Health Care Reform Supporter Bites Off Health Care Opponent’s Finger

'Come see the violence inherent in the system'.

Good thing it wasn't the other way around, BTW. Then I am sure it would be an indication of the 'craziness' of all opponents of health care reform.

(AP) – 35 minutes ago

THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. — California authorities say a clash between opponents and supporters of health care reform ended with one man biting off another man's finger.

Ventura County Sheriff's Capt. Frank O'Hanlon says about 100 people demonstrating in favor of health care reforms rallied Wednesday night on a street corner. One protester walked across the street to confront about 25 counter-demonstrators.

O'Hanlon says the man got into an argument and fist fight, during which he bit off the left pinky of a 65-year-old man who opposed health care reform.

A hospital spokeswoman says the man lost half the finger, but doctors reattached it and he was sent home the same night.

She says he had Medicare.

O'Hanlon says the attacker fled but authorities have a good description.

INEXCUSABLE. Any way you look at it, this debate has been horribly mis-managed by our representatives. Of course they have done a wonderful job fixing our economy, exiting our wars, and supporting our inalienable rights.

Finally, a story that shows the real direction and slant of things.

And the offender didn't even have the assistance of union thugs.

Did we all miss the part where the anti reform dude punched the pro reform dude before the finger biting happened? They were in a fight, people. So is the "slant of things" (@DLS) that righties are bullies who bring violence to non-violent situations and lefties aren't good fighters so they fight like girls?

Well, I hadn't seen that the biter left the scene. Admittedly, that's really bad.

Please don't miss the irony that the reform opponent, who had his finger bitten off and reattached, had Medicare for his medical expenses. I know these exchanges are getting uglier and uglier by the day - shouting down people in wheelchairs, fist fights, biting a person's finger off - but sometimes you need to sit back and appreciate the odd circumstances that life brings.

Question - after something like this, can we really justify guns at political rallies?

I thought that one was supposed to eat his opponent's heart, the better to gain his strength. ;þ

But seriously, this discussion should never have devolved even to fist fights, much less cannibalistic defensive maneuvers. Everyone should know that he who throws the first punch (or insult) has ceded the argument, & the anti-HC crowd keeps ceding the argument (remember, he hit the biter first) more & more violently.

"Question - after something like this, can we really justify guns at political rallies?"

This issue may have come of age approaching the situation with court houses, for example.

An expedient measure rally organizers can take it to hold rallies on government (public) property, which may involve whatever security measures normally taken by the government in question.

"righties are bullies who bring violence to non-violent situations and lefties aren't good fighters so they fight like girls"

No. The Left has resorted to bullying whenever it can't get its way. With health care, there is also the element of desperation as well as raised levels of resentment. (How that may affect the manner in which a "reconcilation"-related bullying-and-worse tactic might be sought by Congressional Dems remains open to question or to future observation.)

"no. the left has resorted to bullying whenever it can't get its way."

no. the right has.

neener neener neener.

ok, snark aside, the anti-reform guy started the fight, and came out on the bad end of things. the anti-reform guy threw the first punch, and lost the fight.

don't get into a fight if you don't expect to get beat up, kids.

eyewitness account:

"the man in the orange shirt hit the pro-reform guy (i’m going to call him pr guy just to keep the players straight). hard. ( tweeted in real time) he punched him in the face, knocked him to the ground and into that thruway. as you can see from the photo, cars drive straight through that without stopping. the pro-reform guy could have been run over. he got up, tried to get back up on the curb, but orange shirt guy was in his face. finger in his face, pr guy standing, steps up to the curb, and there’s a scuffle. orange shirt seemed to have pr guy in a hold, but again, i was across the street, so won’t state that as absolute fact. next thing i see is pr guy’s hat being tossed into the street, both yelling at one another, then orange shirt walks away, pr guy picks up hat and crosses to our side.

when he gets to our side, he tells a story in one sentence: “he punched me hard, straight in the face, so i bit his finger off.” "

http://www.drumsnwhistles.com/2009/09/03/health-care-vigil-in-thousand-oaks-provocation-to-violent-response/

the moral of the story is: don't start something you can't finish.

"She says he had Medicare."

Irony at it's best. The anti-socialist health care advocate is on Medicare.

