Comments on: The Speech: Obama Defends Health-Care Reform Before Joint Session of Congress

By: DLS

DLS — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:30:57 +0000

"What's even more annoying is the paucity of any posts that actually discuss the content of the speech."

I've listed the factual elements on more than one thread, as well as identified the many defects.

Many don't care about that, but want to do Republican-bashing or other silliness instead. (Maybe the identification of the many defects sets off the especially touchy among the desperate and hurried these days; who knows.)

By: Leonidas

Leonidas — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 03:52:48 +0000

Agreed CStanley and I am guilty of it as well. If you want to discuss this sans talking points and such I'll put it aside and be more than willing, and have in some places, but surely not enough. Thank you for the reminder.

By: CStanley

CStanley — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 03:31:55 +0000

What's even more annoying is the paucity of any posts that actually discuss the content of the speech. I actually thought there were a few interesting things that Obama said and was hoping to see what people's reactions and opinions on those points were. Instead, the only time the actual speech was discussed came in the context of whether or not Wilson was correct in saying that Obama lied.

If this isn't a perfect example of political gamesmanship preventing citizens from actually engaging in discussions of real issues, I don't know what is.

By: Leonidas

Leonidas — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 01:36:43 +0000

Request a Moderator for clean-up or aisle 11... 10... and 9.

Leonidas keeps dropping the same spam all over the store.

FWIW Leonidas... Spam (along with all the other canned baloney) is on aisle 4

By: DLS

DLS — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:07:33 +0000

“Come on gang”

They can't or won't even acknowledge or admit that the speech includes a few relevent points and a huge amount of garbage. Of course, the garbage would have appealed primarily if not exclusively to whom?

By: DLS

DLS — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:05:38 +0000

Would Mikey neglect splattering his waste again when opportunity presents itself to such people?

Noooooooooooo.

Note that Obama's and the Congre-Dems' plan don't offer free drug trips for foreigners yet, Mikey.

By: GreenDreams

GreenDreams — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:43:37 +0000

“Spam (along with all the other canned baloney) is on aisle 4″

LOL. Good one.

By: SteveK

SteveK — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:25:12 +0000

This is at least the third time you've spammed a link to CIS. The CIS is a racist group that put all their energy into kicking Mexicans out of the country.

The CIS Executive Director is xenophobe Mark Krikorian. It's an easy Google to find all you need to know about Mark Krikorian. hint: He's not the least bit interested in Health Care Reform... He's into Mexicans.

Here's one of Mark Krikorian's 'non-partiasn' rants.

It's probably wise to look at where Leonidas gets his "facts" (sic) before you give them credence.

By: Davebo

Davebo — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:56:36 +0000

As it now stands, the bill has a ban on illegal immigrants, but Congress has chosen to leave that ban unenforced.

So fraud is now legal?

By: SteveK

SteveK — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:44:07 +0000

Request for clean-up in aisle 11, 10 and 9. Leonidas keeps dropping the same spam all over the store.

FWIW Leonidas… Spam (along with all the other canned baloney) is on aisle 4

By: Leonidas

Leonidas — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:31:21 +0000

Sure The Politico mentions it along with democrats heckling Bush

Dems heckled Bush, but Wilson was different

Joe Wilson's 15 minutes of infamy notwithstanding, Democrats were pretty rough on George W. Bush during a joint sessions a few years back.

Two examples:

In 2004, Democrats delivered a “Chorus Of Boos” during Bush's Bush’s State Of The Union when he called for renewal of the Patriot Act., according to the Washington Times.

In 2005, Dems howled, hissed and shouted "No!" when Bush pushed for Social Security reform in the SOU: "Foreshadowing the contentiousness of the coming debate, Democrats broke decorum and booed twice," according to the National Journal.

At the time, CNN's Bill Schneider remarked, “It was unusual. I had never heard it at least at that level before. The Democrats clearly were booing, heckling, saying no when the president talked about the crisis in Social Security."

Moreover, Obama's claim that illegal immigrants won't be covered -- which sparked Wilson's outburst -- while technically accurate, doesn't quite tell the entire story. Some of the bills being considered in the House and Senate contain provisions locking in local statutes that prevent providers from inquiring about immigration status prior to treatment. And illegals are treated, and are bound to be treated, in ERs, covered by local, state and federal uninsured pools.

So why the outcry over Wilson?

I think it's because Congressional Republicans have used the health care debate to vent a deeper, uglier contempt for Obama that verges on the personal.

They've done little to discourage the party's fringes from questioning Obama's legitimacy to serve through the birther movement, fitness to govern through the death panel canard -- and even the territorial integrity of the US under a Democratic president through Texas Gov. Rick Perry's flirtation with secession.

Anger may stoke the base at town halls -- and goose Glenn Beck -- but it just looks ugly on the national stage.

Also this

Wilson wasn't just making stuff up.

http://www.cis.org/IllegalsAndHealthCareHR3200

Although the bill states illegal immigrants are not to benefit from the new affordability credits, this prohibition is without an enforcement mechanism. Congress voted down an amendment in committee that would have required the use of the SAVE program. Almost all other means-tested programs of the kind found in HR 3200 require the use of SAVE. As it now stands, the bill has a ban on illegal immigrants, but Congress has chosen to leave that ban unenforced. As a result, the nearly seven million uninsured illegal immigrants with qualifying incomes could receive affordability credits under the bill, creating billions of dollars in costs to taxpayers. If the final version of health care reform includes a public option plan and if illegal immigrants enroll in that program instead of receiving affordability credits, the costs would be less for taxpayers. Nonetheless, if the government became the direct insurer of illegal immigrants, the cost of covering them would still run into the billions of dollars.

If Congress was serious about not paying for illegals having their healthcare costs covered the would not have voted down use of the SAVE program. Until they approve use of it, democrats are just blowing smoke.

By: TheMagicalSkyFather

TheMagicalSkyFather — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:00:59 +0000

Dont worry Leonidas you and DLS can jump on all 11 and spin your arses off or at least it seems to be what you have done so far. Wanna tell us how Wilson told the truth again?

By: Leonidas

Leonidas — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:43:33 +0000

Congrats micheal you just started the 11th thread about the obama speech. Yay!!!