“There was even a beautiful Ukrainian graveyard a few miles out of town. (Cyrillic on the tombstones.)”

thanks,
dr.e

I used to have a movie running in my head when the mothers marched for recognition of the desaparacidos (those 'disappeared' by the Chilean and other SA governments, who never were returned, nor their bodies)… I wanted the Pope to march in the streets with the mothers, and Fidel and President Everybody from all the nations of the world, and then… they would all go, with all their robes and ambassadorial ribbons flying to march for peace in Palestine/Isreal, and then they would march unafraid in the streets of Kosovo and then they would march in the roads of Rwanda and… magically…. well, you know the rest… We still pray.

On another note, I am glad to see you land on the branch again. I have noticed you were away.

thanks S:
dr.e

dr.e

Interestingly enough, when I used to be in Upstate New York, that was the older history of that area.

There was even a beautiful Ukrainian graveyard a few miles out of town. (Cyrillic on the tombstones.)

(Because of the terrain as well as the history, I called the local area “New Carpathia.”)

Dr.e

Yes, the Bracero program.

I grew up in California and know about not only the farm worker situation (recall Cesar Chavez) but also the sweatshops in LA (it's not only New York that's known for this).

* * *

“I dont know about meatpacking companies now, nor the fed raid in Iowa. In those three huge waves of 'importing' human beings I referred to”

It was a giant fed raid. And, the meatpackers in the Midwest (not limited to Iowa) were known for years for bussing immigrants into the “factories.” Slaughterhouses are also the subject of similar tales. I wouldn't be surprised if, say, the poultry operations (Tyson and such) in places like Arkansas also were doing this.

http://www.seattlepi.com/horsey/popupV2.asp?Sub…

Hi, Dr. E.

Gee, this wouldn't involve the huge meatpackers, by chance, would it, or the huge federal immigration raid not that long ago in Iowa?

You're right, most everyone weighs what powerful people say against their own situ. NIMBY (not in my back yard) activism is perhaps less prominent than WAYGTDFM–(I'm laughing at how that acronym worked out, looks like a swear word a little, doesnt it?) But, it means What Are You Going To Do For Me? I think a lot of us are wanting to know how x or y by legislatures are going to help us, or give us one more pain in the neck.

This afternoon I attended a funeral of a well loved and prominent person in the larger community here. There were maybe 500 people at the funeral. After while waiting for the casket to be brought to the hearse, people all stood around on the sidewalks of the temple, just talking.I walked the entire long long sidewalk, and get this… many people were speaking about Joe Wilson. The people were mostly older, and they are mostly first generation American Jews, and this was one more take on the JW situ… there was an undercurrent, ever so slight, and certainly not above ground completely, of , perhaps I could call it 'tenseness'… between the fellows who show up at town hall wearing firearms, a congressman bearing what they see as false witness in order to demean (their point of view) the President, some of the slinging around on the internet that everything is either jews, blacks, latinos, etc fault… well… these events, well publicized, add up for quite a few people who are different than you and I.

The good old guys at the VFW have similar views of the dishonor of JW, but some of them, for different reasons.

Incidentally, the Jewish man buried today served in WWII and his coffin was topped with the US Flag tri-folded. He might have had a point of view that straddled both this community of Jews and the guys at the VFW.

Anyway, just a bit more of where I'm coming from. I dont know about the polls, Casual, in part because having studied stat in college, I know they are so full of holes in terms of controls, that it is hard to imagine they are a snapshot of anything but the phoner's shoes. I do like to listen to just regular people wherever I go and report back. I think people like them, like you and me, have things to say that you wont see highlighted above the fold in the nyt, lat, ct, csm, well, maybe the csm.

I have to demur (did I spell that right?) Casual… I dont think I feel angst about various and sundry, and cant speak for JoeG, but dont think he is angst-driven either. But, what I do think, is that peace doesnt require people to be syrupy-nice to each other, (and then stab each other in the back later) but I do admire people who hold to peaceful means to get the work done. That's part of why I write about cowboys, boxers, farriers, street ministers, regular people, all of us, who are managing to keep it real but also proceed in dignity…

Thanks CO,

dr.e

Secondly, let's simply agree to have different views on the ramifications of Wilson's commentary outside the political media and blogosphere.

