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	<title>Comments on: Political Torture Wars: It&#8217;s Cheney Versus Obama Again (Cheney Vindicated Or Not?)</title>
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		<title>By: Wallace defends torture, snidely says it’s ‘purely coincidental’ U.S. hasn’t been attacked since 9/11. &#124; linkthe.com</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-209976</link>
		<dc:creator>Wallace defends torture, snidely says it’s ‘purely coincidental’ U.S. hasn’t been attacked since 9/11. &#124; linkthe.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 20:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Political Torture Wars: It&#8217;s Cheney Versus Obama Again (Cheney Vindicated Or Not?) (themoderatevoice.com) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Political Torture Wars: It&#8217;s Cheney Versus Obama Again (Cheney Vindicated Or Not?) (themoderatevoice.com) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cheney Endorses CIA Interrogators Going ‘Beyond The Specific Legal Authorization’ &#124; linkthe.com</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-209945</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheney Endorses CIA Interrogators Going ‘Beyond The Specific Legal Authorization’ &#124; linkthe.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-209945</guid>
		<description>[...] Political Torture Wars: It&#8217;s Cheney Versus Obama Again (Cheney Vindicated Or Not?) (themoderatevoice.com) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Political Torture Wars: It&#8217;s Cheney Versus Obama Again (Cheney Vindicated Or Not?) (themoderatevoice.com) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: btok</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-209100</link>
		<dc:creator>btok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:20:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-209100</guid>
		<description>“Charges of Treason”&lt;br&gt;We put a cover letter on a package of facts and scientific analyses regarding the controlled demolition of the WTC complex on September 11, 2001. The letter is here as follows, as well as the links to the scientific papers.&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://files.meetup.com/749288/NanoTh%E2%80%A6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://files.meetup.com/749288/NanoTh…&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://files.meetup.com/749288/The%2520%E2%80%A6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://files.meetup.com/749288/The%20…&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://files.meetup.com/749288/WTCHig%E2%80%A6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://files.meetup.com/749288/WTCHig…&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://files.meetup.com/749288/14%2520p%E2%80%A6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://files.meetup.com/749288/14%20p…&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;Plus: a brochure from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ae911truth.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.ae911truth.org&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;——————-&lt;br&gt;Dear Honorable Congress Person,&lt;br&gt;We the People, in order to restore rule of law and accountability to our Republic, respectfully insist that you, as an elected representative, squarely face the facts concerning the events of September 11, 2001 and the implications thereof.&lt;br&gt;It is our moral and civic duty to entrust to you facts and scientific analyses in the form of peer-reviewed, published scientific papers that clearly and conclusively prove thousands of our fellow human beings and citizens were murdered in controlled and criminal demolitions on September 11,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Plausible deniability of these facts and evidence is no longer possible. &lt;br&gt;If you fail to acknowledge and act immediately and decisively on this evidence, then your inaction will constitute misprision of treason in the least, outright treason at worst. The time is now to fulfill your oath to the Constitution and stand tall in the face of the corruption of our Republic. We the People stand with you.&lt;br&gt;Pursuant to U.S. Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 115&lt;br&gt;§ 2381. Treason&lt;br&gt;Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.&lt;br&gt;And § 2382. Misprision of Treason&lt;br&gt;Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States and having knowledge of the commission of any treason against them, conceals and does not, as soon as may be, disclose and make known the same to the President or to some judge of the United States, or to the governor or to some judge or justice of a particular State, is guilty of misprision of treason and shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than seven years, or both.&lt;br&gt;Sincerely,&lt;br&gt;WeAreChangeLA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Charges of Treason”<br />We put a cover letter on a package of facts and scientific analyses regarding the controlled demolition of the WTC complex on September 11, 2001. The letter is here as follows, as well as the links to the scientific papers.<br /><a href="http://files.meetup.com/749288/NanoTh%E2%80%A6" rel="nofollow">http://files.meetup.com/749288/NanoTh…</a><br /><a href="http://files.meetup.com/749288/The%2520%E2%80%A6" rel="nofollow">http://files.meetup.com/749288/The%20…</a><br /><a href="http://files.meetup.com/749288/WTCHig%E2%80%A6" rel="nofollow">http://files.meetup.com/749288/WTCHig…</a><br /><a href="http://files.meetup.com/749288/14%2520p%E2%80%A6" rel="nofollow">http://files.meetup.com/749288/14%20p…</a><br />Plus: a brochure from <a href="http://www.ae911truth.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.ae911truth.org</a><br />——————-<br />Dear Honorable Congress Person,<br />We the People, in order to restore rule of law and accountability to our Republic, respectfully insist that you, as an elected representative, squarely face the facts concerning the events of September 11, 2001 and the implications thereof.<br />It is our moral and civic duty to entrust to you facts and scientific analyses in the form of peer-reviewed, published scientific papers that clearly and conclusively prove thousands of our fellow human beings and citizens were murdered in controlled and criminal demolitions on September 11,</p>
