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	<title>Comments on: And The Demonization On Health Care Gets Nuttier And Nuttier</title>
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		<title>By: Rudi</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42525/and-the-demonization-on-health-care-gets-nuttier-and-nuttier/comment-page-1/#comment-202143</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 04:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42525#comment-202143</guid>
		<description>How is DoNotResuscitate or an OK for hospice a forced suicide ordered by those ghoulish Demonocrats? Pat is just blowing smoke to push his exposure as a paleocon. His writings over at AmericanConservative aren&#039;t as looney as his posturing on TV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How is DoNotResuscitate or an OK for hospice a forced suicide ordered by those ghoulish Demonocrats? Pat is just blowing smoke to push his exposure as a paleocon. His writings over at AmericanConservative aren&#39;t as looney as his posturing on TV.</p>
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		<title>By: Father_Time</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42525/and-the-demonization-on-health-care-gets-nuttier-and-nuttier/comment-page-1/#comment-202084</link>
		<dc:creator>Father_Time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42525#comment-202084</guid>
		<description>Republicans are the only ones worried about tax money. They are the ones that will eventually kill people over it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Republicans are the only ones worried about tax money. They are the ones that will eventually kill people over it.</p>
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		<title>By: Silhouette</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42525/and-the-demonization-on-health-care-gets-nuttier-and-nuttier/comment-page-1/#comment-202076</link>
		<dc:creator>Silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 23:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42525#comment-202076</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m trying to imagine a scenario where a team of sharp lawyers couldn&#039;t be the checks and balances for this worst-case fear scenario?  Imagine Grandma Stickle having been coerced to die when she was only in for bunion surgery, or some other procedure that she might have survived.  They&#039;ll put monetary values on each day Granny Stickle might have been projected to live.  There will be a settlement and a precident set.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The usual American way.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You can see the TV commercials now: &quot;Have you or a loved one lost a family member to undue government-health coercion?  You may be entitled to a settlement...&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I don&#039;t usually say this but lawyers may save the day..lol..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m trying to imagine a scenario where a team of sharp lawyers couldn&#39;t be the checks and balances for this worst-case fear scenario?  Imagine Grandma Stickle having been coerced to die when she was only in for bunion surgery, or some other procedure that she might have survived.  They&#39;ll put monetary values on each day Granny Stickle might have been projected to live.  There will be a settlement and a precident set.  </p>
<p>The usual American way.</p>
<p>You can see the TV commercials now: &#8220;Have you or a loved one lost a family member to undue government-health coercion?  You may be entitled to a settlement&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#39;t usually say this but lawyers may save the day..lol..</p>
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		<title>By: casualobserver</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42525/and-the-demonization-on-health-care-gets-nuttier-and-nuttier/comment-page-1/#comment-202042</link>
		<dc:creator>casualobserver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42525#comment-202042</guid>
		<description>From WaPo........&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Though not mandatory, as some on the right have claimed, the consultations envisioned in Section 1233 aren&#039;t quite &quot;purely voluntary,&quot; as Rep. Sander M. Levin (D-Mich.) asserts. To me, &quot;purely voluntary&quot; means &quot;not unless the patient requests one.&quot; Section 1233, however, lets doctors initiate the chat and gives them an incentive -- money -- to do so. Indeed, that&#039;s an incentive to insist. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Patients may refuse without penalty, but many will bow to white-coated authority. Once they&#039;re in the meeting, the bill does permit &quot;formulation&quot; of a plug-pulling order right then and there. So when Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) denies that Section 1233 would &quot;place senior citizens in situations where they feel pressured to sign end-of-life directives that they would not otherwise sign,&quot; I don&#039;t think he&#039;s being realistic. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What&#039;s more, Section 1233 dictates, at some length, the content of the consultation. The doctor &quot;shall&quot; discuss &quot;advanced care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to&quot;; &quot;an explanation of . . . living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses&quot; (even though these are legal, not medical, instruments); and &quot;a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families.&quot; The doctor &quot;shall&quot; explain that Medicare pays for hospice care (hint, hint). &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Admittedly, this script is vague and possibly unenforceable. What are &quot;key questions&quot;? Who belongs on &quot;a list&quot; of helpful &quot;resources&quot;? The Roman Catholic Church? Jack Kevorkian? &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Ideally, the delicate decisions about how to manage life&#039;s end would be made in a setting that is neutral in both appearance and fact. Yes, it&#039;s good to have a doctor&#039;s perspective. But Section 1233 goes beyond facilitating doctor input to preferring it. Indeed, the measure would have an interested party -- the government -- recruit doctors to sell the elderly on living wills, hospice care and their associated providers, professions and organizations. You don&#039;t have to be a right-wing wacko to question that approach. