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	<title>Comments on: The Economist on America&#8217;s Harsh &amp; Indiscriminate Sex-Offender Laws</title>
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		<title>By: archangel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-204551</link>
		<dc:creator>archangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 07:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-204551</guid>
		<description>just came back from store and noticed the August Issue of the Economist has a cover story on exactly this topic. I think it says something to the effect of overfinding sex offenses. You  might want to look at it next time if you have further interest. I wasnt able to read the article, just glance, but it is several pages long.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;thanks&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;dr.e</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just came back from store and noticed the August Issue of the Economist has a cover story on exactly this topic. I think it says something to the effect of overfinding sex offenses. You  might want to look at it next time if you have further interest. I wasnt able to read the article, just glance, but it is several pages long.</p>
<p>thanks</p>
<p>dr.e</p>
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		<title>By: roro80</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203897</link>
		<dc:creator>roro80</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 04:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>jamesregal -- Absolutely!  Just chalk it up to another case of &quot;The Patriarchy Hurts Men Too&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jamesregal &#8212; Absolutely!  Just chalk it up to another case of &#8220;The Patriarchy Hurts Men Too&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: jamesregal</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203887</link>
		<dc:creator>jamesregal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203887</guid>
		<description>The real tragedy is that our country has a growing number of District Attorneys prosecuting cases with insane legal outcomes, especially in alleged consensual sex cases.  What is most disturbing as a parent and concerned citizen is that prosecutors are able mask gender and other unlawful biases under “broad prosecutorial discretion”, which shields these unlawful practices during judicial review and prevents public knowledge and/or scrutiny.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As a tragic result, there is now an alarming increase in the number of prosecutions across the U.S. where, but for their age, an otherwise innocent boy/teen/young man faces a life of ruin and potential life-time registration as a sex offender (Commonwealth vs Bernardo B.).  Then, adding insult to injury, there are no legal consequences for the girls and/or girl’s parents for their equally illegal acts and heinous character assassinating complaints, even when the allegations are proven false (Commonwealth vs. Jeffrey Witham and State of Tennessee vs. Corey Dehart).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;This reverse gender bias is neither new nor unknown to the highest courts in our country as many states have commissioned studies to recommend corrective action to this unlawful gender biased practice. Throughout these numerous reports the workings of bias are illustrated in statistical data, expert testimony, and first-hand accounts (Gender Bias Study of the Court System in Massachusetts, 1998).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Massachusetts report stated “Gender bias exists in many forms throughout the court system. Sexist language and behavior are still common, despite an increased understanding that these practices are wrong. Beyond these overt signs of bias, many practices and procedures exist that may not appear motivated by bias but nonetheless produce biased results.”&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;An article published in the May/June 2009 Boston Bar Journal included a lengthy discussion of two gender biased cases recently decided in the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court and the United States Supreme Court. The article states these decisions, “permit some assessment of the extent to which judicial decisions today reflect a conscious and sophisticated consideration of societal assumptions about gender on the application of the law.”&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;At least in Bernardo B. the SJC majority demonstrated some sense of reasonableness. However, the fact that juvenile boys are being charged in consensual sex cases and not the girls, is a clear gender based discrimination and a failure of the legal system to protect the boys’ constitutional rights and provide equal justice.&lt;br&gt;How many of our young boys and teens will we allow to be incarcerated, subjected to barbaric and abusive treatment (see Plethysmographs, Masturbatory Satiation, Arousal Reconditioning, Cognitive Restructuring of juveniles) and then forced to register as Sex Offenders for the rest of their lives before we bring an end to this insanity?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The current and potential legislation regarding this entire subject is seriously lacking any real protection of our children from violent predatory sex offenders. In fact more and more underage children are the ones who are being prosecuted and convicted at an alarming rate under the very laws enacted to &#039;protect them.&#039; &quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real tragedy is that our country has a growing number of District Attorneys prosecuting cases with insane legal outcomes, especially in alleged consensual sex cases.  What is most disturbing as a parent and concerned citizen is that prosecutors are able mask gender and other unlawful biases under “broad prosecutorial discretion”, which shields these unlawful practices during judicial review and prevents public knowledge and/or scrutiny.</p>
