokesman Jeffrey Schneider described the ad as “outrageous and false.” NBC spokeswoman Lauren Kapp said that “the facts . . . prove it wrong.” CNN spokeswoman Edie Emery called the ad “blatantly false.”
Fox News provided more coverage than other news outlets in the run-up to what Beck branded the “9/12″ protests, but the other networks hardly ignored the story. ABC, for instance, covered it Saturday and Sunday on “Good Morning America” and Sunday on “World News,” along with extensive reports by ABC Radio and the network’s Web site. NBC covered it Saturday on “Nightly News” and the next morning on “Today.” CBS covered it on the “Evening News.” CNN covered the Saturday protests during the 10 a.m., 11 a.m., 5 p.m. and 7 p.m. hours, as well as on other programs afterward. Correspondents such as NBC’s Tom Costello, ABC’s Kate Snow and CBS’s Nancy Cordes were involved in the coverage.
Fox’s view is that the ad refers to the other networks’ missing the larger story, not failing to cover the demonstration itself — although the photos suggest that the headline refers to the protest. “Generally speaking,” Michael Tammero, Fox News’s vice president of marketing, said in a statement, “it’s fair to say that from the tea party movement . . . to ACORN . . . to the march on 9/12, the networks either ignored the story, marginalized it or misrepresented the significance of it altogether.”
There is no evidence that The Post asked Fox for any substantiation. Ken Babby, Washington Post Media’s vice president for advertising, declined to be interviewed.
Read it in full. The fact that the Post is covering it and the sentence:”There is no evidence that The Post asked Fox for any substantiation. Ken Babby, Washington Post Media’s vice president for advertising, declined to be interviewed” suggests that this did not turn out to be just another ad. Kurtz also quotes the Post’s spokeswoman as defending the ad, saying it was Fox News’ opinion of how it covered the story compared to its competitors.
But ABC doesn’t see it as that simple:
ABC’s Schneider, however, told the newspaper in a letter that The Post exercised “zero due diligence” in assessing the truth of the ad and that it “should have been rejected according to your professed standards. Now the Post should make it right by apologizing quickly and recognizing that it made a grave error that tarnishes the reputation of five other news organizations.”
Some thoughts:
UPDATE:
– From Variety’s Wilshire and Washington blog:
CNN anchor Rick Sanchez took on Fox News after the network ran an ad in the Washington Post today with a picture of last weekend’s 9/12 protests on Capitol Hill and the headline, “How did ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN miss this story.”
In fact, the broadcast news networks and CNN did cover the event, but Sanchez is by far the most vocal, taking on a tone of indignation at the CNN competitor.
In a tone that had shades of Olbermann, “I am not going to sit here in silence and allow my craft and my news operation to be unfairly maligned, because enough is enough. And yes, I am talking about you Fox News, you who claim to be fair and balanced. At what, I wonder?”
….Few other recent events seem to have stirred such a challenge over basic facts, starting with the original contention that the event drew up to 2 million, quickly challenged and even corrected to a fraction of that.
Today, Fox News took out a full page ad in the Washington Post as well as the News Corp.-owned Wall Street Journal and New York Post asking, “How did ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN Miss This Story?”
Well, those other networks were there.
And TV Newser packs its post with data about how — despite the fair and balanced network’s assertions, — the other networks were there and didn’t just pay lip service to story. Here’s just one of the sections:
NBC News had crews on the mall and correspondent Tom Costello reported live for NBC Nightly News Saturday. A Nightly News spokesperson tells TVNewser, “and more than 5.2 million viewers watched our coverage.” It was Weekend Nightly’s best Total Viewer delivery since April. MSNBC covered the gathering Saturday morning getting live shots from a reporter from NBC-owned WRC-TV.
ABC News was there too with reports for Good Morning America Saturday and Sunday. Kate Snow interviewed GOP Sen. Jim DeMint who was a speaker at the rally. ABCNews.com even had to correct a report about the number of attendees which was erroneously attributed to the network. Matt Kibbe of FreedomWorks, the organizer of the event, made that claim. He would later say, “I regret misrepresenting the network as [ABC's] coverage that day was fair and honest.” And from NoonET Saturday to NoonET Sunday, ABC News Radio referenced the rally in 69 separate newscasts.
