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	<title>Comments on: Fred Wilson on Free &amp; the Freeconomics of Freemium</title>
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	<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38139/fred-wilson-on-free-the-freeconomics-of-freemium/</link>
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		<title>By: mikkel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38139/fred-wilson-on-free-the-freeconomics-of-freemium/comment-page-1/#comment-192541</link>
		<dc:creator>mikkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 05:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38139#comment-192541</guid>
		<description>Yes, I hadn&#039;t heard of Neokast but it&#039;s precisely how I see the next wave of the internet going down. If that technology became ubiquitous for not only video but picture/audio delivery as well then I will take back all of my skepticism. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I too fail to see how Twitter will ever make money, and see it more of being like IM which AFAIK has never made money for anyone but is ubiquitous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I hadn&#39;t heard of Neokast but it&#39;s precisely how I see the next wave of the internet going down. If that technology became ubiquitous for not only video but picture/audio delivery as well then I will take back all of my skepticism. </p>
<p>I too fail to see how Twitter will ever make money, and see it more of being like IM which AFAIK has never made money for anyone but is ubiquitous.</p>
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		<title>By: JWindish</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38139/fred-wilson-on-free-the-freeconomics-of-freemium/comment-page-1/#comment-192537</link>
		<dc:creator>JWindish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38139#comment-192537</guid>
		<description>I was a Facebook doubter for a long time. Today I&#039;m something of a Twitter doubter, but a Facebook believer. By believer I mean I believe it is possible for Facebook to become a profitable company. Fred expects self-service ads and virtual goods will grow; that sounds reasonable to me.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As to advertising overall, since the advent of cable networks advertising has not pad for television. Advertising won&#039;t pay for Facebook. But advertisers will increasingly learn how to optimize their message for social networks, and advertising will continue to be a big chunk of revenues. Advertisers want to promote their product. Facebook is where the audience is. They&#039;ll learn to reach that audience. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I agree the cost of electricity and bandwidth is a drain; I think that will be figured out. (If not through distributed P2P, some other way. See for example, Robert X. Cringely on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cringely.com/2009/03/the-neokast-mystery/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Neokast Mystery.&lt;/a&gt;) I found your The State of the News Media most interesting. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a Facebook doubter for a long time. Today I&#39;m something of a Twitter doubter, but a Facebook believer. By believer I mean I believe it is possible for Facebook to become a profitable company. Fred expects self-service ads and virtual goods will grow; that sounds reasonable to me.</p>
<p>As to advertising overall, since the advent of cable networks advertising has not pad for television. Advertising won&#39;t pay for Facebook. But advertisers will increasingly learn how to optimize their message for social networks, and advertising will continue to be a big chunk of revenues. Advertisers want to promote their product. Facebook is where the audience is. They&#39;ll learn to reach that audience. </p>
<p>I agree the cost of electricity and bandwidth is a drain; I think that will be figured out. (If not through distributed P2P, some other way. See for example, Robert X. Cringely on <a href="http://www.cringely.com/2009/03/the-neokast-mystery/" rel="nofollow">The Neokast Mystery.</a>) I found your The State of the News Media most interesting. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: mikkel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38139/fred-wilson-on-free-the-freeconomics-of-freemium/comment-page-1/#comment-192519</link>
		<dc:creator>mikkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38139#comment-192519</guid>
		<description>Here is another &lt;a href=&quot;http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/10/myspace-officia.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;article&lt;/a&gt; talking about the problems with advertising on social networking sites. The advertising dollars are there for right now but they aren&#039;t getting a good return on cost.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;m very surprised that he said this because of all the negative connotations with that phrase:&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;In fact, founder and Chief Executive Mark Zuckerberg says his company just isn&#039;t laser-focused on making money. In an interview with a blogger for the German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, he said: &quot;Growth is primary, revenue is secondary.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is another <a href="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/technology/2008/10/myspace-officia.html" rel="nofollow">article</a> talking about the problems with advertising on social networking sites. The advertising dollars are there for right now but they aren&#39;t getting a good return on cost.</p>
<p>I&#39;m very surprised that he said this because of all the negative connotations with that phrase:<br />
<blockquote>In fact, founder and Chief Executive Mark Zuckerberg says his company just isn&#39;t laser-focused on making money. In an interview with a blogger for the German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, he said: &#8220;Growth is primary, revenue is secondary.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: mikkel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38139/fred-wilson-on-free-the-freeconomics-of-freemium/comment-page-1/#comment-192518</link>
		<dc:creator>mikkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 23:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38139#comment-192518</guid>