In my view, the man on the street who watched last night was focused on what Obama was saying and processing that against his own circumstances. The Wilson comment was not readily audibly understandable in real time and half the viewers probably left the broadcast before the pundits defined the comment clearly. Even for those who heard it live or regurgitated, I'll submit very few woke up this morning and carried the comment with them.

This is not the stuff that turns regular people's minds. They are not suffering your angst nor the angst of Joe Gandelman over it.

How do I arrive at such a conclusion? Well, ever since Rush Limbaugh uttered his “Obama fail” commentary last January, Mr. Joe has just about weekly found something to mark the demise of Republican electability accompanied by the prediction that moderates and independents would no longer consider them.

Being the gullible sort that I am, no doubt he had me through the first six or seven times he cried wolf. But, long about the 16th time, I noticed he never really quoted any support for his personal conjecture and, around the 22nd time he said it, I looked at polls from January to the present. While the Republican favorability ratings are nothing to brag about, these never actually got worse throughout the entirety of his 32 predictions.

I hate to jump to rash conclusions, but I am beginning to wonder just a wee bit if all this angst over hardball political language is really not having the impact so many of the authors and posters here are suffering daily over.

I mentioned elsewhere on TMV yesterday and today, I feel sorry for Mr. Wilson of SC. He made a huge tactical error. It may cost him his seat. Not the least of which is his explanation that it was 'spontaneous.' Well, we've all said stupid things out loud in the heat of an argument even with loved ones, accusing them of who knows what, but usually not at funerals or weddings or speeches by the President, et al. It probably doesnt matter what word he uses to describe his lack of respect. What shows above ground most, despite whatever his inner workings, is that he became so emotional he lost control of himself.

We've all been there. But hopefully not while representing a huge consituency that is relying on you to have position and power in your House seat with your R colleagues who can help or hurt you bad, not while representing a party with millions of members who are already in some ways, down for the count, and you just cause others to shake their heads and lose even more confidence.

Those who are heavy strategists in the R party know they cannot afford a person who alienates their own constituency– a populace back home who is suffering now regarding many things, the least of which is if a health care bill still in motion is carrying a clause about people without papers. Not that that isnt an issue. But, that there are legal means to solve/ resolve/ debate/ collaborate on such. Not by showing lack of restraint.

Mr. Wilson's state has oceans of poor , disabled, unemployed and deployed. They all vote. It isnt the man/ woman who calls the other team a name who wins at the polls. It's the man or woman who can bring home the bacon.

'Bacon gaining' depends on being assigned to powerful positions in House and Senate. Like Tom Tancredo before him who also could not contain his talk and act with respect to President Bush's wishes… and President Bush, (according to Tancredo,) told him literally not to darken the White House door again– Mr. Wilson is likely to be demoted and not appointed by his own party, and just have his 'chair' suddenly disappear from the table of the real powerbrokers in the House.

That's what happened with Tancredo also. He didnt run again not exactly because he couldnt get re-elected. He might have been. But it was because other R's were treating his loose cannon mouth, as though he were pariah instead of wise man. He was cut out of the power-brokering… which amongst D and R is team playing. Not going off to stand on your own poop deck, as though you dont care about how your actions/reactions affect everyone else in your party.

I feel sorry for the people of SC who struggle so, who depended on Mr. JW.

He's apologized to the president. The president accepted. But, it's not the end of the story would be my guess. Stories have geneology. This one about Rep Wilson belongs to a larger story about the state of the R party at this time.

These are a few of the places I'm coming from.
Thanks CO.

Actually, some activists want no limits, or say we “owe” hospitality to everyone and that anyone who comes here deserves voting and entitlement rights, etc. family reunification rather than a qualification system for individuals, and then with the GOP there is the business community and “corporate whore” stuff from the likes of Cato who get all emotional about it — “anyone who risks death _deserves_ to be here!” — when they're just barking on behalf of big business who funds them.

(Interestingly, he chose notorious Carol Browner to be “climate change” czar, but not Stephen Schneider. I guess it involves doing mainly figurehead or lightweight stuff rather than what could be more dangerous for us.)

now that is funny Casual Observer. . .

but it might be covered by big Pharma that sponsors Dr. Phil and would like to be a chief sponsor of Obamacare?

It was predicted, no different than usual this year, and we weren't disappointed. Fortunately, there were a handful of actual relevent serious elements of the speech, a handful of diamonds in a polluted field.