<p>As a tragic result, there is now an alarming increase in the number of prosecutions across the U.S. where, but for their age, an otherwise innocent boy/teen/young man faces a life of ruin and potential life-time registration as a sex offender (Commonwealth vs Bernardo B.).  Then, adding insult to injury, there are no legal consequences for the girls and/or girl’s parents for their equally illegal acts and heinous character assassinating complaints, even when the allegations are proven false (Commonwealth vs. Jeffrey Witham and State of Tennessee vs. Corey Dehart).</p>
<p>This reverse gender bias is neither new nor unknown to the highest courts in our country as many states have commissioned studies to recommend corrective action to this unlawful gender biased practice. Throughout these numerous reports the workings of bias are illustrated in statistical data, expert testimony, and first-hand accounts (Gender Bias Study of the Court System in Massachusetts, 1998).</p>
<p>The Massachusetts report stated “Gender bias exists in many forms throughout the court system. Sexist language and behavior are still common, despite an increased understanding that these practices are wrong. Beyond these overt signs of bias, many practices and procedures exist that may not appear motivated by bias but nonetheless produce biased results.”</p>
<p>An article published in the May/June 2009 Boston Bar Journal included a lengthy discussion of two gender biased cases recently decided in the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court and the United States Supreme Court. The article states these decisions, “permit some assessment of the extent to which judicial decisions today reflect a conscious and sophisticated consideration of societal assumptions about gender on the application of the law.”</p>
<p>At least in Bernardo B. the SJC majority demonstrated some sense of reasonableness. However, the fact that juvenile boys are being charged in consensual sex cases and not the girls, is a clear gender based discrimination and a failure of the legal system to protect the boys’ constitutional rights and provide equal justice.<br />How many of our young boys and teens will we allow to be incarcerated, subjected to barbaric and abusive treatment (see Plethysmographs, Masturbatory Satiation, Arousal Reconditioning, Cognitive Restructuring of juveniles) and then forced to register as Sex Offenders for the rest of their lives before we bring an end to this insanity?</p>
<p>The current and potential legislation regarding this entire subject is seriously lacking any real protection of our children from violent predatory sex offenders. In fact more and more underage children are the ones who are being prosecuted and convicted at an alarming rate under the very laws enacted to &#39;protect them.&#39; &#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: archangel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203879</link>
		<dc:creator>archangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203879</guid>
		<description>Dear fima, re your link shortly above this comment, usually Joe Windish would have been commenting on this, but I think he is away for a bit. I would just point out for our readers that your link is to Newsvine which is a &#039;citizen blog&#039; where anyone can post news they&#039;ve heard of or seen. This particular link points to a state legislator wanting green license plates for sex offenders. Which begs sanity, I would think. But, community standards may be at work, which are way different, way way... than state or fed standards.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thanks fima.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;dr.e&lt;br&gt;Assistant Editor, The Moderate Voice</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear fima, re your link shortly above this comment, usually Joe Windish would have been commenting on this, but I think he is away for a bit. I would just point out for our readers that your link is to Newsvine which is a &#39;citizen blog&#39; where anyone can post news they&#39;ve heard of or seen. This particular link points to a state legislator wanting green license plates for sex offenders. Which begs sanity, I would think. But, community standards may be at work, which are way different, way way&#8230; than state or fed standards.</p>
<p>Thanks fima.</p>
<p>dr.e<br />Assistant Editor, The Moderate Voice</p>
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		<title>By: archangel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203876</link>
		<dc:creator>archangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 03:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203876</guid>
		<description>Tidbits, send me a link privately and I&#039;ll look at it. Im interested too if you come across them, any final decisions by the courts on agism. That&#039;s one that seems an entirely innocent &#039;crime&#039; many seem to be fired or dismissed from work over. Very difficult to prove, but imagine we&#039;ll see more cases as such that may be defining for the first time over past precedents.&lt;br&gt;dr.e</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tidbits, send me a link privately and I&#39;ll look at it. Im interested too if you come across them, any final decisions by the courts on agism. That&#39;s one that seems an entirely innocent &#39;crime&#39; many seem to be fired or dismissed from work over. Very difficult to prove, but imagine we&#39;ll see more cases as such that may be defining for the first time over past precedents.<br />dr.e</p>
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		<title>By: fima</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203801</link>
		<dc:creator>fima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:29:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203801</guid>
