Note that up to last week the co-ops were nothing but a token additional item in the floating collection of junk associated with the public option (the main, incremental-takeover goal of choice here), and there never was any serious work done on co-ops or even consideration of it, it now is simply a kind of damage control measure, far from fully supported (whatever actually is being offered, that is; again this year we have to ask, do the Dems even actually know what they want, much less what they're writing in their legislation they aren't bothering to read?). The childish and militant throwing a tantrum in defense of the public option probably respect the co-op idea and pursuit even less than the intelligent skeptics of the entire effort and the public option claw-hold all-along.

???

Do you mean the liberal wing “in Congress” or do you mean about health care?

The problem with the health care effort is that it is the latest and worst example of the liberal Democrats running rampant, including the additional, further emergence or self-exposure of Obama as a liberal Democrat, rashly insisting on poor, destrucive, incoherent, sloppy legislation. The liberal wing of the Democrats is the party running amok in Washington, the inmates running the asylum. (This, as much as or more than the many problems with the health care goals and legislation specifically, is what has been increasingly concerning and repelling Americans.)

The liberal wing of the public, ranging from well left to truly fringist, is fractured (as the Dems in Washington are, losing coherence from this maximum ovrerreach to date this year). But the very farthest left is still largely behind the effort, and forms some of the silly-irrelevent picketers in support of the health care event (featuring bizarre, laughably false statements on their signs like “83% Loves the Public Option” and “Health Care Is A Right”).

Only a tiny number of these people are against the Obama plan out of total opposition to any private sector involvement. (They, like Steffie Woolhandler, at least are consistent.)

http://www.boston.com/news/health/articles/2009…

The others out there are not silent, but perhaps you misjudge or misinterpret bewilderment and confusion among these people because of the current obvious failing of the health care effort and growing public opposition to it, or the group's diminishing numbers, as even lefties develop concerns and say so (as the people from Huffington Post have, on CNN, for example, despite being punished for doing so by being so often interrupted and scoffed at, etc.., by the mindless supporters-and-defenders), for something else.

* * *

“I hope they don't go nuclear”

Me, too, for it would be something already identified as a deliberate, very unethical thing, and truly stooping even lower than the Dems have so far this year, notably so. But they've been so progressively worse in the past weeks that they've lost my confidence and I actually suspect they might do it. Even after the climate bill degeneracy, I didn't think they'd actually stoop to the ramrod bypass. Even at the start of their health care idiocy I didn't think they'd do it (I thought that if they had any brains they'd scramble to slow down and reduce their incoherence, for starters). But the Dems have lost my confidence now — they really might do the bypass.

Which brings us to an alternative universe momentarily, before returning to here and now:

“The reality is that all americans want the public option, whether they realize it now or not. And when they get it, they will be thankful.”

Oh, I'm sure that universe is splendid, wherever it is. However, there's an unintended kernel of truth in what you wrote, Sil. For that's the imperial and elitist and removed attitude so many Dems and Obama, even, have currently. And as I've correctly written before, we needn't stop here, or with other legislation that of course should be passed for the same “reasons.” We should simply have all of government permanently run by Dems and have no more elections, for they already know all that we need to know.

(That is combined with ineptitude, childish rushing, experimentation-on-the-fly, and other Dem follies in addition to wrongful, harmful goals and legislation on record already this year, increasingly so.)

Thanks for the reply. But whoa whoa whoa, you want tax reform too for small businesses? What magical fairy land are you talking about?! lol

I guess we're still all waiting for someone to read the 1200 page Democratic bill and attempt to explain it. What an inept show of leadership. bleh

ROTFLMAO

“The reality is that all americans want the public option, whether they realize it now or not”

I'll counter that bit of Psychic mindreading with my own

The reality is that all Americans want the Easter Bunny to descend from a UFO and grant us all perfect health whether they realize it or not.

or maybe

The reality is that all Americans want government to stop driving up costs and enable us to buy affordable healthcare without having our freedoms encroached upon.whether they realize it or not.

Comeon everyone tell us what you think all Americans want whether they know it or not, its FUN!!!!

“…businessmen, both large and small, are sick and tired of fiddling with health insurance”

that the truth, for a small businessman the government requirements, taxes and insurance are all big pains and enough to make you wish yu were still an employeee at times. All your work and risk to see so much return taken from you.

“So wait, you're eager for more GOP legislation like the Medicare Drug plan?”

Nope. I didn't say I liked more government involvement in this fashion, just pointing out that when the GOP was in power they did act on Healthcare. I did like the other items I listed however. Think they were great ideas.

The reality is that all americans want the public option, whether they realize it now or not. And when they get it, they will be thankful. The newness of it, the ease with which they can access health care without worry or fret will not be lost on them election 2010, no matter what wild rumors are flying around today trying to herd everyone in line.

The partisan play may pick up some support right now but if dems totally ignore it and get the public option, they will be rewarded with praise no matter what, even from those who say they're stalwartly against it right now in a kneejerk fashion.

Obviously, Craighardy is not involved in business, if he was, he would know that businessmen, both large and small, are sick and tired of fiddling with health insurance.

No employer likes seeing an employee go broke because the businessman made the wrong choice in plans. You think watching an employee getting screwed gladdens an employer's heart? Yet, no one knows whether they have purchased a good plan (and price is not always the deciding factor) or a bad one until a crisis occurs. Companies can spend $500 and up per month, only to find that it was money wasted because nobody can read a policy and nobody knows what “side deals” insurance companies cut with different providers.

So instead of addressing escalating costs, and all the other concerns centerrights have, Criaghardy, simply says “No” and offers nothing to solve the problems. The status quo is unsustainable. Do you know what that means? It means that maintaining the status quo will cause the system to fall by it's own weight.

Until I start hearing real changes being offered by people like Craighardy, I must ignore them. I wish other employers would speak out this way, but things are so uncertain right know that they can't.

Yes look at that Poll. Howmany democrats thought it was extremely important? 61% How many Republicans felt it was extremely important 58% Gee thats a good show of support isn't it? Or Is it?

The question

In any health care proposal, how important do you feel it is to give people a choice of both a public plan administered by the federal government and a private plan for their health insurance–extremely important, quite important, not that important, or not at all important?

How a democrat might see it:

How important is it to have a government run program for healthcare?

How a Republican might see it:

How important is it that private options still be available if the government instituted public healthcare?

Two very different perceptions. I don't think anyone here believes for a second that Republicans support government run healthcare almost the same amount that Democrats do.

So your right to be skepitical of poll questions, just as I disregard that 77% figure as a sign of approval of a public option. But when Obama and democrats numbers drop across all the polls and when for the first time in 2 years Republicans are polled as more trusted on healthcare than democrats, I have to think there is some reality there.

Keep your skepticism is a good thing, but don't hold on too it too hard.

So wait, you're eager for more GOP legislation like the Medicare Drug plan? Also Obama is at 45% for attempting to please the Republicans, not the Democrats, and therefore pissed off both. Bipartisanship is dead, unless you're Republican. Then you enjoy broad bipartisan support for foreign wars that cost trillions that no one but “teh crazy left” protests.