Comments on: On the Air: Is Health Care the New Abortion Debate? http://themoderatevoice.com/42907/on-the-air-is-health-care-the-new-abortion-debate/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Wed, 30 May 2012 20:57:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: husnain http://themoderatevoice.com/42907/on-the-air-is-health-care-the-new-abortion-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-204074 husnain Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:17:55 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42907#comment-204074 "They have great topics like this one on <a href="http://www.energytalkradio.com" rel="nofollow">www.energytalkradio.com</a> and donate 30% to charity! Check them out." “They have great topics like this one on http://www.energytalkradio.com and donate 30% to charity! Check them out.”

]]> By: roro80 http://themoderatevoice.com/42907/on-the-air-is-health-care-the-new-abortion-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-203807 roro80 Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:51:36 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42907#comment-203807 One of the similarities I see between the Health Care debate and the Abortion debate is the level of violent rhetoric we're seeing. Unfortunately, with the the constant stories about people bringing guns to the town halls, people hanging effigies of their congresspeople, people equating Obama with Hitler, clearly violent language by the right-wing pundits in connection with the debate, I feel every day more fearful that this will end up with some of the major players getting hurt or killed. So yes, there are certainly some similarities with the abortion debate. <br><br>"many more of us are wary because there is no "right" [sic] to abortion"<br><br>Whether we want to call it a right or not, the fact is that it is a safe, legal, often medically-necessary, generally very much wanted procedure that, in the context of a health care plan (whether insurance or whatever public system you want to name) is extremely cost-effective. After end-of-life costs, the costs associated with pregnancy and birth are the most expensive health care costs in this country. One of the similarities I see between the Health Care debate and the Abortion debate is the level of violent rhetoric we're seeing. Unfortunately, with the the constant stories about people bringing guns to the town halls, people hanging effigies of their congresspeople, people equating Obama with Hitler, clearly violent language by the right-wing pundits in connection with the debate, I feel every day more fearful that this will end up with some of the major players getting hurt or killed. So yes, there are certainly some similarities with the abortion debate.

“many more of us are wary because there is no “right” [sic] to abortion”

Whether we want to call it a right or not, the fact is that it is a safe, legal, often medically-necessary, generally very much wanted procedure that, in the context of a health care plan (whether insurance or whatever public system you want to name) is extremely cost-effective. After end-of-life costs, the costs associated with pregnancy and birth are the most expensive health care costs in this country.

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/42907/on-the-air-is-health-care-the-new-abortion-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-203732 DLS Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:58:52 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42907#comment-203732 The answer to your final question, Jazz, is "probably." It won't be as bad as the House Dems' bill that's being pushed so insanely (to the accompaniment the der Sturmer treatment of any and all opposition), but it will still have objectionable features, and will dissatisfy not only the few left-extremists who already fault the bill (because it's not Medicare for All and preserves some, _any_ role for private insurers), but the many who actually like and _want_ the House bill to pass (the lib Dems who threw a tantrum after Blue Dogs secured some concession to reality earlier, for example).<br><br>What that introduces is another fresh speculation -- what do the Dem and their activist crowd foresee after this effort ends, or after next year (probably the same time)? Do they really fear they will be so worse off at that time, no matter what, that they'll never be able to act as quickly and rashly as they're currently acting? (Does that imply they know how badly they're behaving and what poor goals they're seeking now?) The answer to your final question, Jazz, is “probably.” It won't be as bad as the House Dems' bill that's being pushed so insanely (to the accompaniment the der Sturmer treatment of any and all opposition), but it will still have objectionable features, and will dissatisfy not only the few left-extremists who already fault the bill (because it's not Medicare for All and preserves some, _any_ role for private insurers), but the many who actually like and _want_ the House bill to pass (the lib Dems who threw a tantrum after Blue Dogs secured some concession to reality earlier, for example).

What that introduces is another fresh speculation — what do the Dem and their activist crowd foresee after this effort ends, or after next year (probably the same time)? Do they really fear they will be so worse off at that time, no matter what, that they'll never be able to act as quickly and rashly as they're currently acting? (Does that imply they know how badly they're behaving and what poor goals they're seeking now?)

