If you are really reading the progressive bloggers, you will see to inportant points: single payer and the removal of any profit motive. Look at the push for nationalizing the pharmaceutical industries. Look at the push to put health care workers on salary and to limit their income.

Physician on salary, no profit motive, and single payer = NHS. The progressives expect people to work hard to provide healthcare for low wages and in bad working conditions. Nothing really different than the NHS.

The complicit: A fairly small group of mostly rich and corporate interests that fully knows the goal of GOP economic policy is to increase their wealth and power at the expense of everyone else, including the other categories of Republicans. They lead other 'conservatives' with scare tactics and bigotry, appealing to their feelings of moral superiority and self importance. The complicit includes those who profit from federal spending on military adventurism, prison funding, wasteful government contracting to private enterprises like Lockheed, Blackwater, Haliburton and the thousands of other for-profit entities that exist to milk money from the government.

The sheep: This group follows, easily led by the talking points of the complicit. They buy such fictions as lowering taxes can increase government revenue, that “what's good for business is good for the country”, that “a rising tide lifts all boats” economically (even though their own boats are swamped in economic stagnation). The bigots fit in this large group too, those easily led by racist, sexist, classist, nationalistic and religious appeals as well as the frankly selfish who fear anyone “taking what's mine”.

The distracted: This includes the single issue voters (Abortion activists, homophobes, gun rights zealots) who will vote those positions regardless of any other ideology of the party.

Can you provide me some examples of this? I read some progressive sites on the internat and know a few (my brother!). I see zero support for nationizing health care similar to the UK system. Certainly there is no support in Congress or even any discussion of it.

The most radical plan I have seen advanced, although it is not in any of the bills so far, is single provider, Medicare for all. This would be similar to the Canadian system, not the UKs. But even it was taken off the table and not seriously considered.

Is this another case where I shouldn't pay attention to what they say or do but to what you know Progressives, deep in their heart, really want?

The problem with the progressives is that they have carrying too much baggage while trying to pass medical insurnace reform. Progressive really want a UK type system of nationalized health care. Progressive just do not want insurance reform but nationalization of health care. Second, progressives want to use entitlements to encourage more illegal aliens to come to the U.S. because it creates more automatic Democratic voters while creating more government jobs and more support for government handouts. Third, progressives want to kill health care as a good career field. All of the Ivy leaguers who majored in Philosophy or political science really resent the idea that a pharmacist or nurse who graduate from a state university makes more money than they do.

Of course, the real reason that the Democrats are mad is that the Democratic Party loves the idea of open borders and unlimited immigration because it helps core Democratic groups such as La Raza, the public sector unions, social workers, and NGO's.

Disagree, I think the Progressive wing of the democratic party is really mad because even with the presidency and a filibuster proof majority they could not convince their own party to pass healthcare reform as they thought they were entitled to. They are mad because the moderates of their own party told them to stuff it,. They can't do a damn thing about that now, since they still want those votes so they lash out at the GOP who didn't have the power to stop them had they been able to unify the democrats.

Or to put it more briefly, they are mad because the score is:

Blue Dogs 1 Progressives 0

By the way, “Father Time,” the U.S. Constitution did not establish a “parliament,” but if you were even remotely familiar with “question time” in the British Parliament you'd find it quite rowdy.

i guess that still says a lot, though.

also, is no one aware that we’re already required to give medical care to illegals in some circumstances…?

Want to bet that after that language is removed in conference committee that no one who is coalling Rep. Wilson a demagogue is apologize and admit that he was right and that President Obama was lying to the American people.

My guess is that no matter what the final bill says and how much money will be spent on illegal aliens, that the so-called progressives will keep carrying water for the Obama Administration instead of holding them accountable for the lying.

Of course, the real reason that the Democrats are mad is that the Democratic Party loves the idea of open borders and unlimited immigration because it helps core Democratic groups such as La Raza, the public sector unions, social workers, and NGO's.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/09/…

As my friend put it so well:

So, is this the Whitehouse way of saying ” uh…. okay, maybe he lied a little” without actually coming right out and saying “uh … okay, maybe he lied a little”?