Read it in full.
79 Responses to “CNN’s Sanchez, ABC’s Trapper and CBS to FOX News: You Lie”
There's a photo of the 9/12 event taken from the top of the Capitol by Michael Beck that speaks around half-a-million to 700,000 attendees. Tapper & others tried to debunk other photos by saying they had black faces and represented The Million Man March led by Obama's fave spiritual leader. But you'll notice a lot of white ladies in baseball caps and American flags in the linked photo, so I doubt it was the usual scurvy crew. Yeah, it had to be photoshopped because the “Surreal World” types think they are “reality-based.” Probably their medications are the only real thing in that mindset.
Plus they cleaned up after themselves, unlike the barnyard manners of the “anti-war” unpatriots.
There's a photo of the 9/12 event taken from the top of the Capitol by Michael Beck that speaks around half-a-million to 700,000 attendees. Tapper & others tried to debunk other photos by saying they had black faces and represented The Million Man March led by Obama's fave spiritual leader. But you'll notice a lot of white ladies in baseball caps and American flags in the linked photo, so I doubt it was the usual scurvy crew. Yeah, it had to be photoshopped because the “Surreal World” types think they are “reality-based.” Probably their medications are the only real thing in that mindset.
Plus they cleaned up after themselves, unlike the barnyard manners of the “anti-war” unpatriots.
Oops, the edit button disappeared a minute after posting. Repaired version below….
The medium is the message? The medium is the massage.
Did they cover the event as much as Fox, certainly not, did they miss it, no.
The Ad should have been on the ACORN story instead that the other networks did mostly miss for quite some time.
I'm kinda surprised that the little tea event got as much coverage as it did. After all, the reputable-reported turnout was much smaller than expected (under a hundred thousand) and by all appearances it was somewhat of a flop of an event. I know the various news media outlets feel they have to have “balanced” coverage, but bending over backwards to spend so much covering such a minor, inconsequential event is going a little too far.
Having attended a numer of sold out U of M football games, I was amazed to see so many more than the 105,000 people the stadium held when I attended. A local policeman who has worked D.C. a number of years said that we were the nicest crowd he had ever worked. He estimated that there were over a million people there. So I was really pumped up to find out what was on TV about this momentous event. I called my family back in California – at 12:00 Noon E.T. There was little or nothing on about the event. I was amazed. This was ground breaking. I went back to the hotel after the 9-12 March and was Amazed that there was almost nothing on about the event except for Genn Beck later in the evening in a repeat. It was very depressing to read the next day in the press that there were 60 to 70 thousand at the event by some “unnamed” source at the D.C. Fire Department. We had seen with our own eyes hundreds of thousands of people and then read and heard 60 to 70 K. The question came to many of us like a slap in the face: If they lie to us who were there and saw with our very own eyes, in this city, what the Hel# do they lie to use about that we don't see? Does anything truthful come out of Washington D.C.?
My responsibility was to let press and speakers into the area where the stage and cameras were set up. I met reporters from around the world. Interestingly some of ours wore jackets with holes in the elbows that looked like they just crawled out of a dumpster. I could only imagine what they would say. The main stream press is not main stream any longer. As the people walked by the CNN bus type vehicle they chanted “Communists News Network” in loud chants over and over. All of the reportes seemed to have no protection except the CNN reporter seem to have a shadow of two policemen that were evidently there for protection. No one else did.
After returning home and watching the taped coverage of this momentous event, I can truly say that those who attended were enraged by the coverage, the lack of coverage and how the press didn't speak to the everyday people but just walked around in the packed together people to take pictures of the most off-the-wall signs and then make it look like everyone carried one like the one pictured. They never showed the old man in a wheel chair with a sign setting on the ground, propped up against his knees, his hands resting on the top that said: “Vet. I fought for my country and now I must fight for it again.”
