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	<title>Comments on: Forget Bipartisanship. Democrats Need To Do What is Right on Health-Care Reform.</title>
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		<title>By: TheLogistician</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-195326</link>
		<dc:creator>TheLogistician</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 05:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-195326</guid>
		<description>I can’t imagine anything more important, to any entity’s efforts to solve its problems and improve itself, than having respect for the conflicting views of its constituent members, and being able to incorporate those varying views into an optimal solution or approach.  Unfortunately, at least in the current political environment, &lt;a href=&quot;http://tinyurl.com/dzjynd&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I am concerned that this principle may not be in operation&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can’t imagine anything more important, to any entity’s efforts to solve its problems and improve itself, than having respect for the conflicting views of its constituent members, and being able to incorporate those varying views into an optimal solution or approach.  Unfortunately, at least in the current political environment, <a href="http://tinyurl.com/dzjynd" rel="nofollow">I am concerned that this principle may not be in operation</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr_J</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193716</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr_J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:01:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193716</guid>
		<description>GD, I read your link.  The tone was my first clue it might not be an even-handed analysis, and I didn&#039;t find it to support your broad assertion that companies are not held accountable.  Specifically:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;1. The whole thing is about a weird corner of the economy.  Goldman Sachs is a speculator, and their customers are speculators.  I&#039;m certainly against fraud and market manipulation, but the people who lost money fair and square speculating on dot-com IPOs aren&#039;t going to keep me up at night.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;2. Even as slanted as the article is, one theme keeps emerging from it: government failure.  It loosened commodities regulations, it failed to impose meaningful fines on corporate abuses, it implemented policies to encourage wider homeownership that helped fuel the housing bubble.  Absurdly, the author tries to blame Goldman for lobbying for these changes, as if maintaining a balanced regulatory structure were Goldman&#039;s job rather than the government&#039;s.  Congress acted to loosen rules on default swaps trades, but Congress shouldn&#039;t be held responsible because the Treasury department lobbied them.  But Treasury shouldn&#039;t be held responsible because it was run by Robert Rubin, who had come from Goldman Sachs.  It&#039;s Goldman&#039;s fault, you see?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;3. In all these examples, within just a few years inflated asset values are corrected, fraud punished and stopped.  In the grand scheme of things that&#039;s pretty darn quick.  How long has the drug war been with us?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;4. The millions pocketed by executives of insolvent financial firms makes my blood boil too, and I&#039;d like to see more downward pressure on those bonuses.  But I&#039;d rather we optimize the system toward helping the many forward rather than holding the few back, so the few thousand people getting more than they deserve are a distraction from the real question: what best serves the many?  A government-heavy system that betrays the interests of the many whenever the few come a-lobbying is the wrong answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GD, I read your link.  The tone was my first clue it might not be an even-handed analysis, and I didn&#39;t find it to support your broad assertion that companies are not held accountable.  Specifically:</p>
<p>1. The whole thing is about a weird corner of the economy.  Goldman Sachs is a speculator, and their customers are speculators.  I&#39;m certainly against fraud and market manipulation, but the people who lost money fair and square speculating on dot-com IPOs aren&#39;t going to keep me up at night.</p>
<p>2. Even as slanted as the article is, one theme keeps emerging from it: government failure.  It loosened commodities regulations, it failed to impose meaningful fines on corporate abuses, it implemented policies to encourage wider homeownership that helped fuel the housing bubble.  Absurdly, the author tries to blame Goldman for lobbying for these changes, as if maintaining a balanced regulatory structure were Goldman&#39;s job rather than the government&#39;s.  Congress acted to loosen rules on default swaps trades, but Congress shouldn&#39;t be held responsible because the Treasury department lobbied them.  But Treasury shouldn&#39;t be held responsible because it was run by Robert Rubin, who had come from Goldman Sachs.  It&#39;s Goldman&#39;s fault, you see?</p>
<p>3. In all these examples, within just a few years inflated asset values are corrected, fraud punished and stopped.  In the grand scheme of things that&#39;s pretty darn quick.  How long has the drug war been with us?</p>
<p>4. The millions pocketed by executives of insolvent financial firms makes my blood boil too, and I&#39;d like to see more downward pressure on those bonuses.  But I&#39;d rather we optimize the system toward helping the many forward rather than holding the few back, so the few thousand people getting more than they deserve are a distraction from the real question: what best serves the many?  A government-heavy system that betrays the interests of the many whenever the few come a-lobbying is the wrong answer.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193642</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193642</guid>