		<description>Could you read this site&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://estrinyefim.newsvine.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://estrinyefim.newsvine.com&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you read this site</p>
<p><a href="http://estrinyefim.newsvine.com" rel="nofollow">http://estrinyefim.newsvine.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: tidbits</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203795</link>
		<dc:creator>tidbits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203795</guid>
		<description>Archangel - OK, between conference calls and meetings, I found something related, though not entirely on point.  It is a disciplinary proceeding, about whether a lawyer should be disbarred for a conviction involving registered sex offender status.  2008-NY-1231.159, In the Matter of Lever, 2008 NY Slip Op 10230, decided December 30, 2008.  In this case, attorney ended up being suspended three years, or potentially longer, with the dissent arguing for disbarment.  The underlying offense involved an internet chat room with a police officer posing as an underage girl with an attempt to meet, but no actual sexual contact.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Researching Fed &amp; most major states&#039; case law, there is nothing I found quickly that was directly on point...contesting termination of employment based on sex offender status, but the above case does impact employment or employability...admittedly within a unique context.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Archangel &#8211; OK, between conference calls and meetings, I found something related, though not entirely on point.  It is a disciplinary proceeding, about whether a lawyer should be disbarred for a conviction involving registered sex offender status.  2008-NY-1231.159, In the Matter of Lever, 2008 NY Slip Op 10230, decided December 30, 2008.  In this case, attorney ended up being suspended three years, or potentially longer, with the dissent arguing for disbarment.  The underlying offense involved an internet chat room with a police officer posing as an underage girl with an attempt to meet, but no actual sexual contact.</p>
<p>Researching Fed &#038; most major states&#39; case law, there is nothing I found quickly that was directly on point&#8230;contesting termination of employment based on sex offender status, but the above case does impact employment or employability&#8230;admittedly within a unique context.</p>
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		<title>By: archangel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203753</link>
		<dc:creator>archangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203753</guid>
		<description>tidbits, I&#039;m at work days, but if you want to find a case, suggest ACLU. Seems a case about wrongful employer action would be in keeping with their mission. I just read decision the other day of a person who was fired for wearing insignia and proselytizing neo-Nazi ideas at work. Court found for plaintiff. It was an ACLU case.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;dr.e</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tidbits, I&#39;m at work days, but if you want to find a case, suggest ACLU. Seems a case about wrongful employer action would be in keeping with their mission. I just read decision the other day of a person who was fired for wearing insignia and proselytizing neo-Nazi ideas at work. Court found for plaintiff. It was an ACLU case.</p>
<p>dr.e</p>
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		<title>By: cannonc</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203750</link>
		<dc:creator>cannonc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203750</guid>
		<description>According to Allyson Taylor, executive director of the TX licensed sex offender treatment providers only about 5000 of the 56000 registered sex offenders in TX are truly dangerous.  How does anyone know the difference and why are my tax dollars going to pay to prison, monitor and keep up with people that are not dangerous and ones that are  only prosecuted due to age of consent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to Allyson Taylor, executive director of the TX licensed sex offender treatment providers only about 5000 of the 56000 registered sex offenders in TX are truly dangerous.  How does anyone know the difference and why are my tax dollars going to pay to prison, monitor and keep up with people that are not dangerous and ones that are  only prosecuted due to age of consent.</p>
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		<title>By: tidbits</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203716</link>
		<dc:creator>tidbits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203716</guid>
		<description>Geez, dr. e.  Now you want me to do heavy duty research to find an employment case based on being fired for being a registered sex offender?  I don&#039;t work that hard in my day job.  :-)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To your point though: 1) most sex offenders would not sue over a firing because of the embarassment and jury bias they would face,  2) there is a substantial difference between union jobs, government jobs, jobs for large corporations, and the kind of jobs many registered sex offenders would seek like the local gas station, car wash, sales position or the like, and 3) in &quot;at will&quot; employment, the employer need not give the reason for the firing.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Now, on to the slavish assignment of trying to find a published case on the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geez, dr. e.  Now you want me to do heavy duty research to find an employment case based on being fired for being a registered sex offender?  I don&#39;t work that hard in my day job.  <img src='http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>To your point though: 1) most sex offenders would not sue over a firing because of the embarassment and jury bias they would face,  2) there is a substantial difference between union jobs, government jobs, jobs for large corporations, and the kind of jobs many registered sex offenders would seek like the local gas station, car wash, sales position or the like, and 3) in &#8220;at will&#8221; employment, the employer need not give the reason for the firing.</p>