<p>Plausible deniability of these facts and evidence is no longer possible. <br />If you fail to acknowledge and act immediately and decisively on this evidence, then your inaction will constitute misprision of treason in the least, outright treason at worst. The time is now to fulfill your oath to the Constitution and stand tall in the face of the corruption of our Republic. We the People stand with you.<br />Pursuant to U.S. Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 115<br />§ 2381. Treason<br />Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.<br />And § 2382. Misprision of Treason<br />Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States and having knowledge of the commission of any treason against them, conceals and does not, as soon as may be, disclose and make known the same to the President or to some judge of the United States, or to the governor or to some judge or justice of a particular State, is guilty of misprision of treason and shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than seven years, or both.<br />Sincerely,<br />WeAreChangeLA</p>
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		<title>By: btok</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-209097</link>
		<dc:creator>btok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Aug 2009 03:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-209097</guid>
		<description>While they are investigating I think they had better look into the CIA involvement with the WTC on 911.&lt;br&gt;I believe George Bush is in the PSYOP right up to his ears! I found this article on the Infowars News Website!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Re:“Charges of Treason”&lt;br&gt;We put a cover letter on a package of facts and scientific analyses regarding the controlled demolition of the WTC complex on September 11, 2001. The letter is here as follows, as well as the links to the scientific papers.&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://files.meetup.com/749288/NanoTh%E2%80%A6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://files.meetup.com/749288/NanoTh…&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://files.meetup.com/749288/The%2520%E2%80%A6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://files.meetup.com/749288/The%20…&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://files.meetup.com/749288/WTCHig%E2%80%A6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://files.meetup.com/749288/WTCHig…&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://files.meetup.com/749288/14%2520p%E2%80%A6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://files.meetup.com/749288/14%20p…&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;Plus: a brochure from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ae911truth.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.ae911truth.org&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;——————-&lt;br&gt;Dear Honorable Congress Person,&lt;br&gt;We the People, in order to restore rule of law and accountability to our Republic, respectfully insist that you, as an elected representative, squarely face the facts concerning the events of September 11, 2001 and the implications thereof.&lt;br&gt;It is our moral and civic duty to entrust to you facts and scientific analyses in the form of peer-reviewed, published scientific papers that clearly and conclusively prove thousands of our fellow human beings and citizens were murdered in controlled and criminal demolitions on September 11,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Plausible deniability of these facts and evidence is no longer possible. &lt;br&gt;If you fail to acknowledge and act immediately and decisively on this evidence, then your inaction will constitute misprision of treason in the least, outright treason at worst. The time is now to fulfill your oath to the Constitution and stand tall in the face of the corruption of our Republic. We the People stand with you.&lt;br&gt;Pursuant to U.S. Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 115&lt;br&gt;§ 2381. Treason&lt;br&gt;Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.&lt;br&gt;And § 2382. Misprision of Treason&lt;br&gt;Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States and having knowledge of the commission of any treason against them, conceals and does not, as soon as may be, disclose and make known the same to the President or to some judge of the United States, or to the governor or to some judge or justice of a particular State, is guilty of misprision of treason and shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than seven years, or both.&lt;br&gt;Sincerely,&lt;br&gt;WeAreChangeLA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While they are investigating I think they had better look into the CIA involvement with the WTC on 911.<br />I believe George Bush is in the PSYOP right up to his ears! I found this article on the Infowars News Website!</p>
