In the US “junior doctors” (interns) make between $30,000 and $50,000 a year so I don't think you comparing the wages of first year physicians to what doctors make is a valid one.

And I am pretty damn sure that your average British doctor does not have a tenth of the college debt you average American doctor has coming out of school.

redbus wrote: “junior doctors in their first year earn about £ 33,000. At current exchange rates, that's about $ 54,000.00.”

In the US “junior doctors' (interns) make between $30,000 and $50,000 a year so I don't think you comparing the wages of first year physicians to what doctors make is a valid one.

I understand what you are saying, but I look it at this way.

Republicans used raw power, and “jammed thorugh theit agenda,” on issues that were outright wrong and devastating to our country (e.g. the Iraq war. the Bush economic disaster, etc.,) and. yes, they “quickly found themselves in the looney bin.”

Health care reform is the right issue, is the right thing to do, and if it weren't for the Republican lies, misinformation and fear mongering, an overwhelming percentage of Amwericans would support it.

As it is, even with all the treacherous Republican tactics, on the overall health plan it is still a close call.

You say ” I'm really not sure what kind of health care reform the Dems could come up with that the Repubs could support; perhaps there really isn't one.” I believe the latter part of your statement is, sadly, the truth.

So, for a change, let's do what we think is right for America, for the people and let's take our chances.

Finally, I totally agree with you that “so far it seems the Dems have done a disastrous job of delivering the message.”

That's the problem, not the plan, and finally people like Barney Franks are beginning to show some spine

And most of the fear comes from old folks who aren't effected anyways since they are already under a government plan.Because those people aren't afraid of a govt plan that they saw as a contract which had them paying into the system for 40+ years and then drawing out of during their retirement- which is not what is currently being proposed. Add to that the fact that the currently proposed public plan will need to be funded partly by cutting their benefits, and it's hardly a surprise that they're opposing it.

Just Googled these words: “average income doctor U.K.” According to the NHS website, junior doctors in their first year earn about £ 33,000. At current exchange rates, that's about $ 54,000.00. So, no, my 60K figure probably wasn't that far off. And BTW, in the bill that passed the House, it talks about paying general practitioners the same as specialists, so why would anyone want to take on more debt to study a speciality? You can put a lot of stupid stuff in a bill over 1,100 pages long!

casual: “other than fully nationalized control of healthcare”

There are a few extreme lefties who would very much like fully nationalized control of healthcare. Of the lefties on this board, I haven't seen a single one. Where are you getting this?

superdestroyer is hilarious as always. I guess he can't deal with the fact that statistically, blue states are more wealthy and therefore pay more taxes than red states, with the one exception of Texas. So that's the unproductive 60%? I guess there is an argument to be made that low paying jobs certainly are a lot more difficult in many ways, and people doing manual labor built this country in any literal sense, but something tells me that's not what he meant. It's like that totally giggle-inducing term “limosine liberal” — like, if you feel it's your duty to pay taxes on your own wealth, the right-wingers don't think you deserve that wealth in the first place. Like having wealth at all makes a liberal a hypocrite.

That is the question…do they have the courage? Are they the cowards that the right portrays them to be?? If they can't pass health care reform while having full control of both houses and the wh…how can they protect us for terrorists?

This is what Dems are going to see in 2010 and 2012…
“They had complete control of the government and still couldn't pass their agenda. Are these the kind of people you want representing you?”

I'm sorry, but can you point to more than TWO issues where the Republicans have compromised on ANYTHING that made it into law.

Compromise is a two way street. What the Republicans have demonstrated is the GWB manner of compromise. My way or the highway.

I've been involved in multimillion dollar negotiations with companies such as Kraft. If one side, or the other negotiated in this manner, the other side typically walks away from the table.

Core Republicans are about 1/3 of their party. 33% support them no matter what they do. In order to get elected, politicians Democrats or Republicans, have to bring in the support of the rest of their party and independents.

Sorry, but until the Republicans understand this, the more they are going to lose elections.

YEAH! You da MAN Barney! Just tell them Wackos that they are indeed Wackos! It's the humane thing to do anyway.

What does being non-productive have to do with garbage pick-up? I work next to some housing projects in NYC, where I would assume that a large number of the residents would be considered non-productive, and there is no problem with garbage pick-up. So, what are you talking about?

Imagine if you will the reverse scenario. The GOP would go hog-wild without batting an eyelash as to what dems think. As a matter of “style and priciple” they would give anyone left of Boehner the middle finger and laugh all the way to the bank.

superdestroyer,
Why do you hate America?

DaGoat,
Most Americans want a public plan… it's the nebulous totality of reform that they are scared about. And most of the fear comes from old folks who aren't effected anyways since they are already under a government plan.

casualobserver,
If only Democrats in Washington actually wanted a totally government run program. How nice would it be to be able to any doctor in the country and merely show them proof of citizenship to get care.

I guess it's a good thing we have all those management types who make up the 'productive' part of our society.

Why don't you just say that you don't want your tax money going to help the less fortunate and be done with it?

And who the heck are you to call low-wage earners “unproductive”? Try living without garbage pickup – I bet you'll value it plenty in a couple of weeks.