Yeah, if you also condemn the signs and clutter against President Bill Clinton and condemn outright Rush Limbaugh, G.Gordon Liddy and the like.

You people started this crap.

This stuff has been going on since the days of the Federalist and Democratic-Republican.

Someone needs to study history and take a nap.

I am uncertain what you mean about salary to q-tip ratios. America is the only sue happy country in the world. Everywhere else if they remove the wrong leg well then thats just too bad. Drug costs are marked up in some cases 100x more in america. (especially for cancer treatment) . That's why big pharam cut one of the first deals with obama to help with his new healthcare. notice how the white house won't release the names of any visitors this spring involved in that wonderful preplanned backdoor screwing of the american tax payer. The drug business is 30 percent more profittable than the next biggest industry in this country. These pigs are raping the system. And tell me why obama made his reform so sweet for labor unions? How does that help the cost of healthcare in america? You can solve a problem only when you treat the symptoms. Obama is using the liberal idealism of the democratic party to to pretend to help those without insurance, but in reality he is feeding big business and organized labor in yet another piece of highway robbery littigation. Its chicago politics at its best. To get what he wants (single payer) he must buy off his opposition (Big pharma, big insurance, and labor unions) but I don't think he minds. After all they did help get him elected.

Ya know, I used to hold out hope for that. Not anymore.”

[chuckle] And what should we have expected in this case?

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=128&subid=1…

Nobody does, so don't join the many liars who say that opponents of the “reform” effort prefer or defend it.

It's beyond most ObamaCare proponents' ability to understand this (, too), but that's why there not only are likely private insurers retained now, but that with “Medicare for All” eventually, providers will remain nominally and legally (if no longer effectively or actually) private. That prevents loss of lawsuit rewards for lawyers, and in fact it wouldn't be surprising to see ratcheting-upward mimimum liability insurance requirements eventually in health care “reform” legislation, even involving taxpayer subsidies of insurance (and raising and preserving lawsuit payouts).

* * *

“Heck, NO is the only weapon regular folks have against a corporation, government, etc.”

It bothers the children in left field, who can't handle the word “no” and who want their way, NOW!

But the lib Dems' increasingly bad behavior (including Obama's) has increasingly repelled the adults.

http://people-press.org/report/539/congressiona…

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1333/obama-approval…

http://people-press.org/report/532/obamas-ratin…

I was listening to two radio programs on the road this morning here in Detroit metro, and one of them was a mainstreamer who disparaged the mischaracterization CNN made of the event and the people — even NPR did a better, more accurate job than CNN. Meanwhile, on infantile Stephanie Miller's show, today's programming was devoted to gross distortion, slander, and much worse about the protestors, stooping low as I've seen elsewhere among lefties (including on this site) given the current desperation about the health care legislation and the liberal Democrats' self-made disasters this year.

You're showing your bias. The people who started this died long ago.

You people started this crap.

These facts cannot be denied. P.S., I don’t like Canada as an example. They do Socialized Medicine rather poorly IMO.

What bothers me about the 9/12 marchers is the photos I saw of confederate flags, of t-shirts with 25 guns labeled as “diversity,” of the sign that urged that Obamacare be buried with Kennedy, of the signs that called Obama Hitler and a Nazi, AND a fascist, AND a communist. Hate and political ignorance at the same time. Can't beat it.

I've been to a lot of marches in my time, and I've seen a lot of dumb stupid signs at those marches, but never have I seen a woman with a big confederate flag, or a sign suggesting Kennedy's death was a good thing, et al. Personally, I find it appalling. And that's what I object to.

I share your condemnation of most of those signs, do you share my condemnation of the signs I have posted a link to of anti-bush protestors?

Here is the link in case you missed it before:
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=621

After reading your weekend posts I've come to the conclusion that there is no room or reason for us to waste our time trying to discuss or debate the issues with one other. Tell all your eclectic friends that I said “Hi” and we can just leave it at that.

Saddens me if you feel that way, but if thats your choice, so be it. I haven't seen much more than hyperbole from you so maybe it was inevitable, as its almost impossible to have a meaningful debate with an ideologue such as yourself.. Say hi to your friends as well. I disagree with you and your approach, but I have no ill will. Be well.