		<description>Perhaps I have overstated the numbers because the revenue grew faster than I had last read. Here is the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/10/31/facebooks-growing-problem/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;source&lt;/a&gt; that I was thinking of, and one that talks about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.slate.com/id/2216162&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;YouTube&#039;s problems.&lt;/a&gt; It seems like the (temporary) Microsoft deal has filled the gap that is referred to. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But my overall critique still stands. As the sites mature and stop their user growth, their revenues will start getting capped while the content growth is constant...leading to exponential bandwidth and storage costs (or degradation in performance). Fred does talk about it as per person instead of site views, which is refreshing, but does hand waving about how they are going to increase that. Perhaps I&#039;ll be proven wrong, but so far no one has figured out how to keep per user revenues increasing at the rate of consumption; especially due to the &quot;power user&quot; effect where a very small percentage of users (10-15% for most networks) are responsible for 90% of activity.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And that is without the volatility I mentioned. Advertising in general is contracting, but a lot of print and tv revenue is going over to internet so they aren&#039;t seeing it...yet. Growth was &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.stateofthemedia.org/2009/narrative_online_economics.php?cat=3&amp;media=5&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;10% in 2008&lt;/a&gt; but may be &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gerek.info/internet-advertising-growth&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;much less this year.&lt;/a&gt; Set against the overall economic backdrop, I&#039;d be surprised if it didn&#039;t flatten out/turn negative by 2010. Even then a very slow growth economy will see advertisement budgets flat and perhaps move back to TV/papers a bit as discretionary spending continues to fall [in order to target older demographics]. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;ll eat my hat if the Web 2.0 model succeeds, but this is something that I&#039;ve done a lot of research on and I believe is structural in nature. It&#039;s all about the bandwidth and storage...if they move to a distributed P2P content delivery and and ISPs get on the ball, then they&#039;ll be able to profit easily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps I have overstated the numbers because the revenue grew faster than I had last read. Here is the <a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/10/31/facebooks-growing-problem/" rel="nofollow">source</a> that I was thinking of, and one that talks about <a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2216162" rel="nofollow">YouTube&#39;s problems.</a> It seems like the (temporary) Microsoft deal has filled the gap that is referred to. </p>
<p>But my overall critique still stands. As the sites mature and stop their user growth, their revenues will start getting capped while the content growth is constant&#8230;leading to exponential bandwidth and storage costs (or degradation in performance). Fred does talk about it as per person instead of site views, which is refreshing, but does hand waving about how they are going to increase that. Perhaps I&#39;ll be proven wrong, but so far no one has figured out how to keep per user revenues increasing at the rate of consumption; especially due to the &#8220;power user&#8221; effect where a very small percentage of users (10-15% for most networks) are responsible for 90% of activity.</p>
<p>And that is without the volatility I mentioned. Advertising in general is contracting, but a lot of print and tv revenue is going over to internet so they aren&#39;t seeing it&#8230;yet. Growth was <a href="http://www.stateofthemedia.org/2009/narrative_online_economics.php?cat=3&#038;media=5" rel="nofollow">10% in 2008</a> but may be <a href="http://www.gerek.info/internet-advertising-growth" rel="nofollow">much less this year.</a> Set against the overall economic backdrop, I&#39;d be surprised if it didn&#39;t flatten out/turn negative by 2010. Even then a very slow growth economy will see advertisement budgets flat and perhaps move back to TV/papers a bit as discretionary spending continues to fall [in order to target older demographics]. </p>
<p>I&#39;ll eat my hat if the Web 2.0 model succeeds, but this is something that I&#39;ve done a lot of research on and I believe is structural in nature. It&#39;s all about the bandwidth and storage&#8230;if they move to a distributed P2P content delivery and and ISPs get on the ball, then they&#39;ll be able to profit easily.</p>
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		<title>By: JWindish</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38139/fred-wilson-on-free-the-freeconomics-of-freemium/comment-page-1/#comment-192514</link>
		<dc:creator>JWindish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38139#comment-192514</guid>
		<description>Um, Mikkel, I&#039;ve updated my post for clarity. Obviously I don&#039;t agree with your assessment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, Mikkel, I&#39;ve updated my post for clarity. Obviously I don&#39;t agree with your assessment.</p>
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		<title>By: mikkel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38139/fred-wilson-on-free-the-freeconomics-of-freemium/comment-page-1/#comment-192505</link>
		<dc:creator>mikkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 20:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38139#comment-192505</guid>
		<description>Um, Facebook &lt;i&gt;revenue&lt;/i&gt; yes, but they are still losing hundreds of millions. I think that the Web 2.0 bubble is getting to be as large as Web 1.0; advertising based models can&#039;t support any industry because revenues are too volatile. If the economic woes continue another year or two most of the internet will be dead as ad revenue dries up. There is a reason why newspapers are dying, all network TV has long been part of conglomerates that make their money elsewhere and business oriented sites with low bandwidth/storage needs (including the search engines) are the only ones making profits on ad revenue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, Facebook <i>revenue</i> yes, but they are still losing hundreds of millions. I think that the Web 2.0 bubble is getting to be as large as Web 1.0; advertising based models can&#39;t support any industry because revenues are too volatile. If the economic woes continue another year or two most of the internet will be dead as ad revenue dries up. There is a reason why newspapers are dying, all network TV has long been part of conglomerates that make their money elsewhere and business oriented sites with low bandwidth/storage needs (including the search engines) are the only ones making profits on ad revenue.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred Wilson on Free &#38; the Freeconomics of Freemium &#124; Earn And Make Money</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/38139/fred-wilson-on-free-the-freeconomics-of-freemium/comment-page-1/#comment-192504</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Wilson on Free &#38; the Freeconomics of Freemium &#124; Earn And Make Money</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 19:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=38139#comment-192504</guid>
		<description>[...] original post here: Fred Wilson on Free &amp; the Freeconomics of Freemium Related Posts:How To Make Money Online Work From Home Jobs FREE Join Earn Easy On The InternetFree [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] original post here: Fred Wilson on Free &amp; the Freeconomics of Freemium Related Posts:How To Make Money Online Work From Home Jobs FREE Join Earn Easy On The InternetFree [...]</p>
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