Comments on: Loving and Leaving Afghanistan

By: Conventional Folly » The fundamentals of counterinsurgency

Conventional Folly » The fundamentals of counterinsurgency — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 22:48:27 +0000

[...] is a response to Jazz’s post from earlier today. Like Jazz, I am disheartened by the carnage in Afghanistan and the lack of [...]

By: shannonlee

shannonlee — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 17:50:34 +0000

I agree with Jazz and elrod on this one. We should be ramping up operations in Afghanistan.

By: HemmD

HemmD — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:32:18 +0000

Jazz certainly has my condolences for the flak he's taken for calling one war good and one bad. For some elements on the Left, both wars register equally wrong, and making that argument of distinction has brought down similar criticism on my head. It may well be worthwhile to realize that in part, Afghanistan's grinding violence on public popular support because of the Iraqi debacle. The blood and treasure squandered in Iraq has made people turn away from the just cause that led us to Afghanistan. Even though one war may have been good and one bad, I wish to point out a terrible linkage that isn't usually discussed.

When SBL and the leadership of AQ were trapped in Tora Bora and the surrounding area, America lost its only real chance at obliterating this organization. A few more daisy cutters then would no doubt have changed the politics of terrorism that led us into Iraq. I see irony in the fact that Shia subsequently killed in Iraq owe their death to a missed opportunity to eviscerate a Sunni terrorist group in Afghanistan. Iran's Shia strength comes in part from Sunni organizations opposing them along religious lines.

We Americans don't usually see the mid-east as anything more than as the politics of oil or the religious battle between Jew and Arab. The real religious struggle there is between Sunni and Shia. Compare their politics with our wars during the Reformation. Protestant and Catholic wars in Europe have nothing on the animus alive in the Islamic world.

It is that fact that makes our actions in the region all the more ironic. Our failure to eliminate OBL while killing thousands from both clans has only helped keep the sides angry and active. Becoming the enemy of both is not much of a plan to help with a reconciliation. It may not be our job to reconcile these camps, but throwing gas on the fire is also not right move either.

By: Lynnehs

Lynnehs — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:31:07 +0000

I agree that the war in Afghanistan was necessary and that the one in Iraq was not. Unfortunately, pouring so many troops, and so much money and other resources into Iraq meant that we didn't have as many troops and resources for finding bin Laden. I don't think supporters for the war in Iraq really appreciated how difficult it is to fight two wars simultaneously. We may have done brilliantly in Afghanistan if it had been our sole focus, but we'll never know now. As for what to do now, I really don't know.

By: Loving and Leaving Afghanistan | The Moderate Voice | Afghanistan Today

Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:50:44 +0000

[...] that enjoyed by the invasion and occupation of Iraq, according to a new poll at the. More here: Loving and Leaving Afghanistan | The Moderate Voice Share and [...]

By: Father_Time

Father_Time — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:45:48 +0000

WAPO poll?

What do we elect a government for anyway? To criticize and demonize at every turn or to make decisions by which we decide if or not we re-elect them?

If it is NOT worth fighting for then leave immediately. If it IS, then fight the damn thing until it is NOT anymore!

By: elrod

elrod — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:42:05 +0000

I think Jazz's formulation is right in the end. 9/11 was planned and launched from inside Afghanistan, and by the very same people fighting to reclaim that country. With Pakistan finally forcing the Taliban out of much of its safe haven, and Afghanistan holding elections today, it seems that now is a perfect time to ramp UP operations against the Taliban in Afghanistan, not down.

By: DaGoat

DaGoat — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 14:11:20 +0000

I don't see a winning scenario in Afghanistan happening anytime soon. The situation is quite a bit different than Iraq and probably has more quagmire potential. In Obama's favor is the people who were anti-war up until last November don't seem to be paying much attention any more.

By: GeorgeSorwell

GeorgeSorwell — Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:42:06 +0000

I would also like to get us out of Afghanistan. My patience is pretty thin.

But once it wears out, what am I supposed to do? Vote for the party of Glenn Beck?