If many more soldiers did the things the “Abu Ghraib” way then you have a case, friend.

Abu Ghraib is the case we know about, and I would not be shocked that for every Abu Ghraib that made it to the sunlight, there are another half a dozen cases that don't know about…

War sucks, DQ. And innocents get caught in the crossfire (which is why war sucks).

Which is why war should be the last resort. the ultimate war crime, is launching an unprovoked attack upon another state, another country.

Let me stop. We are rehashing the Iraq War. And passions are still too high on that subject. We just have to agree to disagree on this one, DQ.

The problem is that ten years from now when the next Republican President needing to bump up his approval ratings, finds a nice defenseless third world rat-hole to bomb to smithereen all the people who supported the invasion & occupation of Iraq will be there supporting this new invasion/occupation.

Shock and awe was targeted at the Iraqi military and those of Saddam's regime. War sucks, DQ. And innocents get caught in the crossfire (which is why war sucks). That has been going on since humans have fought wars. But are you saying the shock and awe was targeted at innocents only? That it was a conscious decision to go after civilians?

Let me stop. We are rehashing the Iraq War. And passions are still too high on that subject. We just have to agree to disagree on this one, DQ.

This is where we absolutely disagree. Bush, Cheney & company are evil & depraved. Just because the NAZI were evil & depraved does not mean that all evil & depraved people are NAZIs.

American soldiers did not systematically kill Iraqis the way the Nazis did to the Jews.

What do you think Shock & Awe was about? Dropping flowers on beautiful women… It was about killing people lots of people, defenseless people.

Nazis destroyed and rubbed salt in the wound for giggles.

What the f*ck do you think we were doing at Abu Ghraib, humanitarian work?

And Republican, Democrat, or Independant… Crazy is still crazy.

@ PWT

“However, it would seem that the only obstruction is coming from moderate and conservative Democrats and that the Hitler comparisons are coming from the Left (and they should know, Hitler was a true Leftist at heart).”

That quote is a gem, I must say. You managed to state that the Hitler comparisons were coming from the left AND compare the president to Hitler in the same sentence! Well played, sir!

@ Slamfu

“Obama wants to bring about a national healthcare system. That's what Hitler did right? I see nothing wrong with this comparison.”

Hitler also read the Bible. Hitler was a good speaker and a very influential person, but then so are a lot of people. What's your point? Technically, I could take any random thing about someone and voila! I have a Hitler comparison! Are you seriously insinuating that trying to make health care more available is equivalent to genocide or even remotely hinting at leading to such?

So I've been paying attention. If Bush was depraved and evil WE WOULD NOT HAVE A USA RIGHT NOW. This world be the Third Reich Revisted. And this economic crisis would be child's play compared to what would have been wrought.

But I just can't find the depravity, insanity, murder, and evil in Bush and Obama.

Obviously you haven't been paying attention, one of those men started a war against a country that had never attacked the US, that had not sponsored any acts of terrorism against the US and that had no Weapons of Mass Destruction. Said war has created a couple million refugees, killed at least half a million Civilians and devastated economically and destabilized politically an entire region of the globe.

I would consider any man who did all the above depraved and evil.

Slamfu wrote: “Obama wants to bring about a national healthcare system. That's what Hitler did right?”

NO Slamfu, Germany's National Health Care System dates back to Otto von Bismarck's Health Insurance Act of 1883. Hitler inherited it kinda like Obama inherited the Republicans Recession and Multitrillion dollar deficit.

Hitler did have Death Panels though maybe that's where your confusion comes from. Getting a little too much Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh, eh?

And good on you , Barney “Rumble!!!”
This Nazi comparison crap has got to end, regardless of who is doing it.

Am I smoking crack or were Nazi policies some of the most depraved, insane, murderous, and downright evil polices ever? And apparently we have elected two Presidents (Bush and Obama) that are Nazis? WOW! We Americans are so stupid. WE ELECTED NAZIS! But I just can't find the depravity, insanity, murder, and evil in Bush and Obama. But they are Nazis nevertheless. Whatever…

Dorian wrote: “No need to apologize… Easy to see where you got confused.”

I don't think “just an opportunistic post of a vaguely-related talking point.” was an apology.

Sorry that Republicans aren't the enemy in this fight, the enemy comes from within. You still fail to realize that as you talk of Republicans out to 'kill the bill' in a comment thread about a posting that has been entirely discredited. Nothing is stopping Democrats from 'going it alone' but Democrats. They went it alone on the Stimulus Bill in the House, why not with Healthcare?

There must be more to it…..

Since it looks like Republicans are out to kill the bill, regardless, there has been a move and a mood in the last few days, to actually fight the lies and the fear mongering, and to finally show some spine. That's what I was commending Frank for.

You'll see a couple of other of my commenst elsewhere along the same lines, and along the lines that it might be time to just go it alone.

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/18/video-bar…
http://www.necn.com/Boston/NECN-Extra/2009/08/1…

One: ["Why are you supporting this Nazi policy?"]

Two: ["On what planet do you spend most of your time?" ... "Trying to have a conversation with you would be like arguing with a dining room table."].

Which is 7 years old and which is 10?

Why not say something like

“I don’t equate trying to provide health care to all USA citizens as being a NAZI tenant or policy. I know many are opposed to the idea of government in the health care system, but there is a desire for improvements to the system. Improvements being considered are governmental health care, altering private systems, and others. While I am supporting __________, I hear you when you say you do not support the bill. I respect your opinion and freedom to so choose, but the majority of my constituents support some modification to the health care system and government provided health care. I hope you agree that providing health care to all USA citizens is worth discussing even if you don’t agree with the proposed method.”

I agree that people get their backs up and feel “attacked” when people disagree with their opinions. What we need to remember is that which is discussed in the Federalist Paper #10–we will all have differences of opinion and need to respect that we all can, and will, have differences of opinion. The answer is not to silence the opposition but to discuss, openly, and protect the rights of all involved.

However, I don't think either party attempted to help solve the problem. Rather, I think they both got their back up and went on the attack… Sad, that type of thought/action hurts us all.

“It turns out that the person using the Hitler remark to Frank was a LaRouche Democrat: http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/200…

Whoopsie, D.E.R! You were a little quick on your partisan assumptions there. ”

commenting on my remark:

“About time Democrats start showing some spine and start fighting back the lies and the slime”

Whoopsie, Jaso, where do I say anything about the Nazi remark?

I watched some of Barnie Frank's townhall meeting and stand solidly by my comments: “About time Democrats start showing some spine and start fighting back the lies and the slime”

Diitto on your comments PWT.