<p>Re:“Charges of Treason”<br />We put a cover letter on a package of facts and scientific analyses regarding the controlled demolition of the WTC complex on September 11, 2001. The letter is here as follows, as well as the links to the scientific papers.<br /><a href="http://files.meetup.com/749288/NanoTh%E2%80%A6" rel="nofollow">http://files.meetup.com/749288/NanoTh…</a><br /><a href="http://files.meetup.com/749288/The%2520%E2%80%A6" rel="nofollow">http://files.meetup.com/749288/The%20…</a><br /><a href="http://files.meetup.com/749288/WTCHig%E2%80%A6" rel="nofollow">http://files.meetup.com/749288/WTCHig…</a><br /><a href="http://files.meetup.com/749288/14%2520p%E2%80%A6" rel="nofollow">http://files.meetup.com/749288/14%20p…</a><br />Plus: a brochure from <a href="http://www.ae911truth.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.ae911truth.org</a><br />——————-<br />Dear Honorable Congress Person,<br />We the People, in order to restore rule of law and accountability to our Republic, respectfully insist that you, as an elected representative, squarely face the facts concerning the events of September 11, 2001 and the implications thereof.<br />It is our moral and civic duty to entrust to you facts and scientific analyses in the form of peer-reviewed, published scientific papers that clearly and conclusively prove thousands of our fellow human beings and citizens were murdered in controlled and criminal demolitions on September 11,</p>
<p>Plausible deniability of these facts and evidence is no longer possible. <br />If you fail to acknowledge and act immediately and decisively on this evidence, then your inaction will constitute misprision of treason in the least, outright treason at worst. The time is now to fulfill your oath to the Constitution and stand tall in the face of the corruption of our Republic. We the People stand with you.<br />Pursuant to U.S. Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter 115<br />§ 2381. Treason<br />Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.<br />And § 2382. Misprision of Treason<br />Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States and having knowledge of the commission of any treason against them, conceals and does not, as soon as may be, disclose and make known the same to the President or to some judge of the United States, or to the governor or to some judge or justice of a particular State, is guilty of misprision of treason and shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than seven years, or both.<br />Sincerely,<br />WeAreChangeLA</p>
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		<title>By: shannonlee</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208966</link>
		<dc:creator>shannonlee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208966</guid>
		<description>As countries like NK and Iran become nuclear powers...with the instability in Pakistan...and who really knows if all of the former USSR&#039;s nuclear weapons are accounted for....and with nuclear weapon technology apparently for sale...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think a nuclear bomb going off in your back yard is a real threat.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I am not saying we should focus our entire defense policy on this threat, but to make believe it isn&#039;t real is foolish....and I think on your part Sil...just an excuse to help make a political point.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Lets put it this way...the fact that these kinds of threat are out there doesn&#039;t justify torture...but stopping this kind of imminent threat does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As countries like NK and Iran become nuclear powers&#8230;with the instability in Pakistan&#8230;and who really knows if all of the former USSR&#39;s nuclear weapons are accounted for&#8230;.and with nuclear weapon technology apparently for sale&#8230;</p>
<p>I think a nuclear bomb going off in your back yard is a real threat.</p>
<p>I am not saying we should focus our entire defense policy on this threat, but to make believe it isn&#39;t real is foolish&#8230;.and I think on your part Sil&#8230;just an excuse to help make a political point.</p>
<p>Lets put it this way&#8230;the fact that these kinds of threat are out there doesn&#39;t justify torture&#8230;but stopping this kind of imminent threat does.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208961</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208961</guid>
		<description>&quot;Nuclear attack my ass&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You need to free your head, Sil.  It&#039;s certainly possible.  A fission bomb is far from the only threat.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fas.org/faspir/2002/v55n2/dirtybomb.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.fas.org/faspir/2002/v55n2/dirtybomb.htm&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Nuclear attack my ass&#8221;</p>
<p>You need to free your head, Sil.  It&#39;s certainly possible.  A fission bomb is far from the only threat.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fas.org/faspir/2002/v55n2/dirtybomb.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.fas.org/faspir/2002/v55n2/dirtybomb.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208954</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208954</guid>
		<description>&quot;The whole thing looks like a wash to me neither strengthening nor weakening Cheney&#039;s claim. &quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s not really different from his AEI speech defending &quot;harsh interrogation&quot; and terrorism policy in general.  It puts lib Dems largely in their place, but will not be seen that way by much of the public, as Cheney then and now comes across as being too defensive and even apologetic, which is weak.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Meanwhile, the prosecution decision is heavily political and of a nature that backfires with Americans.  It just added to the taint of the health care effort and what the Dems may do after that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The whole thing looks like a wash to me neither strengthening nor weakening Cheney&#39;s claim. &#8220;</p>
<p>It&#39;s not really different from his AEI speech defending &#8220;harsh interrogation&#8221; and terrorism policy in general.  It puts lib Dems largely in their place, but will not be seen that way by much of the public, as Cheney then and now comes across as being too defensive and even apologetic, which is weak.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, the prosecution decision is heavily political and of a nature that backfires with Americans.  It just added to the taint of the health care effort and what the Dems may do after that.</p>
