Cons worse than Libs: 2
Libs worse than Cons: 1
Tidbits annoying to both: Unanimous

Punchback: Please add “hypocrite” to list of namecalling . Thanks AR. Please take that in the good humor in which it is offered. Hypocrite is a favorite name call for both sides.

I better be nice. I like both AR and Mikkel and have had numerous respectful exchanges with each. Anthonygood I'm not so familiar with, but I'm sure you're a really likeable sort, and probalby very intelligent.

Frankly, I don't care about the truth of the “Truther” conspiracy…it isn't worth the time of day. Any more than the Skull&Bones whisper campaign against GWB (is it a Satanic Cult? a secret society bent on world domination? Both? Do they really drink blood as part of the initiation?) Don't Care ! Don't Care! It's all garbage and both sides do it…that…honest to God, is my only point.

That you find credence to GWB stealing the 2000 election has some basis in reality? OK, good for you. Avid conservatives would argue conversely that there is some basis in reality for claiming BHO has a socialist agenda.

See, you guys all claim the same thing from opposite sides. My name calling has some basis in reality but “theirs” doesn't.

Why can't you stop this nonsense and have civil discussions about real issues instead of calling each other “liar”, “Nazi”, “illegal alien”, “9/11 conspirator”, “Satanic cult worshipper”, warmonger”, “wingnut”, “tin foil hat brigade”. In the name of God will you ever get tired enough of pointing the finger at the other side that you will actually address issues?

Apologies in advance for the tone of this comment. I have just had it with the finger pointing crap from both sides.

Isn't that an exact description of the Left toward Bush? Hypocrisy.Hypocrisy. Hypocrisy.

They refused to give him any credit toward his work and progress with Africa (Bono brags about refusing to shake his hand, while at the same time being one of the few willing to acknowledge he did indeed do a lot).

Go find me the plethora of quotes from Democratic leaders and Left-wing commentators praising Bush, other than early on when they did so out of self-preservation during that initial upwelling of Pro-Americanism (which many on the left admitted made them comfortable. After all, no one they knew actually LIKED America. We deserved 9/11, more than a few said)

To me, this post shows again how the Left feels that when they do something it is OK, but when others do it to them, it must be quashed!

I never considered the “9/11 Truther” movement as liberal. I can't say I've studied it thoroughly, but it's been my impression that it was more of the Libertarian types and those who hate all government who were behind this conspiracy theory, but not hardcore GOPers and not a large number of those on the left. In any case it certainly hasn't gotten the airtime that any of the Obama attacks have. Can you honestly say that the percentage of Democrats who believe that the Bush orchestrated 9/11 is anywhere close to the percentage of Republicans who believe Obama was born in Kenya?

* This is literally what Colin Powell said when given the intel to present to the UN.

Cons worse than Libs: 1
Libs wose than Cons:0

Punchback: anthonygood forgot to mention that Bush was accused of stealing the 2000 election; was touted as lazy; accused of letting Cheney run the White House; Lib “Truthers” developed the lovely conspiracy theory that the White House orchestrated 9/11; that he lied about Iraq to start a war (or finish his daddy's war), and that he was the worst baseball owner of all time.

I'd like to see a social experiment conducted. Craft two different emails with equally outlandish claims about Obama and Palin. Send the emails out to 500 random email addresses. I would bet the farm in two weeks the Obama email material is front page news and variants of the email are still around five years from now. The Palin email gets some blog airtime, a lawsuit threat on Palin's Facebook page, and disappears.

Crazy idea: let's all take responsibility for our own and stop pointing the finger at others.

Time for a Budweiser. Carry on.

This is so true. I have an equal number of left and right wing friends. Throughout the presidential race last year, I received no left wing wingnut chain emails. If I printed out the right wing ones, I'd have a small book. What's really scary is that these live on today. The whole birther movement was created by a chain email.