Regarding the cost of healthcare in socialized countries: Yes it is much cheaper and for two reasons. 1) you can't sue your doctor. 2) the medicine is much cheaper. That''s why american buy it mail order or go up to Canada. Now both of these things are not being seriously considered in the current healthcare bill. Well now you can do the math with your socialized medicne costs. Don't forget to carry the trillions.

The protesters were watching bush wipe his ass all over this country for the last 8-years. Many of them voted for obama because he promised to change the direction bush had taken the country. Obama is the biggest sellout that ever walked the earth. Unions and lawyer and bailouts oh my.

the majority of people at the tea party protests do not cary crazy signs or guns. Some people in the media choose to highlight this tiny fringe because it gets people to watch their shows or read their papers or dare i say it? it lets them promote their own liberal agendas to demonize an american movement that truely is anti republican and anti democrat. I live in arizona. I abhor the legacy of the rebublican executive branch. I was raised a liberal by republican haters and i know this much: both sides of the isle are to blame. Democrats are no better. Every major urban poverty center has been under democrat control for over 100 years. Are we to belive that the republican kept all those good people down? How about those democrat officials in ethnically poor places that have been selling their constiuents out for decades? What about the corruption of our congress? Are we to believe that even though the democrats have controlled it for the better part of a century that its all the evil war mongering republicans fault. I propose they are two sides of the same corrupt coin. I think american politics have reached a tipping point in that they see that the new boss is the same as the old boss. where we go from here is anybodys guess.

I think that healthcare needs to be reformed but not by spending imaginary or otherwise unrealized savings. There is no working model in the world for the system being proposed. It has failed in every state it was tried in. (see oregon, see tennesee, see massachusets) why on earth would we expect it to work now. (see definition of insanity) I think that if fraud can be saved then do it. I think tort reform would save even more money. I think dergulating the market might help. Look at what the telecom act of 1996 did when they broke up the giant corporate players. We all went form black rotaries to blackberries, It worked! I think a catestrohic subsidy might be feasible, I think that goverment clinics for the poor sould be implented to save emergency room costs, I think that millions of people are losing their healthcare because they are losing their jobs! We can't all work for the biggest growth sector in america (the goverment)

Imagine our healthcare system is a patient. A doctor treating an unknown ailment would try various treatments one at a time in an attempt to fix the problem. Does it make sense to use everything in the pharmacy and hope for the best? A gradual adjustment to Helthcare policy and regulation would be best. You can't fix everything all at once with the stroke of a pen and America knows this.

Reckless is a 750bil stimulus passed in the dead of night under the guise of an emergecy…that has barely been spent. Kind of like weapons of mass destruction. Reckless is an omnibus with tens of thousands of earmarks not vetoed by a president who propmised he would do so to get elected. Diod you know obama himself had earmaks in the bill from when he was a junior senator? The dems removed them in the 11th hour to save the new president embarassment. I guess reckless is a relative term for you.

Obama absolutely wanted to start his term with the stimulous and his bailout of GM violated bankruptcy laws to help his union supporters. of coure he wanted it that way…ove 6 billion alone is reserved for community organizers like acorn. Obama did it immediately so he could blur the the line between administrations. With all that money why would one expect anything less than a lobbiest feeding frenzy? Isn't that exactly what Obama promised to change? You bet he did.

twenty twenty hindsight not withstanding, obama kept defense secretary Gates and continues to further the bush war for corporate america in the name of national security. No doubt the those poor bastards in afganistan are mounting a donkey attack on the mainland US as we speak. I believe americans felt disenfranchised long befor obama. HIs promise to change all of this, and obvious intentions not to, have drawn the snakes out of their holes and boy are they pissed.

The protesters are not rank partisans, they do not trust their government and for good reason. The mistake this administration is making is not taking its capaign promises to clean up washington seriously.

If we can save 500bil by stopping fraud in healthcare why would we plan to spend it before it is even realized? Everyone knows legal reform would save equally as much. Why is it that the obama administration is so pro union and pro defense lawyer lobby? It is a comon arguement to say that the last party played ball this way and spent alot of money on war etc. Yes and that's why they lost the election.

Does healthcare need to be reformed? I'm sure it does. The problem is washington can't do it in a way that won't be tainted by the special interests that pull their strings. These same special interests are in part to blame for the healthcare problem to begin with. REFORM WASHINGTON THEN REFORM HEALTHCARE. Washington makes me sick.

Elwood wrote: “Maybe the fact passed you by, but…”

Phooey.