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		<title>By: Leonidas</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208776</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonidas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208776</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;We weren&#039;t born yesterday&lt;/blocquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If only this were true.  The American public, right, left, and center is played like so many fiddles by both parties and other interests.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>We weren&#39;t born yesterday&lt;/blocquote&gt;</p>
<p>If only this were true.  The American public, right, left, and center is played like so many fiddles by both parties and other interests.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Silhouette</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208761</link>
		<dc:creator>Silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 07:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208761</guid>
		<description>Nuclear attack my ass...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What these sheisters won&#039;t think of..?  We weren&#039;t born yesterday.  Their machinations are falling on leathered ears.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nuclear attack my ass&#8230;</p>
<p>What these sheisters won&#39;t think of..?  We weren&#39;t born yesterday.  Their machinations are falling on leathered ears.</p>
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		<title>By: Leonidas</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208740</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonidas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 05:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208740</guid>
		<description>The whole thing looks like a wash to me neither strengthening nor weakening Cheney&#039;s claim.  It seems to support that debriefings got useful information that saved lives, but does not indicate whether or not is was due to &quot;enhanced techniques&quot;.  The documents were heavily redacted so you can&#039;t really say that they don&#039;t include support for Cheney&#039;s assertion because of all the items you can&#039;t see, but you can&#039;t make a case that it supports him for the same reason. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;d say this hasn&#039;t shed much light on anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole thing looks like a wash to me neither strengthening nor weakening Cheney&#39;s claim.  It seems to support that debriefings got useful information that saved lives, but does not indicate whether or not is was due to &#8220;enhanced techniques&#8221;.  The documents were heavily redacted so you can&#39;t really say that they don&#39;t include support for Cheney&#39;s assertion because of all the items you can&#39;t see, but you can&#39;t make a case that it supports him for the same reason. </p>
<p>I&#39;d say this hasn&#39;t shed much light on anything.</p>
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		<title>By: casualobserver</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208718</link>
		<dc:creator>casualobserver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 03:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208718</guid>
		<description>This is indeed a welcome, and quite likely, consciously timed, distraction. It will take media attention away from healthcare and hopefully allow for a more subdued, brokered approach to healthcare legislation once the leases run out on the expensive vacation homes.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;shannonlee, we&#039;ve established in the other thread that this is a gathering of the intellectual elite. Therefore, you should know that this is everything political.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Obama is quietly escalating in the mideast and his Justice Dept is doing 85% of what Bush&#039;s Justice Dept did to keep all maneuvers available to them for WoT purposes.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Mark my words, this is a brightly colored toy to distract and pacify the left. Nobody above &quot;lieutenant&quot; grade will be implicated. I am confident enough in my read that I will buy Sil a share of Exxon preferred if I&#039;m wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is indeed a welcome, and quite likely, consciously timed, distraction. It will take media attention away from healthcare and hopefully allow for a more subdued, brokered approach to healthcare legislation once the leases run out on the expensive vacation homes.</p>
<p>shannonlee, we&#39;ve established in the other thread that this is a gathering of the intellectual elite. Therefore, you should know that this is everything political.</p>
<p>Obama is quietly escalating in the mideast and his Justice Dept is doing 85% of what Bush&#39;s Justice Dept did to keep all maneuvers available to them for WoT purposes.</p>
<p>Mark my words, this is a brightly colored toy to distract and pacify the left. Nobody above &#8220;lieutenant&#8221; grade will be implicated. I am confident enough in my read that I will buy Sil a share of Exxon preferred if I&#39;m wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208685</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208685</guid>
		<description>&quot;Without justice, is this country worth defending?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Actually, the questions are: a) What are the seekers of &quot;justice&quot; really seeking (and why)? and b) Why was this heavily political and risky controversial choice made now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Without justice, is this country worth defending?&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, the questions are: a) What are the seekers of &#8220;justice&#8221; really seeking (and why)? and b) Why was this heavily political and risky controversial choice made now?</p>