Lastly, regarding the signs: The people paid there own way, unlike union employees bused in. There were 450 buses from all over (Easy to check out with Police). Metro ticket sales were swamped (public knolwedge), and yes there were some fantastic signs. Never have I seen so many different ones. Yes, there were a couple with President Obama with a little patch of hair on his lip. Whe I saw these I thought about when I used to scream and rage at my TV as I saw the same with President George W. Bush. Then I understood how they felt like they needed a way to express their anger, to let off some steam because they felt like things were out of control and that they had little that could be done to change the course of events. For the first time I cut those who carried these signs some slack becaue I realized that we are all pretty much the same. We have a lot of overlap in our nation (just let someone attack us and see how much). But we have some at the edges that are trying to pull the middle apart. We must learn to reason, again, and most importantly of all – we must learn to be flexible again. Just like an old tree branch, if we don't bend we will break. Let's not allow the fringes break us apart from our common love for our country. We all want good health insurance and for everyone. What we don't want on the conservative side is another 53 government agencies with a political voting class that will be hired to work for those agencies and will be paid out of the American pocket. Regarding the press, I no longer believe the American press. It is too much like propaganda. I spoke to a reporter from Sweeden in D.C. and decided to look over seas for the Tea Party March on Washington. I found better knews from them because they were not trying to marganalize the movement as ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC and CNN were. I will say that CNN had the best coverage, in some ways, then even Fox. I was surprised that there were fair and did show the size of the crowds. I just wished that they would have respected us by not showing 15 second blips of outrageous signs. They needed to actually do interviews with people but that is not what news people do any longer. They just want a sound bite that can be used either pro or against you. I will say this: We The People absolutely do NOT trust the press now. We don't just believe they are marganelizing the Tea Party Patriot movment. They have an agenda that leads to their Progressive beliefs. They can't help it. They think they are balanced, but the truth is their teeter totter is sitting on the ground on the end they are sitting on and the American people are not going to give them a helping hand by putting weight on the other end. We are pretty much finished with them. Now there are too many sources where you can find the truth – just not normally in the Old Main Stream Press.
[...] are coming for the Democrats on their blind side — the left.The evidence is everywhere.At CNN’s Sanchez, ABC’s Trapper and CBS to FOX News: You Lie – themoderatevoice.com 09/19/2009 Anyone who has worked in the media knows about a [...]
It's obvious you were not in D.C. Never in my lifetime have I seen so many people. You just can't imagine what it is like to stand at the front of them, hearing them all raise their voice at the same time. There was electricity in the air. The people were all respectful, especially to the elderly, and so were the police. As we left the event, we thanked them for keeping everyone safe. There was not one arrest and there were at least a million people, or very close, there. You would only be able to understand it if you looked out and every place was taken and the people were standing up the streets leading to the Capitol because there was no place to stand. Many people could not get into the city because the roads were so packed.
People were still coming into the afternoon, who had driven for hours. It was a friendly group and everyone was in a festive and friendly mood. Only some of the press were somewhat booed because people are on to them now – no matter what they say in front of the camera. CNN did have one of the better cover ages I only wish that I could see tapes of all the channels. Some did absolutely nothing, but I don't expect them to last long-term. Their audience is becoming a fringe group. I speak of MSNBC. I watch all the channels each day. They are listed in a matrix of 8 cable news channels. I can move around in the matrix to get the sound on each one. This is on Direct TV, which many readers will have and understand. I have to say that I never get any news out of MSNBC but they are better than Saturday Night Live in making me laugh. It makes the day fun because news can get a little depressing. I doubt they will last long-term though. They have just become ding dong over there.
Sanchez who? Really tho it's marketing. Fox does it of course but thern so does CNN and for gods sake NBC and the rest. They make (fox) a point that they are covering the events differently than the other networks. Indepth reporting vs. 30 sec blurbs. It's a fair statment for an advertisment.