		<description>Dr J, I agree with all your examples, but disagree that companies are held accountable. They rip off the public, bribe legislators, even screw their stockholders, then laugh all the way to the bank as &quot;the corporate veil&quot; protects their personal asses, er assets, from their misdeeds. Not sure if you&#039;ve caught my several postings of &lt;a href=&quot;http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/06/goldman-sachs-engineering-every-major.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this link&lt;/a&gt;, but I urge you to read it. It&#039;s about how Goldman Sachs has engineered, inflated, deflated and profited from every bubble since the Great Depression. I hope it will temper your trust in unfettered corporatism.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;However, in the case of health care REIMBURSEMENT (remember, we&#039;re not talking about government doctors or hospitals), government already covers more people than any insurance company, or all of them combined. This isn&#039;t an experiment; there are decades of data from all over the world that single payer health care for all works, works at least as well as our system and for much lower cost.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Heehee, Scottish golf nut. Love it (I don&#039;t golf, but do like Scotch). I don&#039;t think I&#039;m off base in characterizing your opposition to a public option as a preference for the current model. You have suggested HSAs as a solution and that patients can bring down costs by negotiating prices with providers, but I consider that unrealistic. Besides, it requires coverage for catastrophic or emergency spending beyond what&#039;s in the HSA, which must be provided either by the predatory insurance industry or the government, which choice I would leave to each individual American. As for spending a lot of time finding private health care options in Europe, it took seconds on the Google.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr J, I agree with all your examples, but disagree that companies are held accountable. They rip off the public, bribe legislators, even screw their stockholders, then laugh all the way to the bank as &#8220;the corporate veil&#8221; protects their personal asses, er assets, from their misdeeds. Not sure if you&#39;ve caught my several postings of <a href="http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/06/goldman-sachs-engineering-every-major.html" rel="nofollow">this link</a>, but I urge you to read it. It&#39;s about how Goldman Sachs has engineered, inflated, deflated and profited from every bubble since the Great Depression. I hope it will temper your trust in unfettered corporatism.</p>
<p>However, in the case of health care REIMBURSEMENT (remember, we&#39;re not talking about government doctors or hospitals), government already covers more people than any insurance company, or all of them combined. This isn&#39;t an experiment; there are decades of data from all over the world that single payer health care for all works, works at least as well as our system and for much lower cost.</p>
<p>Heehee, Scottish golf nut. Love it (I don&#39;t golf, but do like Scotch). I don&#39;t think I&#39;m off base in characterizing your opposition to a public option as a preference for the current model. You have suggested HSAs as a solution and that patients can bring down costs by negotiating prices with providers, but I consider that unrealistic. Besides, it requires coverage for catastrophic or emergency spending beyond what&#39;s in the HSA, which must be provided either by the predatory insurance industry or the government, which choice I would leave to each individual American. As for spending a lot of time finding private health care options in Europe, it took seconds on the Google.</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193574</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193574</guid>
		<description>Dr_J, if in the absence of sound argument all you have left is personal characterizations of someone you don&#039;t know, then it might be best if you refrained from running your fingers over the keyboard. It IS optional you know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr_J, if in the absence of sound argument all you have left is personal characterizations of someone you don&#39;t know, then it might be best if you refrained from running your fingers over the keyboard. It IS optional you know.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr_J</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193520</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr_J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193520</guid>
		<description>GD, thank you for the pointers, looks like you found some more positive stuff than I expected.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m sorry you feel I&#039;m being unreasonable, but here&#039;s the honest truth: the notion that government marshals innovation, customer focus, or cost accountability comparable to private industry simply goes against my experience.  I&#039;m used to lines at the DMV, security theater from TSA, an absurd tax code, an FAA that will be taking 50 years to upgrade its computer systems, a drug war that has brought decades of failure at the expense of our most disadvantaged citizens but can&#039;t be stopped, legislation that reliably sells out the public interest (to the extent such a thing exists) for one interest group or another, a space agency that blows things up, a state government that is now minting its own currency (the IOU), a city government that spends money so foolishly it has to pass bond measures to find the cash to fix potholes, school systems that live at the mercy of teachers&#039; unions and turn out students that can&#039;t read...doo dah, doo dah.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I could go on and on, but what frosts me the most is that while companies are held to account by courts, consumers, and ultimately accountants, government is basically not accountable.  Books need not balance, policies need not work.  