<p>Now, on to the slavish assignment of trying to find a published case on the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: tidbits</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203710</link>
		<dc:creator>tidbits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203710</guid>
		<description>dr. e. -  You touch on a very important point, and there are additional variants.  Most of these laws are state by state.  There is no uniform national criteria by which sex offender is defined or registry required.  Because of this there is considerable difference in registry requirements among the 50 states.  Without going state by state to the various legislatures, only the US Supreme Court could clarify or limit these laws.  As Shannonlee pointed out above, politicians are loathe to touch this issue.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The sub-point to your observation is that state laws are locally enforced.  That includes local police and local prosecutors.  There is considerable discretion at that level.  The local officer, in a minor case, has the discretion to arrest or cite for, say, disorderly conduct, not carrying sex offender status, or for an offense that carries sex offender status.  Similarly the local prosecutor can indict or charge in many different ways, and, surprisingly, in some jurisdictions prosecutors can cut pleas where a person pleads to a sexually related offense pursuant to an agreement that he/she will not be required to register as a sex offender.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It is a sad comment, but the truth is that it is often the poor, the culturally oppressed and the poorly represented (or unrepresented) who are most likely to be hit the hardest on this score in the legal system.  As an example, what is the likely difference between the reaction to, and treatment of, an affluent Anglo urinating on a public golf course and a Latino laborer urinating in a park?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I entirely agree with your comments on parental responsibility laws and variances in community standards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dr. e. &#8211;  You touch on a very important point, and there are additional variants.  Most of these laws are state by state.  There is no uniform national criteria by which sex offender is defined or registry required.  Because of this there is considerable difference in registry requirements among the 50 states.  Without going state by state to the various legislatures, only the US Supreme Court could clarify or limit these laws.  As Shannonlee pointed out above, politicians are loathe to touch this issue.</p>
<p>The sub-point to your observation is that state laws are locally enforced.  That includes local police and local prosecutors.  There is considerable discretion at that level.  The local officer, in a minor case, has the discretion to arrest or cite for, say, disorderly conduct, not carrying sex offender status, or for an offense that carries sex offender status.  Similarly the local prosecutor can indict or charge in many different ways, and, surprisingly, in some jurisdictions prosecutors can cut pleas where a person pleads to a sexually related offense pursuant to an agreement that he/she will not be required to register as a sex offender.</p>
<p>It is a sad comment, but the truth is that it is often the poor, the culturally oppressed and the poorly represented (or unrepresented) who are most likely to be hit the hardest on this score in the legal system.  As an example, what is the likely difference between the reaction to, and treatment of, an affluent Anglo urinating on a public golf course and a Latino laborer urinating in a park?</p>
<p>I entirely agree with your comments on parental responsibility laws and variances in community standards.</p>
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		<title>By: archangel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203700</link>
		<dc:creator>archangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203700</guid>
		<description>tidbits, also the issue you bring up about &#039;at will&#039; employment is interesting. It would be interesting to look at a legal brief on such a case of being fired for having been convicted. In the state I live in, state D.O.R.A for licensure, state hires, and employers hiring not sub rosa have forms that ask if an applicant has a misdemeanor or felony conviction, and for what, and asks a set-aside for an explanation of how it all worked out. It would be useful to look at a case of disclosure/non-disclosure, and to see if that, in some jurisdictions is adequate or not adequate bar to let a person go from work. Do you know of such a court case off the top of your head?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;dr.e</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tidbits, also the issue you bring up about &#39;at will&#39; employment is interesting. It would be interesting to look at a legal brief on such a case of being fired for having been convicted. In the state I live in, state D.O.R.A for licensure, state hires, and employers hiring not sub rosa have forms that ask if an applicant has a misdemeanor or felony conviction, and for what, and asks a set-aside for an explanation of how it all worked out. It would be useful to look at a case of disclosure/non-disclosure, and to see if that, in some jurisdictions is adequate or not adequate bar to let a person go from work. Do you know of such a court case off the top of your head?</p>