How would a news organization guarantee balance? Would it screen its employees prior to hiring them, give them a one-hundred point questionnaire on their political views, including what party they belonged to? I suspect that if such a questionnaire was done, Fox would have 99% Republicans, MSNBC 98% Democrats, and CNN probably 80% Dem and 20% Republican. So of course their political views affect how they “see” the world, including the Tea Party movement.
The 9/12 protest actually got an unprecedented amount of coverage for how few people were there. There were multiple anti-war protests in the US over the last 7-8 years with at least 5 times as many people that got a fraction as much airtime (and typically were on something like page A31 of the WaPo and NYTimes, not A1 as this story was with both).
[...] CNN’s Sanchez, ABC’s Trapper and CBS to FOX News: You Lie (themoderatevoice.com) [...]
The photo Dave In Boca is referring to is from the Promise Keepers rally held in 1997.
Lies like this never get debunked because too many people who don't care about the truth want to believe them.
That's why Fox News is still in business.
Thanks George for finding what I was looking for. Another “picture” purported to be from the 912 event circulated on many right leaning web sites actually shows a building missing.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/14/912-te…
Of course,it's now being circulated that the photo surfaced due to a left wing plant. If you look closely at the photo, you can just make out Obama's fake birth certificate.
Like so much of this protest, the facts tend to be extraneous to the furor.
Fox News is crap. I stopped watching it years ago exactly for the reasons expressed here. Fox is political tabloid TV, a waste of time.
We need objective news in order to form our own opinion, not promotions in support of an existing opinion.
Fox is just fast-food “McNews” for the lazy.
Waaah we don't get more attention liberal media waaaah…
Publishing this ad is a stroke of genius.
Fox is not in the news business. Fox is in the business of pandering to its audience. Attacks on Fox by the so-called mainstream media only reinforce their audience's loyalty.
There will be no significant consequences for this ad.
And you can prove that how? I think you should read DesertCactus to get an on-site appraisal. I too am a U of M grad and I was at the Vietnam March in the seventies. I wonder why you participate in Groupthink like all the nets and cables except Fox? Or don't you think DesertC's lyin' eyes should be trusted.
You pollute the name of a great man. Unless you are trying to conflate Orwell with Soros, regarded as a criminal in the UK.
You ravers ignore the fact that Fox destroyed ACORN, or are you part of the RICO scheme that ACORN and the DNC were trying to foist on the US? Numbers indicate :Fox has more viewers [partly because they allow the opposing viewpoint aired] that all the other primetime combined. So Sore-well is right. When a news operation busts Rev. Wright as Brobambi's “spiritual father” and outs ACORN as a RICO racketeering operation, the heat from agitpreppies like him and the usual suspects will be directed front and center. Brobambi is going to be on five or six news “interviews” this weekend, and I'll bet not one asks about the missile shield debacle or ACORN. He's not going on Fox, because they DO ask tough questions.
The Sore-well Groupthiinkeers [as in Mickey Mouse] want to play pattycake in their own little sandbox. Putin is laughing on his way to bank Brobambi's giveaway in Poland & Czech Republic and if it weren't for Fox, my taxpayer dollars would still be funding ACORN's tax-cheat operation—like Geithner & Daschle & all the other Dems [Rangel comes to mind] who want to tax everyone else and neglect their own IRS obligations.
The real reality-based community watches Fox, and y'all can call yourselves anything you want.
Oh, and thanks for the reality check, DesertCactus.
I'd take that bet if I thought there was a sliver of a chance you would actually honor it.
And “Brobambi”? Are there any conservatives left over the age of 8?
Misperceptions, the Media and the Iraq War
Misperception Xref with Media Outlet
Fox is not a news organization, it's the Republican Party's propaganda outlet.
Daveinboca, “brobambi”?? Look sir, you can disagree all you want with President Obama. But the whole “I'm going to think of unique, nonsensical slurs to diminish him” angle is just childish. Please cease with that. And I'm well aware of the “bro”. Just plain dumb, sir. We'll all adults here (mostly) and I hate being the comment police but c'mon! Brobambi?!?! I think I need to add that phrase to the ban list.
