Protecting The Right To Be A Jerk
A lawsuit has been filed in New Jersey after three teenagers refused to stand during the playing of God Bless America at a minor league baseball park. There is some debate as to whether the teens refused to stand deliberately as some protest against the US or if they simply didn’t think about it one way or the other. There is also some dispute as to the exact details of the confrontation with the stadium owner, but it is clear that the boys were thrown out of the park.
They have now sued for ‘unspecified damages’ relating to the incident. Personally I find their behavior, whether deliberate or simply a sign of normal teenage laziness, to be insulting and stupid. In short they were a bunch of jerks for not recognizing that you should, if only out of pure politeness, stand during the performance of the song.
However at the same time I think the stadium owner behaved wrongly as well. These may be jerks but in this country you have the right to be a jerk. Yes it is private property but that does not mean that he can do anything he wants, and free speech rights to apply to everyone. As a wise man once said, popular speech does not need protecting, it is unpopular speech that needs to be defended.
Having said that, if these boys (and the attorney father) truly want to make this a free speech argument then they should only demand repayment for the cost of the tickets, their travel time and perhaps a small amount for the any embarrassment that they experienced. If they demand huge damages then this is simply a matter of another abuse of the law.
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20 Responses to “Protecting The Right To Be A Jerk”
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These three teenagers are patriots and the owner of the ballpark is a quasi-fascist. God Bless America is a terrible show tune and nothing more. We sing the National Anthem at games to show respect for our country. God Bless America is meaningless – especially if you don't believe in God.
If they were screaming obscenities about hating America that would be one thing. But getting kicked out for sitting down during God Bless America? Are we even a free country?
Oh, and the jerk who calls it “his stadium” is lying. It belongs to the people of Newark, not him. But fascists don't know the difference.
The kids were being kids, that shouldn't a reason to eject them.
That being said, there is some difference of accounts of the owners offer to apologize:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALe…
I could understand the boys wanting an apology directly from Cetnar, the guy who ejected them, but if they were just asking for money it seems a bit unreasonable, free tickets should have been enough, along with that apology. It remains to be seen if Cetnar's apology was a possibility that was refused in the persual of a monetary windfall, or whether it was something that Cetnar was unwilling to do after confronted by his bosses, in which case firing him and giving the boys tickets should have sufficed.
Its kinda sad that everything has to turn into a lawsuit in this country. So often the emphasis seems to be on reaping a reward than in setting a wrong right.
I don't know the details about the money v. meeting w/Cetnar issue, but it's obvious that Cetnar owes these kids an apology for acting in such a vicious manner. Don't forget that Wankmiller works for Cetnar. He has a reason to make it look like the kids just want money.
Patrick, I agree with you. The kids were jerks, or stupid, or whatever…. and the owner behaved wrongly too.
Interesting that the kids are suing for embarrassment. They embarrassed themselves by not standing along with the rest of the crowd and not showing proper respect (regardless of whether that respect is “officially” recognized or not…. standing for that song to show respect seems to be a custom there and that's what matters).
I feel that ultimately the parents are wrong to support their kids childish behavior, particularly when the kids were offered an apology and free tickets. The article doesn't say whether the kids even acknowledged their part in this and if they offered an apology as well. That is what “good kids” would have done. I suppose if the parents want to raise disrespectful and boorish kids, then they're succeeding.
Just to be clear- if the kids want to behave that way, fine. They have the right to do so. Neither side handled the situation as I would have. The owners should have ignored the kids.
I just don't see what is so disrespectful here. They didn't say anything untoward or inappropriate. They didn't start yelling about how much they hate God Bless America. All they did was remain seated. There is absolutely nothing required of people to stand during these moments. Sure, most people do stand up. But I notice hundreds of people remaining seated during the National Anthem or God Bless America when I go to games. These moments are little more than formalities. I've certainly never noticed or cared before. I doubt anybody around the kids noticed either. But Cetnar decided to make an issue of it for some reason. I find people who litter our National Parks to be a lot more unpatriotic than those who sit down during God Bless America a baseball game.
Actually Wankmiller is a co-owner.
Very well put.
Excuse me, but this is America, and money is the only measure that counts, an apology will not feed you nor put your kids through college.
Conservatives have spent the last thirty years telling us that greed is good and demonstrating it, they worked overtime to create a society of mercenaries in which loyalty, hard work and dedication aren't worth a penny, so why are they shocked when people act like mercenaries.
Accepting an apology will build their character rather than instilling a lesson that revenge and opportunism for profit outweighs a concern for class and justice.