<p>dr.e</p>
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		<title>By: archangel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203698</link>
		<dc:creator>archangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203698</guid>
		<description>I think Tidbits, we&#039;d have to review the state law and city ordinances and know the facts of the case more than merely on the face of it, before anyone could determine the gravity of the situation. As in the example that Joe W gave above, the story has far far more story to it; pages more. That case, as presented, cannot be discussed with any depth as merely a girl had sex, got pregnant, married the father of the child. Too many of the actual facts are missing.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I agree with you that petty matters among teens ought not be given colossal consequences. And, in discussion, I think, legally one also has to add in, accdg to each state/ jurisdiction, what parental rights exist for the underage, and what parental duty to protect laws are written. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It seems that moderating such laws (which would likely have to change parental repsonsibilities re colluding with underage anything currently outside the law...  could not easily occur w states&#039; rights intact, and &#039;community&#039; input varying so very much in this world... &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Seems it would have to be a state by state, even city by city issue.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;dr.e</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Tidbits, we&#39;d have to review the state law and city ordinances and know the facts of the case more than merely on the face of it, before anyone could determine the gravity of the situation. As in the example that Joe W gave above, the story has far far more story to it; pages more. That case, as presented, cannot be discussed with any depth as merely a girl had sex, got pregnant, married the father of the child. Too many of the actual facts are missing.</p>
<p>I agree with you that petty matters among teens ought not be given colossal consequences. And, in discussion, I think, legally one also has to add in, accdg to each state/ jurisdiction, what parental rights exist for the underage, and what parental duty to protect laws are written. </p>
<p>It seems that moderating such laws (which would likely have to change parental repsonsibilities re colluding with underage anything currently outside the law&#8230;  could not easily occur w states&#39; rights intact, and &#39;community&#39; input varying so very much in this world&#8230; </p>
<p>Seems it would have to be a state by state, even city by city issue.</p>
<p>dr.e</p>
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		<title>By: LionAslan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203691</link>
		<dc:creator>LionAslan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203691</guid>
		<description>You&#039;d have to state the law in each state.They are all different. Also interesting to see if case of person forced to put a sign in his yard, actually stood up on appeal. I&#039;d say it didnt. But, the state law will dictate. Frustrating to discuss this, for no one links to actual cases that can be read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#39;d have to state the law in each state.They are all different. Also interesting to see if case of person forced to put a sign in his yard, actually stood up on appeal. I&#39;d say it didnt. But, the state law will dictate. Frustrating to discuss this, for no one links to actual cases that can be read.</p>
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		<title>By: shannonlee</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203585</link>
		<dc:creator>shannonlee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203585</guid>
		<description>Can anyone name a politician that would take the risk of &quot;correcting&quot; the way we register sex offenders?  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It is political suicide.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;When I was a teenager, a kid down the street was convicted of rape because he had sex with his girlfriend...it was the situation that tidbits mentioned.  He had to put a sign in his front yard, actually his parents, stating that a sex offender lived in the home.  The guy was only a senior in highschool.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Terrible situation.....that will happen again....and no one will change the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can anyone name a politician that would take the risk of &#8220;correcting&#8221; the way we register sex offenders?  </p>
<p>It is political suicide.</p>
<p>When I was a teenager, a kid down the street was convicted of rape because he had sex with his girlfriend&#8230;it was the situation that tidbits mentioned.  He had to put a sign in his front yard, actually his parents, stating that a sex offender lived in the home.  The guy was only a senior in highschool.</p>
<p>Terrible situation&#8230;..that will happen again&#8230;.and no one will change the law.</p>
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		<title>By: roro80</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203577</link>
		<dc:creator>roro80</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203577</guid>