And that is just a general rule to all TMV commenters (who are vastly more civil than many other commenters at other blogs).
Fox is not news, its a propaganda network. It's viewers are conspiracy theorists, they do not accept reality nor do they share our common reality. Much like all conspiracy theorists they refuse to listen to truth nor evidence that disputes their point. In fact this “news” network has just been caught LIEING, again a NEWS network has used a blatant LIE that has been disproven and those who back Fox will not only refuse to hold them responsible, they are now saying that it should have been covered more so they are “kinda” right. There is no kinda right in news, kinda right is called propaganda. Fox and its viewers would be trying to close any organization but themselves that pulled this but instead they choose to move the goal posts and say “well maybe they covered our self created movement but they should have covered it more because now we look even more biased then the media we use as an excuse for our extreme slant on the news.” I beg of you please turn them off, please join the rest of your countrymen in reality and leave the propagandists to spin into their own self created graves. Otherwise accept that you are the new version of a truther, because you will not accept reality or evidence either.
Definition of a conspiracy theorist “A theory seeking to explain a disputed case or matter as a plot by a secret group or alliance rather than an individual or isolated act.”
The following panorama shot has been cited by the right as proof that the mainstream media estimates of 60 to 70 thousand people at the 9/12 march are completely bogus.
http://iowntheworld.com/blog/wp-content/uploads…
Calling up a Google map of this area might help in spotting streets and landmarks.
What does the panorama actually show? The back of the main body of the crowd is at 3rd St. where two blue buses can be seen. These are easily visible in the center of this crowd picture: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2633/3914299074_…
Traffic is also visible on this road. From that point back to the white tents near the Washington Monument is lots of empty green grass. The white tents were part of another event and people back there had no connection to the 9/12 demonstration. Similarly, in the panorama, the crowd can be seen ending at 3rd Street on both Maryland Ave and Pennsylvania Ave. The sides of the crowd were in the park areas between those two avenues and Independence Ave and Constitution Ave.
The main body of the crowd occupied park areas within Capitol Circle. Not completely though. Green fences can be seen restraining the crowd above the words “prevail” and “to set brush” in the panorama quote. The walkways towards the capitol were also kept clear and the clear path towards Garfield Circle is visible. Lots of cars can be seen parked on Maryland Ave, between the Capitol and 3rd St., and I presume the same was true for Pennsylvania Ave. Above the trees in front of the Museum for the American Indian, lots of green grass is visible. Above the words “keen to” a large space of pavement near Peace Circle is visible. All of this shows that the crowd did not “fill” this entire area.
According to my calculations from the scale on Google maps, the distance from Independence Ave to Constitution Ave is about 1650 feet and the distance from the curved edge of the pavement at the capitol to 3rd St. is about 1250 feet. Within that area is the reflecting pool which is about 350 x 800 feet.
1650 x 1250 = 2,062,500 square feet less 280,000 square feet for the reflecting pool = 1,782,500 square feet. We also need to take out about 102,400 square feet for the Botanical Garden which leaves 1,680,100 square feet. From that we also need to remove a significant amount of space for trees, statues, hedges, gardens, open paths, fenced off areas etc. Let's simplify and assume we have 1,600,000 square feet of “demonstrator space”. To get this number I have removed 22,300 square feet less than the area of the Botanical Garden. Given some of the constraints already mentioned, I think I am being very generous.
Some people say we should assume 6 square feet per person in the crowd. Bear in mind, that would be a 2.45 foot square for every person in the crowd.
6 square feet per person gives a crowd of 266,666 people and that would be the very highest end estimate. But, is 6 square feet per person reasonable?
Look at pictures and videos from within the demonstration itself, here:
http://novatownhall.com/2009/09/13/photos-of-9-…
What do we see? Lots and lots of empty pavement space, and lots of people taking up room with their big signs and flags. People are constantly shown, within the demonstration area, easily moving around. They are nowhere near as packed in as the fans in this stadium picture of 100,000+ people.
http://pennstategameday.com/wp-content/uploads/…
At about 3:18 in the second video we see that the police have cordoned off a large pavement area near the Peace Circle that I noted above. I presume it was the same over at Garfield Circle. Once again, we see that assuming the outlined area is packed with people is in error.