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		<title>By: shannonlee</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208679</link>
		<dc:creator>shannonlee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208679</guid>
		<description>Kritt...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Take the politics out.  It seems to me that this is justice vs national security.  Without justice, is this country worth defending?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kritt&#8230;</p>
<p>Take the politics out.  It seems to me that this is justice vs national security.  Without justice, is this country worth defending?</p>
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		<title>By: kritt11</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208659</link>
		<dc:creator>kritt11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208659</guid>
		<description>CS- &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think Obama feels pressure from the left to let the investigations go forward, and pressure from the right to stifle them in the name of national security. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But, that is different from welcoming this as a distraction. He knows this issue is a partisan time bomb that could easily blow up in his face- whether or not Holder gets to make the final decision..  I think the last thing  Obama wants is an all-out partisan war that would keep him from enacting his agenda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CS- </p>
<p>I think Obama feels pressure from the left to let the investigations go forward, and pressure from the right to stifle them in the name of national security. </p>
<p>But, that is different from welcoming this as a distraction. He knows this issue is a partisan time bomb that could easily blow up in his face- whether or not Holder gets to make the final decision..  I think the last thing  Obama wants is an all-out partisan war that would keep him from enacting his agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: RevDave</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208658</link>
		<dc:creator>RevDave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208658</guid>
		<description>What if the nuclear attack story was made up to cover up for despicable things people did trying to elicit intelligence information? Does that make the pardon ok?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That is a big part of this story in my opinion - some deranged people went too far in trying to protect our country and our constitution, and then lied repeatedly and totally fabricated evidence to cover it up.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Should we not know the true details of what went down, so we can help avoid in the future?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if the nuclear attack story was made up to cover up for despicable things people did trying to elicit intelligence information? Does that make the pardon ok?</p>
<p>That is a big part of this story in my opinion &#8211; some deranged people went too far in trying to protect our country and our constitution, and then lied repeatedly and totally fabricated evidence to cover it up.</p>
<p>Should we not know the true details of what went down, so we can help avoid in the future?</p>
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		<title>By: shannonlee</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208649</link>
		<dc:creator>shannonlee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208649</guid>
		<description>Sil...I understand what you are saying, but I believe the world would understand if Obama pardoned a person that stopped a nuclear attack.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think it works well in different ways, especially for the CIA in the field.  They know that yes, they will get prosecuted for breaking the law, but they also know that in extreme cases...nuclear attack...they might be pardoned.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Make them make that choice.  Is what I am about to do worth the risk?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sil&#8230;I understand what you are saying, but I believe the world would understand if Obama pardoned a person that stopped a nuclear attack.</p>
<p>I think it works well in different ways, especially for the CIA in the field.  They know that yes, they will get prosecuted for breaking the law, but they also know that in extreme cases&#8230;nuclear attack&#8230;they might be pardoned.</p>
<p>Make them make that choice.  Is what I am about to do worth the risk?</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208634</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208634</guid>
		<description>&quot;Is Holder supposed to follow in Gonzo&#039;s footsteps?&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;No, but that&#039;s not the point.  The point is that Obama is siding with the far, often radical and lunatic fringe, left, the Code Pink and Move On and other crazies.  (I don&#039;t think much or any of the motive is to provide another distraction for continued bad news of the failing health care plan and other bad news about how things have gone so far, including the latest fiscal and policy bad news.  Given Obama&#039;s own worsening behavior, it&#039;s possible this was timed to aid the health care effort and distract us from the release of the financial news and continued acts that are inept as well as badly rushed.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/08/25/ST2009082501309.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/st...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-GreenBusiness/idUSTRE57O5MO20090825&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-GreenBusines...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is highly political, obviously.  It&#039;s interesting that Obama and those involved with him, in making this very political decision, felt confident to put themselves in the place of the people he properly muzzled earlier in the year (such as in his speech about the prisoners at Guantanamo).  (Who knows, maybe this is a diversion tactic related to lack of timely and promised successful resolution of the Guanatano issue.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The following is the best published commentary about the decision, to date.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://sbk.online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203706604574371090019115348.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://sbk.online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;* * *&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Plenty who already agree yes but for those of us in the middle and on the left that thought that crimes have been committed may end up with documented proof.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;So many of us in the middle, as well as on the right*, object to torture, other crimes, the abuse at Abu Ghraib (the first taint of the Iraq effort), or the game-playing by the admin folks against the Congress when demands for information of all kinds on all issues were demanded (which, bad as it is, wasn&#039;t always in the wrong) -- why do you think the GOP did so badly in 2006 and in 2008?  Not only because the GOP acted like Dems Lite, and not only because of dissatisfaction with the Iraq war.  (Hints: Bush endorsements offered?  Bush endorsements solicited?)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That still doesn&#039;t negate that so much of the sentiment on the left, notably on the far left, for prosecution is simply one more manifestation of Bush (and Cheney) Derangement Syndrome (whose only competitor was Reagan Hatred in the 1980s), and that Obama is siding with the extremists and risking additional loss of his reputation among the mainstream (threatening an escalation of the disturbing pattern we have seen so far with radicalism-regurgitation with the Gates episode, the idiotic climate legislation, and more than ever, with health care -- this worsens, not improves, his position among intelligent mainstreamers).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This is Code Pink and the worst-of-the-lib-Dems-in-Congress baggage-laden political stooping by Obama.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The only question is, to what extent it is also a diversion and attempt to manipulate public opinion to stop the rising concern of the public about him and the Dems in Congress and what they are doing to us now.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;* For those who don&#039;t know, the true (not hyped or fictitious) far right is easily spotted: this group refuses to accept anything as &quot;torture,&quot; or they know but still don&#039;t care, and whether it&#039;s wrong or not, they heartily approve and even want more of it to be done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Is Holder supposed to follow in Gonzo&#39;s footsteps?&#8221;</p>
<p>No, but that&#39;s not the point.  The point is that Obama is siding with the far, often radical and lunatic fringe, left, the Code Pink and Move On and other crazies.  (I don&#39;t think much or any of the motive is to provide another distraction for continued bad news of the failing health care plan and other bad news about how things have gone so far, including the latest fiscal and policy bad news.  Given Obama&#39;s own worsening behavior, it&#39;s possible this was timed to aid the health care effort and distract us from the release of the financial news and continued acts that are inept as well as badly rushed.)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/08/25/ST2009082501309.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/st&#8230;</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-GreenBusiness/idUSTRE57O5MO20090825" rel="nofollow">http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-GreenBusines&#8230;</a></p>
<p>This is highly political, obviously.  It&#39;s interesting that Obama and those involved with him, in making this very political decision, felt confident to put themselves in the place of the people he properly muzzled earlier in the year (such as in his speech about the prisoners at Guantanamo).  (Who knows, maybe this is a diversion tactic related to lack of timely and promised successful resolution of the Guanatano issue.)</p>
<p>The following is the best published commentary about the decision, to date.</p>
<p><a href="http://sbk.online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203706604574371090019115348.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular" rel="nofollow">http://sbk.online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052&#8230;</a></p>
<p>* * *</p>
<p>&#8220;Plenty who already agree yes but for those of us in the middle and on the left that thought that crimes have been committed may end up with documented proof.&#8221;</p>
<p>So many of us in the middle, as well as on the right*, object to torture, other crimes, the abuse at Abu Ghraib (the first taint of the Iraq effort), or the game-playing by the admin folks against the Congress when demands for information of all kinds on all issues were demanded (which, bad as it is, wasn&#39;t always in the wrong) &#8212; why do you think the GOP did so badly in 2006 and in 2008?  Not only because the GOP acted like Dems Lite, and not only because of dissatisfaction with the Iraq war.  (Hints: Bush endorsements offered?  Bush endorsements solicited?)</p>
<p>That still doesn&#39;t negate that so much of the sentiment on the left, notably on the far left, for prosecution is simply one more manifestation of Bush (and Cheney) Derangement Syndrome (whose only competitor was Reagan Hatred in the 1980s), and that Obama is siding with the extremists and risking additional loss of his reputation among the mainstream (threatening an escalation of the disturbing pattern we have seen so far with radicalism-regurgitation with the Gates episode, the idiotic climate legislation, and more than ever, with health care &#8212; this worsens, not improves, his position among intelligent mainstreamers).</p>