DLS-Hate to tell you this but it looks like we are about to get a very lefty health care bill with a soft trigger for the public option thanks to Olympia Snowe. So keep talking about desperation while a more liberal bill is passed than would have passed under just the dems :).

Irony at it's best. The anti-socialist health care advocate is on Medicare.

I don't agree with your premise - there is quite a difference between agreeing to provide health care for the elderly (especially ones who have paid into it for decades) and agreeing to provide it for able-bodied workers. Also it's not unreasonable to be against the Democrat plan for other reasons besides being "anti-socialist". Personally I think the plan is strong on the services side but weak on the funding side.

Or, since Obama says he's going to pay for the new stuff with undisclosed, unquantified "savings and efficiencies" from Medicare, the guy might very well be upset as to why his program gets curtailed for the benefit of someone else. Call him selfish if you must find something to criticize, but there's nothing at all "ironic" in that.

The difference between paying into Medicare for decades and paying into private health via substantially larger premiums for decades? Medicare won't raise your premiums or deductables or drop you when you become sick. I have a friend dying at the hands of private insurerers as we speak. She will probably be dead before the year is out. Her mistake? Having private insurance over Medicare. She's not quite of age to receive it yet..almost...but not quite. She will fall through the permanent crack..

Good thing there were no loaded weapons involved when the anti-public option [on Medicare..lol.] guy slugged the pro-public guy. Things could've gotten a lot more ugly.

"Democracy is an impossible thing until the power is shared by all, but let not democracy degenerate into mobocracy." Gandhi

dear Mr. Gandhi, just wanted to let you know we are approaching the leading edge of mobocracy. . .


or perhaps it is a shockocracy since it is being lead by shock jocks?

"No. The Left has resorted to bullying whenever it can't get its way."

Wait... Let me get this straight... The guy who STARTED the fight was from the right, and the LEFT is the side doing the bullying? While biting off someone's finger is inexcusable, I don't know that you couldn't argue self defense for the other guy had he not run off.

Oddly enough, this comes out the same day as news about a fight breaking out at another town hall here in Alabama-- where the opponent to reform threw the first punch.

"The guy who STARTED the fight was from the right, and the LEFT is the side doing the bullying?"

The attacks on the public (including the large fraction that is strongly opposed to the public option, not just to the overall slightly negative view of the entire effort) by proponents, including the media, by using disruptive and worse events to try to smear everyone else through guilt-by-association portrayal using these worst protestors, have not gone unnoticed, though it's not surprising.

That this event ended sensationalistically with misconduct by the supporter, the act that was widely reported, is surprising -- it's "dog bites man."

* * *

"it looks like we are about to get a very lefty health care bill"

It remains to be seen, but the public option retains substantial support and the liberal Dems are strongly in favor of it (many of whom because they support the real reason for its being there, namely to replace privately-controlled and paid-for health care with federal government health care). I'll be interested in how Obama portrays this on September 9 (he'll probably be incorrect or misleading again) and what legislation finally results. It'll probably involve a modified public option, wholly unnecessary, and I'll be interested not only in the details of this thing but in what else is in the legislation, both actual reform elements and whatever silliness or largesse the Dems place in it.

The guy did not have his finger reattached

The "Snowe" compromise is a phased in "public option" with a trigger...the trigger being private insurance failing to rein in health care costs and provide broader coverage. Of course, the sources are anonymous as they always are with such trial balloons.

Btw - it's entertaining, but very very sad, watching the Righties call the Lefties bullies and the Lefties call the Righties bullies. This health care debate (my view) has now reached a point where opinions are hardened, nobody is likely to change anybody's mind, and both sides have been reduced to debasing the other. Why does it always have to come down to that?

Why are all these right wing nuts freaking out over nationalized healthcare? It works perfectly in virtually every modern nation. These people are irrational and their arguments are goofy.

“We don’t want the government running programs”-- What? Who the hell started this stupidity anyway?

The people control the government every two years via elections. You don’t control Insurance companies via elections. Giving Business Power over Government defeats your Constitutional power to bend Government to the Will of the People! What, you think “business” is going to, in any way what-so-ever, be concerned about you?

"Please don't miss the irony that the reform opponent, who had his finger bitten off and reattached, had Medicare for his medical expenses."