This short video shows the crowd density from the reflecting pool to 3rd St.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO4aoXG4vXs
People have actually laid out blankets. Obviously, calculating 6 square feet per person within the demonstration area presumes a crowd density which simply did not exist.
What do we get if allow 24 square feet per person? That would mean a 4.9 foot square per person which seems pretty reasonable given those crowd pictures.
24 square feet per person gives us 66,666 people. That's within the estimated range that most media have adopted.
20 square feet per person (a 4.47 foot square) = 80,000.
16 square feet per person (a 4 foot square) = 100,000.
Oh, and by the way, how much personal space would 1,000,000 demonstrators have had in that area? 1.6 square feet – a 1.26 foot square.
And lastly, if you'd really like to see what a big crowd in that area looks like, try here:
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/01/the_in…
Things like that is why people say that it is race based. It is actually a disagreement colored by insults, since he is of a different race then them they say things like the above that are pretty obviously over the line but then get angry when people point this out. Thank you for calling it out as that is the way to lose the “racial” stink from those that disagree, stop looking that way and police those around you that do to ensure that its actually false. Once it ends and becomes only about policy an actual debate can take place, otherwise those that hate racism are being asked to ignore it and those that are racist are actually being empowered. Sometimes those that say such things are not racist but just highly ignorant but it still looks much the same to those on the outside. Just my .02 but thanks.
Vicb –
No use arguing against the tempest-teapotters with such silly little things as facts. You are wasting your breath (or in this case, keystrokes) – they don't want to hear the facts. They just want to be validated.
Let the 70,000 protester believe whatever they want to believe – if there's one thing this little teapot tempest proved last week, it's that the teapotter movement is a whole lot smaller than anyone could have ever expected. Turnout was much smaller than I would have ever hoped, and their impact was negligible. If anything, they just very publicly demonstrated how insignificant they really are.
So let it go, man, let it go. Let them live in their shrinking echo chamber, while the rest of the nation moves on.
I dunno, T-Steel – I think every message board needs a Court Jester. I find Wrong-Way Dave's occasional drive-by comments here absolutely *hilarious*!
Let him stay – we all need the comedy relief!
I know we have had our disagreements about how far race goes in the criticism of President Obama, TMSF, I'm no fool. I've seen enough “Brobambi” references with accompanying bigoted slurs on other blogs to know “the deal” when I see “the deed”.
I used to be a card-carrying bigot. I made some of the most vile remarks about white people until I got my face broke by a white person (who's now the godfather of my oldest child). That man broke me out of that bigoted thinking so completely that I forgot about color (well mostly, I like all the colors). LOL!
Either way, while I still maintain that the majority of the criticism of President Obama is based on policy, there is the bigoted undercurrent as well. Clear and present. We would ALL be best served to keep our disagreements civil to allow for more THOUGHTFULNESS instead of emotion reactions.
I disagree, first I think it was an impressive showing for a conservative protest since this is not really their arena. Secondly I do not find the comments that do such things amusing. To me comments like that are akin to peeing in my pool and then telling me that I am a bigot for pointing out people pee in pools and god forbid I accuse them. They not only offend me they marginalize my conservative views and worse in my opinion my friends that are actually conservatives views. If I wanted this nation to be a Dem only country I could be amused but I like having two parties that are at least kinda sane and allowing it to continue just perpetuates the problem.
Fox and friends isn't about balance, but ratings and money. Granted, Fox News is a conservative voice, but if liberals were left out it's my guess Fox would be Left of the BBC. Love the family values of the Simpsons and Married with Children. Where is the Disney movies and Fahter Knows Best on Fox(non-news) ?
We don't do the site ban thing hardly at all. I'd rather have folks be passionate WITHOUT the “line-stepping” name-calling.