]]> By: Jazz http://themoderatevoice.com/42907/on-the-air-is-health-care-the-new-abortion-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-203647 Jazz Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:20:13 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42907#comment-203647 "<i>But are the Dems remembering lessons learned?</i>"<br><br>Thus far, my guess is no. But at the moment, my old fears about these proposals are being replaced by a new one, as we discussed on our radio show this morning. Support for any sort of really destructive public option seems to have eroded to the point of no recovery, but the administration feels like they have to PASS SOMETHING or face certain doom. So will we wind up getting a toothless piece of dreck that doesn't have the main elements the Democrats were pushing for, but still spends tons of money without addressing some of the areas where good, positive reform is possible? “But are the Dems remembering lessons learned?“

Thus far, my guess is no. But at the moment, my old fears about these proposals are being replaced by a new one, as we discussed on our radio show this morning. Support for any sort of really destructive public option seems to have eroded to the point of no recovery, but the administration feels like they have to PASS SOMETHING or face certain doom. So will we wind up getting a toothless piece of dreck that doesn't have the main elements the Democrats were pushing for, but still spends tons of money without addressing some of the areas where good, positive reform is possible?

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/42907/on-the-air-is-health-care-the-new-abortion-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-203538 DLS Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:58:57 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42907#comment-203538 Jazz,<br><br>"whether or not health care reform has become the new abortion question in this country"<br><br>the current health care debate, for health care overall, is not anything like the abortion debate, though there is similarity in that there is both (diminishing) support for it and (growing) opposition to it; coloring the debate isn't really abortion but the nature of the liberal Democrats (which includes Obama and his recent Ahab-like fighting for this as well as for the earlier bad environmentalist legislation) and how they have behaved since the start of this year. Material for the debate also includes the Clinton debacle in 1993-4. Note that now, in 2009, there's quite thorough admission or concession by the GOP that reform is necessary, which wasn't the case back in 1993-4. (But are the Dems remembering lessons learned?) Jazz,

“whether or not health care reform has become the new abortion question in this country”

the current health care debate, for health care overall, is not anything like the abortion debate, though there is similarity in that there is both (diminishing) support for it and (growing) opposition to it; coloring the debate isn't really abortion but the nature of the liberal Democrats (which includes Obama and his recent Ahab-like fighting for this as well as for the earlier bad environmentalist legislation) and how they have behaved since the start of this year. Material for the debate also includes the Clinton debacle in 1993-4. Note that now, in 2009, there's quite thorough admission or concession by the GOP that reform is necessary, which wasn't the case back in 1993-4. (But are the Dems remembering lessons learned?)

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/42907/on-the-air-is-health-care-the-new-abortion-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-203533 DLS Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:53:22 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42907#comment-203533 It's surfacing, as it inevitably must given that federal provision of health care is becoming extended to girls and women who might get pregnant. Aside from the objections many have to abortion, period, on moral grounds, many more of us are wary because there is no "right" [sic] to abortion (nor to health care) and inclusion of abortion is subject to critical review and limitations, obviously. (The real issue to come will be if the militant extreme left abortion-absolutists will start shrieking; they are repellent and will consequently add to the opposition of including abortions other than to save the life of the mother, or perhaps also in the case of rape or incest, etc.) It's surfacing, as it inevitably must given that federal provision of health care is becoming extended to girls and women who might get pregnant. Aside from the objections many have to abortion, period, on moral grounds, many more of us are wary because there is no “right” [sic] to abortion (nor to health care) and inclusion of abortion is subject to critical review and limitations, obviously. (The real issue to come will be if the militant extreme left abortion-absolutists will start shrieking; they are repellent and will consequently add to the opposition of including abortions other than to save the life of the mother, or perhaps also in the case of rape or incest, etc.)

]]> By: Silhouette http://themoderatevoice.com/42907/on-the-air-is-health-care-the-new-abortion-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-203512 Silhouette Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:18:03 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42907#comment-203512 "Is Health Care The New Abortion Debate?"<br><br>*****<br>If MedMob had their way, yes. But "no" if you don't post articles about it in modate sites. Crunch the numbers and get back to me if you understand..lol.. “Is Health Care The New Abortion Debate?”

*****
If MedMob had their way, yes. But “no” if you don't post articles about it in modate sites. Crunch the numbers and get back to me if you understand..lol..

]]> By: On the air: Is Health Care the New Abortion Debate? http://themoderatevoice.com/42907/on-the-air-is-health-care-the-new-abortion-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-203473 On the air: Is Health Care the New Abortion Debate? Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:43:08 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42907#comment-203473 [...] See the original post: On the air: Is Health Care the New Abortion Debate? [...] [...] See the original post: On the air: Is Health Care the New Abortion Debate? [...]

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