		<description>The real irony here is that while we&#039;re putting sex offender status on teenagers sending naughty pictures to each other, rape is one of the most underprosecuted, underconvicted, and undersentenced crimes out there.  How many times have we (collectively) scolded a teenager or young woman for &quot;getting herself raped&quot; by wearing a low cut top or having a drink at a party? We live in a culture that believes the rapists over the victims -- almost pathalogically, blames the victims for living their lives in such a way that they might &quot;get raped&quot;, and often refers to what can only be called rape as &quot;sex&quot;, yet we&#039;re so afraid of consensual sexual activity among young people that we want to criminalize it?  Such a backward set of priorities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real irony here is that while we&#39;re putting sex offender status on teenagers sending naughty pictures to each other, rape is one of the most underprosecuted, underconvicted, and undersentenced crimes out there.  How many times have we (collectively) scolded a teenager or young woman for &#8220;getting herself raped&#8221; by wearing a low cut top or having a drink at a party? We live in a culture that believes the rapists over the victims &#8212; almost pathalogically, blames the victims for living their lives in such a way that they might &#8220;get raped&#8221;, and often refers to what can only be called rape as &#8220;sex&#8221;, yet we&#39;re so afraid of consensual sexual activity among young people that we want to criminalize it?  Such a backward set of priorities.</p>
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		<title>By: AustinRoth</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203576</link>
		<dc:creator>AustinRoth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203576</guid>
		<description>tidbits -&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I am at a loss for words. A fair, reasonable reply that states your position, acknowledges our differences, and does not denigrate mine.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thank you.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;btw - the argument you put forth, IMO, supports calling sexting unwise, and that indeed it is, as is any method of distributing nude photos to a wider audience than the individuals.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But sexting itself cannot be self-debasing, unless you are of the opinion that any nude photography is self-debasing, and is done only by those who are not really comfortable with it. After all, the term goes to the state of mind of the individual. Perhaps simply debasing describes your opinion, as that references your state of mind about that action, not the participant.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Food for thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tidbits -</p>
<p>I am at a loss for words. A fair, reasonable reply that states your position, acknowledges our differences, and does not denigrate mine.</p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>btw &#8211; the argument you put forth, IMO, supports calling sexting unwise, and that indeed it is, as is any method of distributing nude photos to a wider audience than the individuals.</p>
<p>But sexting itself cannot be self-debasing, unless you are of the opinion that any nude photography is self-debasing, and is done only by those who are not really comfortable with it. After all, the term goes to the state of mind of the individual. Perhaps simply debasing describes your opinion, as that references your state of mind about that action, not the participant.</p>
<p>Food for thought.</p>
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		<title>By: tidbits</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203555</link>
		<dc:creator>tidbits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203555</guid>
		<description>AR -  That you see sexting as &quot;healthy&quot;, not an uncommon view though one with which I disagree, is all the more reason it should not lead to permanent sex offender status.  This issue was taken up recently by the legislature in, I believe, Vermont.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We do have many different views of sexual morality in our society.  You and I represent two.  One of the problems, which you help identify, is that sex offender status and registration often work to impose a particular (I call it puritanical) moral imperative on those who may, like you, have a dfferent view of what is immoral as opposed to healthy.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;BTW, my view of sexting has much to do with potential repercussions...photos being shared with unintended audiences or photos coming back to embarass someone later in life.  For that reason alone I would regard it as unwise.  I concede that &quot;deplorable&quot; may have been too strong a descriptor at least for those are legally adults, though I stand by &quot;self debasing&quot; knowing full well that you disagree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AR &#8211;  That you see sexting as &#8220;healthy&#8221;, not an uncommon view though one with which I disagree, is all the more reason it should not lead to permanent sex offender status.  This issue was taken up recently by the legislature in, I believe, Vermont.</p>
<p>We do have many different views of sexual morality in our society.  You and I represent two.  One of the problems, which you help identify, is that sex offender status and registration often work to impose a particular (I call it puritanical) moral imperative on those who may, like you, have a dfferent view of what is immoral as opposed to healthy.</p>
<p>BTW, my view of sexting has much to do with potential repercussions&#8230;photos being shared with unintended audiences or photos coming back to embarass someone later in life.  For that reason alone I would regard it as unwise.  I concede that &#8220;deplorable&#8221; may have been too strong a descriptor at least for those are legally adults, though I stand by &#8220;self debasing&#8221; knowing full well that you disagree.</p>
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		<title>By: AustinRoth</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203534</link>