Politicians&#039; jobs depend entirely on the sound bites by which voters judge them, not on genuine results.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You&#039;re welcome to call this bias, but it feels to me like simple data points.  I used to work for the federal government perhaps that was my first mistake.  You seem to have a different experience of government; perhaps you&#039;re from Canada?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As for the rest of your post, well, I can&#039;t help you out.  You&#039;ve managed to interpret &quot;our health care system [is] too expensive, leaves too many people uncovered, and...needs reform&quot; as &quot;Dr J is claiming there&#039;s no problem.&quot;  And you&#039;ve brought up insurance yet again, as if I&#039;d said something about it, or as if medical related bankruptcy was caused by insurance bills.  Perhaps you&#039;re one of those Chinese contortionist chicks I saw in the Cirque du Soleil?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Actually based on your photo, my money is on you being a Scottish golf nut.  You&#039;re probably peeved that I&#039;m casting aspersions on the Hebrides.  Sorry about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GD, thank you for the pointers, looks like you found some more positive stuff than I expected.  </p>
<p>I&#39;m sorry you feel I&#39;m being unreasonable, but here&#39;s the honest truth: the notion that government marshals innovation, customer focus, or cost accountability comparable to private industry simply goes against my experience.  I&#39;m used to lines at the DMV, security theater from TSA, an absurd tax code, an FAA that will be taking 50 years to upgrade its computer systems, a drug war that has brought decades of failure at the expense of our most disadvantaged citizens but can&#39;t be stopped, legislation that reliably sells out the public interest (to the extent such a thing exists) for one interest group or another, a space agency that blows things up, a state government that is now minting its own currency (the IOU), a city government that spends money so foolishly it has to pass bond measures to find the cash to fix potholes, school systems that live at the mercy of teachers&#39; unions and turn out students that can&#39;t read&#8230;doo dah, doo dah.</p>
<p>I could go on and on, but what frosts me the most is that while companies are held to account by courts, consumers, and ultimately accountants, government is basically not accountable.  Books need not balance, policies need not work.  Politicians&#39; jobs depend entirely on the sound bites by which voters judge them, not on genuine results.  </p>
<p>You&#39;re welcome to call this bias, but it feels to me like simple data points.  I used to work for the federal government perhaps that was my first mistake.  You seem to have a different experience of government; perhaps you&#39;re from Canada?</p>
<p>As for the rest of your post, well, I can&#39;t help you out.  You&#39;ve managed to interpret &#8220;our health care system [is] too expensive, leaves too many people uncovered, and&#8230;needs reform&#8221; as &#8220;Dr J is claiming there&#39;s no problem.&#8221;  And you&#39;ve brought up insurance yet again, as if I&#39;d said something about it, or as if medical related bankruptcy was caused by insurance bills.  Perhaps you&#39;re one of those Chinese contortionist chicks I saw in the Cirque du Soleil?</p>
<p>Actually based on your photo, my money is on you being a Scottish golf nut.  You&#39;re probably peeved that I&#39;m casting aspersions on the Hebrides.  Sorry about that.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193495</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193495</guid>
		<description>seems once again that Dr J is claiming there&#039;s no problem. Everyone is covered in America. I think most people here know that&#039;s not true. As for &quot;prove&quot; that &quot;innovation&quot; works in single payer systems, there are private clinics and testing services all over the world, including the UK, which actually does have a national health service. It also has private labs and clinics. Here are a few:&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.com/Top/Regional/Europe/United_Kingdom/Health/Services/Private_Healthcare/Clinics/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.google.com/Top/Regional/Europe/Unite...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;example 	The London Radiosurgical Centre - &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.radiosurgery.co.uk/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.radiosurgery.co.uk/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;Radiotherapy treatment, both NHS and private, for malignant or benign brain tumours, blood vessel abnormalities, acoustic neuroma, trigeminal neuralgia and other brain disorders.&lt;br&gt;Another:&lt;br&gt;The entrepreneur who relaunched Pizza Express has been asked to run a chain of NHS cancer clinics. Luke Johnson is in talks with one of Britain&#039;s leading cancer specialists to set up a string of &quot;cancer express&quot; centres that will offer patients every aspect of care from initial screening to chemotherapy&lt;br&gt;and another&lt;br&gt;On the Waiting List in Malta ? Not Insured ?&lt;br&gt;No Problem - We will try to help&lt;br&gt;Day Care Surgery at St. Philip’s Hospital&lt;br&gt;St Philip’s Hospital will be offering Special Prices for Day Care Surgery whilst obviously maintaining our traditional Quality Surgery in a Safe Environment at less than Day Care Clinic Prices !&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Here&#039;s a CNBC video on a European conference on health care innovation. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1135253830&amp;play=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=113525383...