<p>This is Code Pink and the worst-of-the-lib-Dems-in-Congress baggage-laden political stooping by Obama.</p>
<p>The only question is, to what extent it is also a diversion and attempt to manipulate public opinion to stop the rising concern of the public about him and the Dems in Congress and what they are doing to us now.</p>
<p>* For those who don&#39;t know, the true (not hyped or fictitious) far right is easily spotted: this group refuses to accept anything as &#8220;torture,&#8221; or they know but still don&#39;t care, and whether it&#39;s wrong or not, they heartily approve and even want more of it to be done.</p>
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		<title>By: Silhouette</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208627</link>
		<dc:creator>Silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208627</guid>
		<description>hmmmm....well if Obama pardoned them it would be like putting his stamp of approval on the matter.  So if this is a move to a prosecution then a pardon, the ineffectual nature of our justice system will not be lost on world observers.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This trial is about renewing our badly-needed credibility with the world.  Are we going to sacrafice our standing in the entire WORLD or string up a couple of A-holes who lied to Congress to get their friends into the oil fields for some serious monopoly-action?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Oh, yeah, and then tortured some dark-skinned people in order to get the &quot;stories&quot; straight for the press.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmmmm&#8230;.well if Obama pardoned them it would be like putting his stamp of approval on the matter.  So if this is a move to a prosecution then a pardon, the ineffectual nature of our justice system will not be lost on world observers.</p>
<p>This trial is about renewing our badly-needed credibility with the world.  Are we going to sacrafice our standing in the entire WORLD or string up a couple of A-holes who lied to Congress to get their friends into the oil fields for some serious monopoly-action?</p>
<p>Oh, yeah, and then tortured some dark-skinned people in order to get the &#8220;stories&#8221; straight for the press.</p>
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		<title>By: shannonlee</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208621</link>
		<dc:creator>shannonlee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:51:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208621</guid>
		<description>In my silly head, it should work this way.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If anyone broke the law during these interrogations, they should be prosecuted.  It does not matter what information came from the torture or how many lives have been saves...they should be prosecuted.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Now...after the truth comes out in a court of law...it is up to Obama to determined whether or not to pardon these people...I mean really, if they stopped another 911 by holding a drill to someone&#039;s head, they should be pardoned...prosecuted, but pardoned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my silly head, it should work this way.</p>
<p>If anyone broke the law during these interrogations, they should be prosecuted.  It does not matter what information came from the torture or how many lives have been saves&#8230;they should be prosecuted.</p>
<p>Now&#8230;after the truth comes out in a court of law&#8230;it is up to Obama to determined whether or not to pardon these people&#8230;I mean really, if they stopped another 911 by holding a drill to someone&#39;s head, they should be pardoned&#8230;prosecuted, but pardoned.</p>
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		<title>By: Silhouette</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/44354/political-torture-wars-its-cheney-versus-obama-versus-cheney-accuracy/comment-page-1/#comment-208610</link>
		<dc:creator>Silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:09:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44354#comment-208610</guid>
		<description>&quot;Anyone who participates in the coverup of a crime becomes an accessory after the fact in that crime. Why in the world should Obama or Holder become accessories to war crimes? Don&#039;t believe there were war crimes? Fine. That&#039;s what grand jury, indictment and trial are about. It is NOT for us to decide, and it is NOT a political game. It&#039;s crime and punishment according to a 200+ year history of ethical jurisprudence&quot;~Greendreams&lt;br&gt;******&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That&#039;s an excellent revelation.  Of course they would be guilty of accessory if they didn&#039;t prosecute.  All eyes will be on that prosecution around the world.  Every single minute of it.  If there seems to be any funny business on the AG&#039;s behalf, that won&#039;t go unnoticed.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Too many sharp people out there with too much access to media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Anyone who participates in the coverup of a crime becomes an accessory after the fact in that crime. Why in the world should Obama or Holder become accessories to war crimes? Don&#39;t believe there were war crimes? Fine. That&#39;s what grand jury, indictment and trial are about. It is NOT for us to decide, and it is NOT a political game. It&#39;s crime and punishment according to a 200+ year history of ethical jurisprudence&#8221;~Greendreams<br />******</p>
<p>That&#39;s an excellent revelation.  Of course they would be guilty of accessory if they didn&#39;t prosecute.  All eyes will be on that prosecution around the world.  Every single minute of it.  If there seems to be any funny business on the AG&#39;s behalf, that won&#39;t go unnoticed.</p>
<p>Too many sharp people out there with too much access to media.</p>
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