It's become nearly impossible for me to discuss politics with conservative friends. You spend too much time Googling and debunking stuff they hit you with that they read in chain email hoaxes or heard on Limbaugh/Beck/Hannity/O'Reilly the day before, material that is just outright wrong. If it's not that, you're trying to explain to them what the difference is between socialism, fascism, and Communism and why Democrats are different from Nazis. It's frustrating. It used to be enjoyable to debate politics. Now it's like trying to jog behind a manure spreader, and the right is keeping it full.

Testify brother. Give a conservative any story that ties in with what they believe already, however loosely, and you don't even need evidence to make it a talking point. That seems to be the ongoing pattern with the right. And I'm not just talking a misreported issue that later gets clarified and/or retracted, it stays in the conservative media forever no matter how badly its refuted by later evidence. Lingering like a bad smell that never quite goes away. Most of the men in my family are college educated, well off, card carrying members of the GOP, and absolutely believe that Clinton killed Vince Foster. It boggles the mind.

And that would be a continuation of the tit for tat dynamic, which is counterproductive in itself. Let's not forget the degrees to which criticism occurs though, meaning the whens and whys. The abandoning of context and giving in to the tit for tat reflex really sets the stage for the false equivalence roro80 referred to.

Don't forget that during the 80s the government supported (either directly or at the very least stood to the side) the development of the inner city drug trade — including the rise of crack cocaine — because the money was funding the anti-Communist contras. The stain of that is indelible.

@smithmj- in your initial comment, you didn't specify that you were referring to people who “oppose every policy a President supports”, you were referring to people who oppose the current health insurance reform plan. And I realize that you think that anyone who opposes it but is OK with Medicare is a hypocrite (I happen to disagree, and I think the folks you're talking to just don't seem to be able to articulate why they accept one but not the other, but that's a side point…) but opposing the current healthcare plan, even for reasons that you don't agree with, still doesn't lump all of those people into the category of people who might want Obama to fail because of political gamesmanship.

No, this hasn't increased, the sides have just flipped so now you notice it more. When Bush was criticized in hyperbolic and vitriolic fashion and some of us pointed out the extremes it was going to, we were often told that this was just the result of the Clinton derangement. And so it goes- next time we have a GOP president, he/she will be demonized by the left and some people here will say that it's justified because of the way Obama was treated.

Amen and thank you!

As for the Limbaughs and Becks, it doesn't take a genius to understand they are promoting themselves first and an ideology second ( or 3rd, 4th, etc.). Btw, who exactly are the media “parasites” on the left who have as long and “popular” a legacy of creating and feeding on division as Limbaugh (and imitators)?

I read that article by Lind a few days ago, and it's such a pile of dreck. It's actually NOT as crazy as the birther movement or the deather movement for black people to have a conspiracy theory that the government created AIDS. The US intelligence agencies do have a long and ugly history of targeting the black community (remember that little thing where the FBI tried to pay MLK Jr to commit suicide? remember the forced sterilization of poor black women? Anyone remember that?) And really, the AIDS epidemic was set back so, so far by the fact that Ronald Reagan basically ignored it, due to the fact that it was mostly a black thing and a gay thing. So while it's still a conspiracy theory only actually believed by a small fringe, there's some historical reasons why black people are extremely wary of the government. Not to mention the fact that it is NOT a conspiracy theory that anyone of any sway has trotted out on the evening news over and over and over again.

I also find it interesting that the link you have for how the Dems in 2005 were just as bad at town halls as the Reps now specifically says the opposite: they were nowhere near the sorts of behavior we're seeing now. Not to mention, maybe the Dems were on to something in that whole “let's actually NOT leave Social Security up the whims of the stock market” thing. You know?

These constant false equivalencies kind of drive me nuts on this blog. Sure, both sides have good things and bad things that they offer up, people on both sides behave badly, and we need to call it out regardless of where it comes from, but let's actually draw equivalencies where they exist.