Can't lie though. I find the “Bambi” references hilarious especially since JibJab's “Time for Some Campaignin'” funny:
http://sendables.jibjab.com/originals/time_for_…
Your post proves Fox's point. (Are you a Fox plant?) The “official” unofficial estimate of “70,000″ at the rally is hard to square with the DC Metro figures for that day, which show more than 200,000 more riders than usual on a September Saturday. If you SERIOUSLY BELIEVE that the “turnout was much smaller than expected,” then all the big media missed this story… no matter how many reporters were there.
I got duped by the Promise Keeper's photo… but I don't think that's the photo Dave in Boca means. There is a legitimate photo from the top of the Capitol that provides the best evidence of the actual crowd size.
I like the initial math… not sure if I can buy the subsequent reasoning. If you accept the data from the DC Metro that shows ridership up more than 200,000 that day, you wind up with a number that's pretty close to your original figure.
My problem with the mainstream media is that nobody apparently called DC Metro or any other source to try to do this kind of independent analysis. “70,000″ sounded good to them, so they went with that. That has the unintended consequence of creating a whole new urban legend of “the MSM knew there were 2 million people there but they buried it because they support Obama.” It's bad journalism and it's STUPID sociology.
Here's a time-lapse photo from American Thinker, a blog most of the commenters above might not frequent.
Didn't know “Brobambi” had racial connotations because in S. Florida it's an Hispanic all-encompassing street term with no race specificity [whites, blacks, hispanics are all bros....] and bambi last time I checked was of a naive fawn in a Disney movie….implying someone way above his Peter Principle skill sets. An opinion about which I exercise my First Amendment rights to express.
Thanks for calling it “teapotter” instead of a sexual slur. But the people who attended left with the belief that their movement was much BIGGER than anyone could have ever expected. They came with projections of 30,000 or so and left thinking two million people were there. Now they think the MSM is engaged in a conspiracy to lie about the real numbers. It's the perfect way to fan the flames of paranoia.
The right answer is to put a journalist (heck, a journalism student) on the job of digging through all available data, going to some reputable experts, and coming back with a story. How big was it really? How do we know? Why did so many papers say X when it was really Y? Why do so many tea partiers believe it was Z when it was only Y? All in all, great follow-up journalism.
So where is it?
Scott, even if there were 200,000 people there, the teabaggers were still initially exaggerating by *TEN* orders of magnitude.
Ha ha ha…. I like this example of a conspiracy theorist…lunacy on The View….
Try being civil and not using sexual slurs.
daveinboca? It was my impression that the protesters had embraced that phrase?
See: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VGaTRwIldGc/SapmmzUnx…
Keep in mind that the riders rode out and in so the number has to be halved on the riders. That still leaves you with 100k, I would guess that 30k could be a mixture of protestors/those there to see them or journalists/and some random stragglers but that covers the ridership question. I also think that crowd sizes tend to be underestimated but you have to keep in mind that adding to the 912 protest numbers you then have to go back in time and do the same to all of the protest numbers that have been downplayed in the last 30-40 years. This also means things like the million man march the repubs and Rush mocked so horribly may have actually been a million since they were estimated around 800k I believe. This is my long way of saying the estimates are just that estimates but the numbers seem to be pretty close to the estimate which has been how they have been working with crowd size all along. We are actually being asked to move the goal posts when one side does not like the result that they never before complained about. Also the media covered the story though not to either partisan sides liking including Fox.
I live in Portland, OR and I went to watch Obama speak, the estimate was 70k people showed up. I really thought it was more since the entire downtown was packed like sardines and the cheers echoed around the entire downtown area(I live downtown). Its a lot of people, and when you are in it you can feel like it is even larger than it is. In fact at the time it felt like millions even though I knew they only had space for around 50k in the area(20k watched/listened from the streets and surrounding neighborhoods since we could not get close to the event(this is where I was as I tried to get in 2hrs before the event but it was already packed).
Can someone please provide the link to the metro ridership web-page?
Edit: nevermind, found it
>>If you SERIOUSLY BELIEVE that the “turnout was much smaller than expected,” then all the big media missed this story… no matter how many reporters were there.