It's happened before. Horsey (good lib cartoonist) didn't neglect this.

http://www.seattlepi.com/horsey/viewbydate.asp?...

(What does he think of Dubya?)

http://www.seattlepi.com/horsey/empirerising/

I've already told the Editors they should use this guy's work to start threads on this site.

http://www.seattlepi.com/horsey/

All I know is... regardless of what side of the debate somebody's on, if you're gonna put your finger in somebody's mouth, you really shouldn't be surprised to have it bitten. (off)

Sorry, but I find this more funny than sad or enraging. The guy who threw the punch - and the guy who bit off the other man's finger - are both losers.

Let's be glad neither had guns. More than one person could have been injured or killed and it may have been an innocent bystander.

I'm not against guns but this does bring up a rather interesting point.... when you know the situation will be volatile should guns be allowed?

Like a moth to a lantern, DLS is drawn to anything that mentions "health care." One should wonder why.

"You don’t control Insurance companies via elections."

Actually, Father Time, you do. If you have a retirement account you're probably a shareholder in at least one health insurer. You get to control the company exactly like you control the government, by electing directors who will do your bidding.

On top of that, states have insurance commissioners you get to elect, who make sure insurance companies abide by their contracts. On top of that, you get to vote with your wallet, as the services of those disreputable insurers are opt-in. Well, that is, until the government makes opting out illegal.

How do we know no one had guns around? Because no one got shot? The left's view of gun-owners is showing again.

"The anti-socialist health care advocate is on Medicare."

He doesn't have a choice. The government forced him to pay into it his whole life. So if he wants to voice his opinion on expanding government, you would expect him to forfeit the benefit that he was forced to pay for?

"Or, since Obama says he's going to pay for the new stuff with undisclosed, unquantified "savings and efficiencies" from Medicare, the guy might very well be upset as to why his program gets curtailed for the benefit of someone else. "

Good point, especially since he has disclosed one of those "inefficiencies" called Medicare Advantage: http://sovereignmind.wordpress.com/2009/08/29/i...

"if you're gonna put your finger in somebody's mouth, you really shouldn't be surprised to have it bitten"

[grin]

That's what Conrad Dobler (rep as a dirtyfootball player) said after a complaint he bit someone's hand.

"I only bit one guy: Doug Sutherland of the Minnesota Vikings. He put his fingers through my face mask, and I don't think they were there to stroke my mustache. So I bite one finger in my life, and I don't even chew on it. The legend grew from there. It's almost like I'm worse than Jeffrey Dahmer."

http://www.esquire.com/features/what-ive-learne...

"He doesn't have a choice. The government forced him to pay into it his whole life."

Not only that, but his employer probably did what others have done, and put their sufficiently old retirees on Medicare (ending their employer health benefits). And even before it started happening, everyone who could think realized that employers would be tempted to drop drug coverage for retirees after Part D (the new drug benefit for Medicare) had been enacted.

Example:

http://knowledge.wpcarey.asu.edu/article.cfm?ar...

And, related to it, for example:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/04/business/04re...


And it was an obvious concern with expansion of S-CHIP.

http://www.ahrq.gov/chip/Content/crowd_out/crow...


And now, with the current Dem plan?

Of course, say the -- [sigh] -- proponents, there is no such problem at all with the "public option."

Of course, say knowledgeable people, it will happen, and this is the intention, no doubt, of some.

"when you know the situation will be volatile should guns be allowed"

We have no weapons allowed in court houses (and on dangerous school campuses), for example.

Please don't miss the irony that the reform opponent, who had his finger bitten off and reattached, had Medicare for his medical expenses.

And don't miss the reality that if he hadn't had to pay for those benefits as a taxpayer he would have had more money for private coverage. Good for him that he recovered some of the stolen money that was his.

Tax=theft is the extreme rights version of the extreme left from the 70's property=theft. Keep repeating it if you think it helps but I think you repel or amuse more than you can actually win over with that. If you do not want any of your money "stolen" I would suggest you move to a tropical island that no one else lives on. Don't take any money though because I would also assume that you think inflation=theft which means to avoid being stolen from you should just give it all away I suppose, otherwise reality will have to keep "stealing" from you.