Interesting, you seem to assume the park owner was a Conservative. Do you feel there are no democrats who who be patriotic to the point of taking offense that the kids did not stand for God Bless America? Sorry , but around here most democrats would look at this the same way most Conservatives would.
ROTFLMAO….
That 's the funniest thing I have read this year…
Neither character, class or justice will put a roof over my head or feed my children when my job is outsourced to some third world rat-hole which my boss can do at any given point, for any damn reason. If I have no money, America will let me die like a dog without a second thought, the way it leaves twenty thousand people to die every year due to a lack of insurance. This is America, money is the only thing that counts.
I didn't make the rules, I don't particularly approve of them but there they are, I don't see any reason people shouldn't take advantage of them.
That is not what I am assuming. I am assuming that the fine conservative values of greed and of self interest ( The “F**k you, I have got mine” mentality if you will ) have pervaded all layers of society.
I am also amused to see conservatives shocked when people act the way conservatives have trained them to act.
Accepting an apology WOULD build character for these kids. But the guy who verbally harassed them did not apologize. That seems to be the problem.
There is a lot of assumption going on on both sides. There isn't nearly enough info to decide what truly happened there. The idea that their “free speech” rights were violated seems thin. If it is a privately owned property and no public officials were involved (police), it's an difficult case to make. Hey if it's their property they make the rules! But if the kids were ejected for other than bad behavior then they should get their money back. Since the father said the kids were not protesting then they were not “speaking” so it seems to me that that right (free speech) couldn't of been violated because they were not engaged in it. Now is there some State of Federal code I don't know about? Maybe, but it seems over reaching to shake down the team. If this is not a pattern then why should they get a payoff? If it is then file under that basis and you would appear much less money grubbing.
The premise of this piece, that these young men are/were “jerks”, is false. Failing to rise for a religious serenade is not the province of jerkdom. I see nothing, absoluting nothing, in this article to indicate that they were being “jerks”. “God Bless America” is not our national anthem, and, even if it were, you have the right to sit out the tradition (it's only a tradition, not a law) of the playing of even the national anthem.
No jerkiness involved, at least not any that is shown in the post, except on behalf of those who threw them out.
God Bless America, the land where freedom is respected, not punished.
Leonidas, “Accepting an apology will build their character rather than instilling a lesson that revenge and opportunism for profit outweighs a concern for class and justice.”
and
“Do you feel there are no democrats who who be patriotic to the point of taking offense that the kids did not stand for God Bless America?”
Exactly! Good points.
And: “My uncle, an ex-marine and proud life long democrat would have yanked them up by the neck of their shirt and told them to sing along.”
Not exactly something I would do but I know the type and good for your uncle!
I'm a baseball junkie myself – I stand with my cap over my heart during the national anthem, and then sing along with the seventh inning stretch. Along with a hot dog and a beer, that's just baseball to me. Can't do a game without it.
But I've never liked the whole God Bless America phenomenon at ballgames (although it's not as bad as the God-awful Cotton Eyed Joe). It's always struck me as a bit jingoistic, and I equate it to having to wear American Flag lapel-pins to “prove” you're a good American. Just doesn't make any sense to me. So I don't think (albeit, as EEllis pointed out, without a lot of the details being known) that the kids did anything wrong.
That being said, if they end up suing for anything more than actual damages plus court costs, then they belong in that circle of Hell reserved for those who sit behind home plate waving at the camera while on their cell phones to their buddy.
If I believe the “god” they want to “bless America” is a dangerous space alien and slavery-loving misogynist, that is MY right. It's not even legally required to stand for the national anthem, let alone for an unofficial feel-good mashup of nationalism and religion. How pathetic that we get worked up over cheesy displays of nationalism. These kids may be more patriotic (or less) than those who stand for the song. Either way, it's their right. The right of citizenship is not predicated on “loving” America, nor on wanting “God” to bless the country. It is conferred by being born here or naturalized.
Ahh, so your assuming that all folks, Liberal, Moderates and Conservatives have been co-opted to evil conservative viewpoints and trained to act like evil conservatives and you approve of this.
Interesting….
To a large extent, yes… You can't work in a sewer 18 hours a day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year without smelling like shit…
I have a friend who swears up and down that commercials have no effect on her consumption patterns, to which I always tell her that she is full of crap. Corporate America would not spend the fortune they do on advertising if it had no effect.
Where did I say that I approve? I just pointed out that those are the rules and that there is no upside to turning the other cheek. (Which when you think about it, is a nice conservative value)