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;Unfortunately, since &quot;socialized medicine&quot; kills innovation, they didn&#039;t have anything to talk about. Just kidding of course. How arrogant Americans are to think they are the only innovators because of the profit motive. Open heart surgery, heart transplants, lasik and lots of other cutting edge medical breakthroughs happened not here, because of profit motive, but abroad because just like here, doctors (maybe Dr. J excluded?) are dedicated to advancing the practice of medicine because they happen to like using their brains and skills to advance their field, medicine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>seems once again that Dr J is claiming there&#39;s no problem. Everyone is covered in America. I think most people here know that&#39;s not true. As for &#8220;prove&#8221; that &#8220;innovation&#8221; works in single payer systems, there are private clinics and testing services all over the world, including the UK, which actually does have a national health service. It also has private labs and clinics. Here are a few:<br /><a href="http://www.google.com/Top/Regional/Europe/United_Kingdom/Health/Services/Private_Healthcare/Clinics/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.google.com/Top/Regional/Europe/Unite.." rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/Top/Regional/Europe/Unite..</a>.<br />example 	The London Radiosurgical Centre &#8211; <a href="http://www.radiosurgery.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.radiosurgery.co.uk/</a><br />Radiotherapy treatment, both NHS and private, for malignant or benign brain tumours, blood vessel abnormalities, acoustic neuroma, trigeminal neuralgia and other brain disorders.<br />Another:<br />The entrepreneur who relaunched Pizza Express has been asked to run a chain of NHS cancer clinics. Luke Johnson is in talks with one of Britain&#39;s leading cancer specialists to set up a string of &#8220;cancer express&#8221; centres that will offer patients every aspect of care from initial screening to chemotherapy<br />and another<br />On the Waiting List in Malta ? Not Insured ?<br />No Problem &#8211; We will try to help<br />Day Care Surgery at St. Philip’s Hospital<br />St Philip’s Hospital will be offering Special Prices for Day Care Surgery whilst obviously maintaining our traditional Quality Surgery in a Safe Environment at less than Day Care Clinic Prices !</p>
<p>Here&#39;s a CNBC video on a European conference on health care innovation. <a href="http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1135253830&#038;play=1" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=113525383.." rel="nofollow">http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=113525383..</a>.<br />Unfortunately, since &#8220;socialized medicine&#8221; kills innovation, they didn&#39;t have anything to talk about. Just kidding of course. How arrogant Americans are to think they are the only innovators because of the profit motive. Open heart surgery, heart transplants, lasik and lots of other cutting edge medical breakthroughs happened not here, because of profit motive, but abroad because just like here, doctors (maybe Dr. J excluded?) are dedicated to advancing the practice of medicine because they happen to like using their brains and skills to advance their field, medicine.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193465</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:26:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193465</guid>
		<description>Yes.*&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;*plus any other similar program, and if needed boosted to make up for shortcomings in the programs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes.*</p>
<p>*plus any other similar program, and if needed boosted to make up for shortcomings in the programs.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr_J</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193462</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr_J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:15:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193462</guid>
		<description>What select few are you talking about?  People poor enough to qualify for Medicare?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What select few are you talking about?  People poor enough to qualify for Medicare?</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193459</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193459</guid>
		<description>The point is that by extending public coverage to everybody you eliminate the can&#039;t-afford-healthcare problems across the spectrum, not just for a select few.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point is that by extending public coverage to everybody you eliminate the can&#39;t-afford-healthcare problems across the spectrum, not just for a select few.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr_J</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193454</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr_J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193454</guid>
		<description>Ryan, I&#039;m not sure I understand your point.  Sure, our system isn&#039;t completely private today.  If it were, you&#039;re right, people who were both ill and broke would be SOL.  I haven&#039;t heard anyone advocating such a system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan, I&#39;m not sure I understand your point.  Sure, our system isn&#39;t completely private today.  If it were, you&#39;re right, people who were both ill and broke would be SOL.  I haven&#39;t heard anyone advocating such a system.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr_J</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193448</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr_J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:36:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193448</guid>
		<description>GD, depends on the system. And the innovation here isn&#039;t a private clinic, it&#039;s the McDonaldsization of the private clinic--providing a basic product easier, faster and cheaper than a conventional doctor&#039;s office.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And since your objection didn&#039;t quite speak to my point, let me repeat it.  The advantage I don&#039;t want to lose is not the clinic but the ability to invent a new kind of clinic.  Please show me a socialized system that can do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GD, depends on the system. And the innovation here isn&#39;t a private clinic, it&#39;s the McDonaldsization of the private clinic&#8211;providing a basic product easier, faster and cheaper than a conventional doctor&#39;s office.</p>