		<dc:creator>AustinRoth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203534</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The final example I will cite here is high school and college students &quot;sexting&quot; each other. While deplorable and self debasing...&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Really?? Deplorable?? Self-debaing?? I see it as neither. I see it as healthy. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Why are we so ashamed of images, pictures and actual nudity? Why do we pretend 16 - 18 year olds (and you added college students!) are not fully funtioning sexual adults, at least the vast majority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The final example I will cite here is high school and college students &#8220;sexting&#8221; each other. While deplorable and self debasing&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Really?? Deplorable?? Self-debaing?? I see it as neither. I see it as healthy. </p>
<p>Why are we so ashamed of images, pictures and actual nudity? Why do we pretend 16 &#8211; 18 year olds (and you added college students!) are not fully funtioning sexual adults, at least the vast majority.</p>
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		<title>By: tidbits</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42864/the-economist-on-americas-harsh-indiscriminate-sex-offender-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-203513</link>
		<dc:creator>tidbits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42864#comment-203513</guid>
		<description>dr. e. - I must respectfully disagree on this one.  While Joe may have used an inapt example, there are many situations where sex offender status is inappropriately apllied, branding people for life.  And, yes people do get fired when exposed (not for lying...the question is often not on an employment application, and most non-union employees are employed &quot;at will&quot; meaning they can be fired at any time for no reason whatsoever), are denied credit, are restricted in their ability to conduct business and denied access to housing, often for very minor indiscetions.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To understand the problem with sex offender status and registries, we must first accept that a significant percentage of registered sex offenders are not child molesters or rapists.  A few examples might help.  Two consenting adults have sex outdoors, say in the woods, or in a car.  Public Indecency...lifelong sex offender status.  Another example (an actual situation): an underage girl (16) has dated a boy for over a year.  He  turns 18, and they continue to have sex.  Statutory rape...lifelong sex offender status.   The final example I will cite here is high school and college students &quot;sexting&quot; each other.  While deplorable and self debasing, it should not be the stuff of which permanent sex offender status is made...but it is.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Nothing here is meant to condone underage pregnancy, child molestation or sexual assault.  Just the opposite.  I believe we need to make clear distinctons between serious problems and less serious mistakes in judgment so that we can better address the serious problems while having the grace forgive momentary lapses in judgment or youthful overexuberance.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The rush to declare anyone who engages in some momentary libertine indiscretion a &quot;sex offender&quot; and subject him/her to lifelong discrimination presents too puritanical a face, and makes it more difficult to sift out serious offenders (who should be registered) from minor pecadillos.  In our zeal to punish and expose the truly dangerous we have cast the net so wide that we ensnare many who present no danger.  We should have the discretion to separate the two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dr. e. &#8211; I must respectfully disagree on this one.  While Joe may have used an inapt example, there are many situations where sex offender status is inappropriately apllied, branding people for life.  And, yes people do get fired when exposed (not for lying&#8230;the question is often not on an employment application, and most non-union employees are employed &#8220;at will&#8221; meaning they can be fired at any time for no reason whatsoever), are denied credit, are restricted in their ability to conduct business and denied access to housing, often for very minor indiscetions.</p>
<p>To understand the problem with sex offender status and registries, we must first accept that a significant percentage of registered sex offenders are not child molesters or rapists.  A few examples might help.  Two consenting adults have sex outdoors, say in the woods, or in a car.  Public Indecency&#8230;lifelong sex offender status.  Another example (an actual situation): an underage girl (16) has dated a boy for over a year.  He  turns 18, and they continue to have sex.  Statutory rape&#8230;lifelong sex offender status.   The final example I will cite here is high school and college students &#8220;sexting&#8221; each other.  While deplorable and self debasing, it should not be the stuff of which permanent sex offender status is made&#8230;but it is.</p>
<p>Nothing here is meant to condone underage pregnancy, child molestation or sexual assault.  Just the opposite.  I believe we need to make clear distinctons between serious problems and less serious mistakes in judgment so that we can better address the serious problems while having the grace forgive momentary lapses in judgment or youthful overexuberance.</p>
<p>The rush to declare anyone who engages in some momentary libertine indiscretion a &#8220;sex offender&#8221; and subject him/her to lifelong discrimination presents too puritanical a face, and makes it more difficult to sift out serious offenders (who should be registered) from minor pecadillos.  In our zeal to punish and expose the truly dangerous we have cast the net so wide that we ensnare many who present no danger.  We should have the discretion to separate the two.</p>
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