I am having a hard time following your logic – it does not make any sense — how does “smaller than expected” turnout mean that the Responsible Media missed the story? A does not lead to B.
In any case, *yes*, I really seriously believe that the turnout was much smaller than expected, as I had previously commented on in another discussion thread. Going back to April, enough people turned out to the April 15th teapot-tempest events (300-400K) to give me a bit of a pause – could this be a real movement? But then, after months and months of hyping and non-stop promotion by the Fox Comedy Channel, this supposed-to-be-major event on September 12th by the teapot-tempest crowd turned out to be a let-down. Only 60-70,000 showed up, showing that the anti-government anger is a whole lot smaller sliver of the nation than anyone had expected (it just seems larger because they are so loud and obnoxious). Still as unfocused in their message as before, despite months of having a chance to refine and target their message. Still stuck on pushing ridiculous conspiracy theories and marginalizing through misconceptions, half-truths and outright bald-faced lies.
This was supposed to be their Big Event? This was supposed to be the rally that would Wake Up America? This was supposed to show the anger brewing under the surface by Joe Six-Pack and Suzy Homemaker? Seriously?
A week later no one is talking about the message – people are only taking about how the anti-America crowd on the far right is whining about how they didn't receive any coverage and no one believes them when they try and parrot their inflated attendance figures. Epic fail.
And as I said before, I'm surprised that this little teapot tempest received such massive coverage from the Responsible Media, considering what a dud it ended up being in hindsight. And I do find the whole media-on-media nonsense over who “said the most” to be somewhat amusing. McLuhan must be chuckling in his grave.
Yes actually they have spouted many conspiracy theories as well, specifically Rosie who is no longer on the show. So let me re-state, if you get your news from Fox OR the View you are a conspiracy theorist. Also I do not take offense to bambi, or obambi and I am a strong Obama supporter. Brobambi looks like a slur so I would avoid it like the plague. The reason is that the right cant complain about being painted as racist if they are saying things that look or seem racist. If that is left at the door it becomes about policy which is a great and healthy debate to have but race baiting is no better than racist baiting and both I feel are dangerous not only to a Repub party that I would like to not see look like the Dems from the 70's-90's but also to our Republic.
Racist baiting is edging up to the slur/racist/bigot line and then pulling back to get people to scream racist at you so that you can say that they see racists everywhere for no reason.
>>even if there were 200,000 people there, the teabaggers were still initially exaggerating by *TEN* orders of magnitude.
FYI – ten orders of magnitude would be 10 to the 10th power – or 10 billion. I think you meant *ONE* order of magnitude.
Oh I'm VERY fluent in the “bro”. But I have seen the “Brobambi” used WAY TOO MANY times on other sites in unsavory bigoted ways. But if that's not what you meant, fine. I can accept that. But we shall see.
And no one's questioning your First Amendment rights. We just trying to keep some civility in the comments. No ulterior motives. No nanny states. No big “brothering”. Promise.
Skyfather – don't forget the other major event on the Mall that day – the 24th Annual Black Family Reunion, which generally draws about half a million visitors to the Washington DC area over the weekend (I find that figure hard to swallow myself, but previous annual reunions have definitely been in the six-figure range, albeit low six figures; and not all of them were on the Mall). Makes you wonder how much of the ridership was because of that?
Wow I completely missed that, sorry all. I still stand by my statement that it was a good showing for a conservative movement but I would be saying that for any number above 40k. It would have been mocked if it was a lefty protest but lefties know how to protest, its what they do. Its kind of like Obama's campaign financing, it was impressive by Republican standards but it was also impressive by any campaign's standards. If he would have raised a good deal less it still would have been groundbreaking for the left, because it is not what they are known for.
daveinboca,
1) Your video had a nice shot of a CNN van… More Proof that the recent full page FOX News ad was a LIE. Thanks for proving the actual point of this thread.
2) you should look up the meaning of big words like “time-lapse” before using them in a sentence.
3) Your video also shows a lot of green… open space… empty lawn.