Comments on: Americans Demand ‘Freedom’ to Pay More for Less: Der Tagesspiegel, Germany http://themoderatevoice.com/44273/americans-demand-freedom-to-pay-more-for-less-der-tagesspiegel-germany/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:28:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/44273/americans-demand-freedom-to-pay-more-for-less-der-tagesspiegel-germany/comment-page-1/#comment-208509 DLS Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:45:34 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44273#comment-208509 I don't know why the foregoing got posted twice, when I only requested it once.<br><br>* * *<br><br>"No offense intended to Europe I just like being an American."<br><br>That is the normal stance of normal Americans.<br><br>And never mind the broadness of this subject overall. Look at one item and its related unpleasant facts.<br><br>Note that the Europeans and their role of government features a cost as well as presence of government (often afforded by letting the USA defend, and spend its own money to defend, Europe) that is even more unsustainable, in a future featuring worse demographic and resulting financial and social challenges, than the USA and its own unsustainable elderly-related programs currently are set to face.<br><br>This has hardly been anything new. [sigh]<br><br><a href="http://csis.org/program/global-aging-vulnerability-index" rel="nofollow">http://csis.org/program/global-aging-vulnerabil...</a><br><br><a href="http://csis.org/publication/global-aging-and-sustainability-public-pension-systems" rel="nofollow">http://csis.org/publication/global-aging-and-su...</a><br><br><a href="http://csis.org/event/economic-and-budgetary-implications-global-aging" rel="nofollow">http://csis.org/event/economic-and-budgetary-im...</a><br><br><br><a href="http://www.twq.com/02spring/hewitt.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.twq.com/02spring/hewitt.pdf</a> I don't know why the foregoing got posted twice, when I only requested it once.

* * *

“No offense intended to Europe I just like being an American.”

That is the normal stance of normal Americans.

And never mind the broadness of this subject overall. Look at one item and its related unpleasant facts.

Note that the Europeans and their role of government features a cost as well as presence of government (often afforded by letting the USA defend, and spend its own money to defend, Europe) that is even more unsustainable, in a future featuring worse demographic and resulting financial and social challenges, than the USA and its own unsustainable elderly-related programs currently are set to face.

This has hardly been anything new. [sigh]

http://csis.org/program/global-aging-vulnerabil…

http://csis.org/publication/global-aging-and-su…

http://csis.org/event/economic-and-budgetary-im…

http://www.twq.com/02spring/hewitt.pdf

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/44273/americans-demand-freedom-to-pay-more-for-less-der-tagesspiegel-germany/comment-page-1/#comment-208507 DLS Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:38:37 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44273#comment-208507 Americans don't want to be like Europeans and their "social democracy" (democratic socialism), with a much larger size and role played by government. We aren't a collectivist people and don't have ages of collectivism in our own heritage (nor rigid structure, which in Europe explains as well as includes things like feudalism as well as totalitarianism), but have merely flirted with this role of government at a remote and restricted form, sometimes out of perceived need or "default" (a common explanation of the resort to several New Deal measures during the Depression), but what's often sought by activists is alien to us.<br><br>It's a shame that the better models we have for comparison and perhaps imitation, aren't directed instead primarily toward Australia (and New Zealand), as well as Canada, the latter also for intra-continental consistency if not very-long-term possible union. Americans don't want to be like Europeans and their “social democracy” (democratic socialism), with a much larger size and role played by government. We aren't a collectivist people and don't have ages of collectivism in our own heritage (nor rigid structure, which in Europe explains as well as includes things like feudalism as well as totalitarianism), but have merely flirted with this role of government at a remote and restricted form, sometimes out of perceived need or “default” (a common explanation of the resort to several New Deal measures during the Depression), but what's often sought by activists is alien to us.

It's a shame that the better models we have for comparison and perhaps imitation, aren't directed instead primarily toward Australia (and New Zealand), as well as Canada, the latter also for intra-continental consistency if not very-long-term possible union.

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/44273/americans-demand-freedom-to-pay-more-for-less-der-tagesspiegel-germany/comment-page-1/#comment-208506 DLS Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:38:34 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44273#comment-208506 Americans don't want to be like Europeans and their "social democracy" (democratic socialism), with a much larger size and role played by government. We aren't a collectivist people and don't have ages of collectivism in our own heritage (nor rigid structure, which in Europe explains as well as includes things like feudalism as well as totalitarianism), but have merely flirted with this role of government at a remote and restricted form, sometimes out of perceived need or "default" (a common explanation of the resort to several New Deal measures during the Depression), but what's often sought by activists is alien to us.<br><br>It's a shame that the better models we have for comparison and perhaps imitation, aren't directed instead primarily toward Australia (and New Zealand), as well as Canada, the latter also for intra-continental consistency if not very-long-term possible union. Americans don't want to be like Europeans and their “social democracy” (democratic socialism), with a much larger size and role played by government. We aren't a collectivist people and don't have ages of collectivism in our own heritage (nor rigid structure, which in Europe explains as well as includes things like feudalism as well as totalitarianism), but have merely flirted with this role of government at a remote and restricted form, sometimes out of perceived need or “default” (a common explanation of the resort to several New Deal measures during the Depression), but what's often sought by activists is alien to us.

It's a shame that the better models we have for comparison and perhaps imitation, aren't directed instead primarily toward Australia (and New Zealand), as well as Canada, the latter also for intra-continental consistency if not very-long-term possible union.