<p>And since your objection didn&#39;t quite speak to my point, let me repeat it.  The advantage I don&#39;t want to lose is not the clinic but the ability to invent a new kind of clinic.  Please show me a socialized system that can do that.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193438</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193438</guid>
		<description>The reason you have &#039;choices&#039; is because some bleeding-heart liberal decided to make someone else pay for your health care. There&#039;s no reason to take over the health care providers - they can still exist and earn profit and charge people extra for upgrades, or hell, faster care... but there needs to be a viable last resort option. If you can&#039;t afford upgraded service in an otherwise single-payer system, you can still wait for the test, or the procedure, or what have you, and get it. If the system is totally private, then being unable to afford something means you simply don&#039;t get it no matter how long you wait, and you have no choice at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason you have &#39;choices&#39; is because some bleeding-heart liberal decided to make someone else pay for your health care. There&#39;s no reason to take over the health care providers &#8211; they can still exist and earn profit and charge people extra for upgrades, or hell, faster care&#8230; but there needs to be a viable last resort option. If you can&#39;t afford upgraded service in an otherwise single-payer system, you can still wait for the test, or the procedure, or what have you, and get it. If the system is totally private, then being unable to afford something means you simply don&#39;t get it no matter how long you wait, and you have no choice at all.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193434</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193434</guid>
		<description>one that could never be invented in a socialized system&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;actually, private clinics and hospitals are available in &quot;socialized systems&quot;. So is private insurance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one that could never be invented in a socialized system</p>
<p>actually, private clinics and hospitals are available in &#8220;socialized systems&#8221;. So is private insurance.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr_J</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193429</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr_J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193429</guid>
		<description>Ryan, the options strike various tradeoffs between cost and quality, and even the free choices are almost certainly faster than what he got overseas.  None of them is perfect.  Perfect would have been not being sick to begin with.  But the point is he wouldn&#039;t be out of luck, he&#039;d have choices--more choices than he had in Scotland.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Choices are valuable.  People put different values on money, quality, and time, and a system that&#039;s always free but often slow isn&#039;t the right answer for everyone all the time.  I see a ton of benefit in giving people more than one choice, and in having a system that&#039;s free to invent new choices.  I don&#039;t want to lose these things.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The retail health clinics are an interesting example of companies inventing new ways to give consumers cheaper, simpler, faster choices.  The clinics cut into the doctors&#039; 200-bucks-for-10-minutes business, so the AMA is predictably negative on them.  They&#039;re not a cure-all, but &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nakedmedicine.com/retail-clinics-quick-when-youre-sick&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;they&#039;re a useful option&lt;/a&gt;, and one that could never be invented in a socialized system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan, the options strike various tradeoffs between cost and quality, and even the free choices are almost certainly faster than what he got overseas.  None of them is perfect.  Perfect would have been not being sick to begin with.  But the point is he wouldn&#39;t be out of luck, he&#39;d have choices&#8211;more choices than he had in Scotland.</p>
<p>Choices are valuable.  People put different values on money, quality, and time, and a system that&#39;s always free but often slow isn&#39;t the right answer for everyone all the time.  I see a ton of benefit in giving people more than one choice, and in having a system that&#39;s free to invent new choices.  I don&#39;t want to lose these things.</p>
<p>The retail health clinics are an interesting example of companies inventing new ways to give consumers cheaper, simpler, faster choices.  The clinics cut into the doctors&#39; 200-bucks-for-10-minutes business, so the AMA is predictably negative on them.  They&#39;re not a cure-all, but <a href="http://www.nakedmedicine.com/retail-clinics-quick-when-youre-sick" rel="nofollow">they&#39;re a useful option</a>, and one that could never be invented in a socialized system.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193386</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193386</guid>