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As it happens, I have a living will and a durable power of attorney for health care. I&#039;m glad I do. I drew them up based on publicly available medical information, in consultation with my family and a lawyer. No authority figure got paid by federal bean-counters to influence me. I have a hunch I&#039;m not the only one who would rather do it that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From WaPo&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>Though not mandatory, as some on the right have claimed, the consultations envisioned in Section 1233 aren&#39;t quite &#8220;purely voluntary,&#8221; as Rep. Sander M. Levin (D-Mich.) asserts. To me, &#8220;purely voluntary&#8221; means &#8220;not unless the patient requests one.&#8221; Section 1233, however, lets doctors initiate the chat and gives them an incentive &#8212; money &#8212; to do so. Indeed, that&#39;s an incentive to insist. </p>
<p>Patients may refuse without penalty, but many will bow to white-coated authority. Once they&#39;re in the meeting, the bill does permit &#8220;formulation&#8221; of a plug-pulling order right then and there. So when Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-Ore.) denies that Section 1233 would &#8220;place senior citizens in situations where they feel pressured to sign end-of-life directives that they would not otherwise sign,&#8221; I don&#39;t think he&#39;s being realistic. </p>
<p>What&#39;s more, Section 1233 dictates, at some length, the content of the consultation. The doctor &#8220;shall&#8221; discuss &#8220;advanced care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to&#8221;; &#8220;an explanation of . . . living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses&#8221; (even though these are legal, not medical, instruments); and &#8220;a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families.&#8221; The doctor &#8220;shall&#8221; explain that Medicare pays for hospice care (hint, hint). </p>
<p>Admittedly, this script is vague and possibly unenforceable. What are &#8220;key questions&#8221;? Who belongs on &#8220;a list&#8221; of helpful &#8220;resources&#8221;? The Roman Catholic Church? Jack Kevorkian? </p>
<p>Ideally, the delicate decisions about how to manage life&#39;s end would be made in a setting that is neutral in both appearance and fact. Yes, it&#39;s good to have a doctor&#39;s perspective. But Section 1233 goes beyond facilitating doctor input to preferring it. Indeed, the measure would have an interested party &#8212; the government &#8212; recruit doctors to sell the elderly on living wills, hospice care and their associated providers, professions and organizations. You don&#39;t have to be a right-wing wacko to question that approach. </p>
<p>As it happens, I have a living will and a durable power of attorney for health care. I&#39;m glad I do. I drew them up based on publicly available medical information, in consultation with my family and a lawyer. No authority figure got paid by federal bean-counters to influence me. I have a hunch I&#39;m not the only one who would rather do it that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Beasley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42525/and-the-demonization-on-health-care-gets-nuttier-and-nuttier/comment-page-1/#comment-202030</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Beasley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42525#comment-202030</guid>
		<description>Pat Buchanan is an old bigot and the election of a black president has sent him over the edge just like the rest of the birthers and deathers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat Buchanan is an old bigot and the election of a black president has sent him over the edge just like the rest of the birthers and deathers.</p>
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		<title>By: Silhouette</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42525/and-the-demonization-on-health-care-gets-nuttier-and-nuttier/comment-page-1/#comment-202026</link>
		<dc:creator>Silhouette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 22:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42525#comment-202026</guid>
		<description>The best McLaughlin group I ever saw was Saturday Night Live&#039;s rendition with Dana Carvey, John Goodman and Jan Hooks et al...  Sidesplittingly funny..lol..&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Maybe next he&#039;ll be saying they&#039;re going to force us to make Soylent Green out of our elderly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best McLaughlin group I ever saw was Saturday Night Live&#39;s rendition with Dana Carvey, John Goodman and Jan Hooks et al&#8230;  Sidesplittingly funny..lol..</p>
<p>Maybe next he&#39;ll be saying they&#39;re going to force us to make Soylent Green out of our elderly?</p>
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		<title>By: RememebrNovember</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42525/and-the-demonization-on-health-care-gets-nuttier-and-nuttier/comment-page-1/#comment-202019</link>
		<dc:creator>RememebrNovember</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:51:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42525#comment-202019</guid>
		<description>Why is Pat Buchanan still talking?  Why are networks inviting that beady eyed racist on the airwaves?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is Pat Buchanan still talking?  Why are networks inviting that beady eyed racist on the airwaves?</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Capp</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/42525/and-the-demonization-on-health-care-gets-nuttier-and-nuttier/comment-page-1/#comment-202005</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Capp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=42525#comment-202005</guid>
		<description>I missed, as usual, the McLaughlin group yesterday, now I&#039;m glad I did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I missed, as usual, the McLaughlin group yesterday, now I&#39;m glad I did.</p>
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