]]> By: Leonidas http://themoderatevoice.com/44273/americans-demand-freedom-to-pay-more-for-less-der-tagesspiegel-germany/comment-page-1/#comment-208437 Leonidas Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:33:50 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44273#comment-208437 A comment from another European<br><br>"Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom."<br><br>-- Alexis de Tocqueville. How very accurate today. A comment from another European

“Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.”

– Alexis de Tocqueville. How very accurate today.

]]> By: Silhouette http://themoderatevoice.com/44273/americans-demand-freedom-to-pay-more-for-less-der-tagesspiegel-germany/comment-page-1/#comment-208433 Silhouette Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:18:27 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44273#comment-208433 I think for the most part that Europeans "get" what it means to walk the walk of being their brother's keeper while Americans have been raised to believe spiritual mandates such as that one are only important to pay lip service to while retaining the "right" to refuse to manifest it.<br><br>Americans aren't just bucking government rule they are bucking spiritual rule. For the most part these in-name-only christians are reserving the right to refuse to follow spiritual edicts and governance. I think for the most part that Europeans “get” what it means to walk the walk of being their brother's keeper while Americans have been raised to believe spiritual mandates such as that one are only important to pay lip service to while retaining the “right” to refuse to manifest it.

Americans aren't just bucking government rule they are bucking spiritual rule. For the most part these in-name-only christians are reserving the right to refuse to follow spiritual edicts and governance.

]]> By: Dr J http://themoderatevoice.com/44273/americans-demand-freedom-to-pay-more-for-less-der-tagesspiegel-germany/comment-page-1/#comment-208427 Dr J Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:54:00 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44273#comment-208427 Those crazy Americans. Their health care system is already the most expensive in the world and getting more so every year. Just one publicly run segment of it is facing a funding hole as big as the combined GDPs of every other country on the planet, which there isn't even a plan to close. And for some reason they're hesitating to expand it. There can be no explanation, other than they're a bunch of ideological nut-jobs.<br><br>Yeah, whatever you say, Helmut. Go lock up some holocaust deniers. Those crazy Americans. Their health care system is already the most expensive in the world and getting more so every year. Just one publicly run segment of it is facing a funding hole as big as the combined GDPs of every other country on the planet, which there isn't even a plan to close. And for some reason they're hesitating to expand it. There can be no explanation, other than they're a bunch of ideological nut-jobs.

Yeah, whatever you say, Helmut. Go lock up some holocaust deniers.

]]> By: Frith_Ra http://themoderatevoice.com/44273/americans-demand-freedom-to-pay-more-for-less-der-tagesspiegel-germany/comment-page-1/#comment-208424 Frith_Ra Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:45:37 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44273#comment-208424 in the early 1980's I spent a year in Europe & consider it a watershed time in my life. During that time I was hospitalized in Norway (1 day, my cost US$19) accidentally arrested in a Parisian riot (the pensione I was staying in was along the street most of the demonstrations were happening on. I was released almost immediately when they saw my passport) hitchhiked through 9 different countries & only had to show my passport at one border. & stayed in many individual homes allowing me an insight into the European mindset. <br><br> I also saw the "Alderhejm" or "old folks home" in Norway which my aunt moved into &, having some medical background, compared it with what is typical in the US for someone of her social/economic background & the US lost hands down. We don't really know respect for the elderly in this country.<br><br>The big "problem" as we in this country tend to see it is the issues of taxes. So why is it those "god hatin' commie pinko libruls" are willing to pay more taxes to support social programs they support than those "God fearin' amurica luvin' patriotic conservatives" are to support a war which they support? The typical European, at least among those I met, were happy to pay taxes which they knew were going to provide them a secure retirement & keep grandma around for as long as she wanted.<br><br>I can only think of one reason: greed. Could someone please disprove me? in the early 1980's I spent a year in Europe & consider it a watershed time in my life. During that time I was hospitalized in Norway (1 day, my cost US$19) accidentally arrested in a Parisian riot (the pensione I was staying in was along the street most of the demonstrations were happening on. I was released almost immediately when they saw my passport) hitchhiked through 9 different countries & only had to show my passport at one border. & stayed in many individual homes allowing me an insight into the European mindset.

I also saw the “Alderhejm” or “old folks home” in Norway which my aunt moved into &, having some medical background, compared it with what is typical in the US for someone of her social/economic background & the US lost hands down. We don't really know respect for the elderly in this country.

The big “problem” as we in this country tend to see it is the issues of taxes. So why is it those “god hatin' commie pinko libruls” are willing to pay more taxes to support social programs they support than those “God fearin' amurica luvin' patriotic conservatives” are to support a war which they support? The typical European, at least among those I met, were happy to pay taxes which they knew were going to provide them a secure retirement & keep grandma around for as long as she wanted.

I can only think of one reason: greed. Could someone please disprove me?

]]> By: Leonidas http://themoderatevoice.com/44273/americans-demand-freedom-to-pay-more-for-less-der-tagesspiegel-germany/comment-page-1/#comment-208394 Leonidas Tue, 25 Aug 2009 04:09:52 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44273#comment-208394 So how many Americans want to be a Europeans? I sure don't. So how many Americans want to be a Europeans? I sure don't.

]]> By: JSpencer http://themoderatevoice.com/44273/americans-demand-freedom-to-pay-more-for-less-der-tagesspiegel-germany/comment-page-1/#comment-208367 JSpencer Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:51:56 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=44273#comment-208367 The cartoon says it all I'm afraid. Marschall is right, most of the contention comes from ideological baggage. The simple realities and cures seem pretty obvious... to some of us. The cartoon says it all I'm afraid. Marschall is right, most of the contention comes from ideological baggage. The simple realities and cures seem pretty obvious… to some of us.

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