		<description>So the options are a) pay for it yourself b) charity and c) force the less poor to pay for it. a) doesn&#039;t generalize. b) is unreliable. c) sounds an awful lot like socialized medicine. If you are going to set up a system where people can get treated regardless of ability to pay then perhaps it would be better to just do that instead of trying to jam the private insurance peg into that hole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So the options are a) pay for it yourself b) charity and c) force the less poor to pay for it. a) doesn&#39;t generalize. b) is unreliable. c) sounds an awful lot like socialized medicine. If you are going to set up a system where people can get treated regardless of ability to pay then perhaps it would be better to just do that instead of trying to jam the private insurance peg into that hole.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193362</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193362</guid>
		<description>Dr_J, I can&#039;t debate this again. Waiting lines and delays are just as much a feature of insurance mediated health care as government insurance mediated health care. Insurance companies do not generally allow quick tests. They have hoops to jump through to see if they can deny it. Most citizens of countries with single payer systems are happier with their systems than most Americans are with ours. This is a red herring issue. My mom&#039;s 89. She&#039;s been on Medicare for 24 years, with ZERO problems. Her doctors are fine with it, and we have discussed it at length. So anecdotes are well and fine. Every system has its horror stories. But our current system is unfair, expensive and delivers mediocre results for top dollar. I hope the Dems don&#039;t cave to the usual Wall St. interests like the GOP surely will. Oh, already has. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;ve had years of experience with the so-called conservative viewpoint and consider it classist and elitist, Wall St vs. Main St, corrupt big business running everything for their profit and the GOP lap dogs lapping it up. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To the point about &quot;bipartisanship&quot; I hope the Dems use the reconciliation process so a majority is enough. Screw this &quot;super majority rule&quot;. It&#039;s a recipe for stalemate and stagnation. The party of NO will not let anything get done at all because they want Obama to fail, meaning they want him to be unable to deal with any of our pressing issues so he&#039;ll appear ineffective. Enough of their obstruction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr_J, I can&#39;t debate this again. Waiting lines and delays are just as much a feature of insurance mediated health care as government insurance mediated health care. Insurance companies do not generally allow quick tests. They have hoops to jump through to see if they can deny it. Most citizens of countries with single payer systems are happier with their systems than most Americans are with ours. This is a red herring issue. My mom&#39;s 89. She&#39;s been on Medicare for 24 years, with ZERO problems. Her doctors are fine with it, and we have discussed it at length. So anecdotes are well and fine. Every system has its horror stories. But our current system is unfair, expensive and delivers mediocre results for top dollar. I hope the Dems don&#39;t cave to the usual Wall St. interests like the GOP surely will. Oh, already has. </p>
<p>I&#39;ve had years of experience with the so-called conservative viewpoint and consider it classist and elitist, Wall St vs. Main St, corrupt big business running everything for their profit and the GOP lap dogs lapping it up. </p>
<p>To the point about &#8220;bipartisanship&#8221; I hope the Dems use the reconciliation process so a majority is enough. Screw this &#8220;super majority rule&#8221;. It&#39;s a recipe for stalemate and stagnation. The party of NO will not let anything get done at all because they want Obama to fail, meaning they want him to be unable to deal with any of our pressing issues so he&#39;ll appear ineffective. Enough of their obstruction.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr_J</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193340</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr_J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193340</guid>
		<description>Here in San Francisco where he lives, we&#039;ve got several free clinics, none of which will send anything to Glasgow for tests.  If he could swing 72 bucks he can actually get quick diagnosis and treatment from &lt;a href=&quot;http://minuteclinic.com/en/USA/Treatment-and-Cost.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the private market&lt;/a&gt;.  If he&#039;s destitute, he can sign up for Medicaid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here in San Francisco where he lives, we&#39;ve got several free clinics, none of which will send anything to Glasgow for tests.  If he could swing 72 bucks he can actually get quick diagnosis and treatment from <a href="http://minuteclinic.com/en/USA/Treatment-and-Cost.aspx" rel="nofollow">the private market</a>.  If he&#39;s destitute, he can sign up for Medicaid.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193323</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193323</guid>
		<description>Dr J: What would have happened to your cousin if he couldn&#039;t afford the tests in the US?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr J: What would have happened to your cousin if he couldn&#39;t afford the tests in the US?</p>
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		<title>By: Dr_J</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193275</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr_J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 05:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193275</guid>
		<description>I did.  I can connect you with my cousin if you&#039;d like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did.  I can connect you with my cousin if you&#39;d like.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38557/forget-bipartisanship-democrats-need-to-do-what-is-right-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-193272</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 05:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38557#comment-193272</guid>
		<description>care to document that, J?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>care to document that, J?</p>
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