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	<title>Comments on: NPR Ombudsman Says No to Greenwald Interview on Torture</title>
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	<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/37932/npr-ombudsman-says-no-to-greenwald-interview-on-torture/</link>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/37932/npr-ombudsman-says-no-to-greenwald-interview-on-torture/comment-page-1/#comment-192633</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=37932#comment-192633</guid>
		<description>&quot;euphemisms like &#039;harsh [or &#039;enhanced&#039;] interrogation techniques&#039; when writing about the interrogation practices sanctioned and used by the Bush administration&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Laying aside the question of how often this was done with a wink and a nudge because everyone knows it&#039;s torture, it&#039;s a drop in the ocean of misuse of euphemisms like &quot;insurgents&quot; and &quot;freedom fighters&quot; for the correct word &quot;terrorists.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;euphemisms like &#39;harsh [or &#39;enhanced&#39;] interrogation techniques&#39; when writing about the interrogation practices sanctioned and used by the Bush administration&#8221;</p>
<p>Laying aside the question of how often this was done with a wink and a nudge because everyone knows it&#39;s torture, it&#39;s a drop in the ocean of misuse of euphemisms like &#8220;insurgents&#8221; and &#8220;freedom fighters&#8221; for the correct word &#8220;terrorists.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Don Quijote</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/37932/npr-ombudsman-says-no-to-greenwald-interview-on-torture/comment-page-1/#comment-192356</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Quijote</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=37932#comment-192356</guid>
		<description>I really don&#039;t know why we are having this argument, the law is about precedent and the precedent in this case is pretty straight forward. Japanese have been tried and convicted for water-boarding US POW. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Waterboarding Used to Be a Crime&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;After World War II, we convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American and Allied prisoners of war. At the trial of his captors, then-Lt. Chase J. Nielsen, one of the 1942 Army Air Forces officers who flew in the Doolittle Raid and was captured by the Japanese, testified: &quot;I was given several types of torture. I was given what they call the water cure.&quot; He was asked what he felt when the Japanese soldiers poured the water. &quot;Well, I felt more or less like I was drowning,&quot; he replied, &quot;just gasping between life and death.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Nielsen&#039;s experience was not unique. Nor was the prosecution of his captors. After Japan surrendered, the United States organized and participated in the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, generally called the Tokyo War Crimes Trials. Leading members of Japan&#039;s military and government elite were charged, among their many other crimes, with torturing Allied military personnel and civilians. The principal proof upon which their torture convictions were based was conduct that we would now call waterboarding.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In this case from the tribunal&#039;s records, the victim was a prisoner in the Japanese-occupied Dutch East Indies:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A towel was fixed under the chin and down over the face. Then many buckets of water were poured into the towel so that the water gradually reached the mouth and rising further eventually also the nostrils, which resulted in his becoming unconscious and collapsing like a person drowned. This procedure was sometimes repeated 5-6 times in succession.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The United States (like Britain, Australia and other Allies) pursued lower-ranking Japanese war criminals in trials before their own tribunals. As a general rule, the testimony was similar to Nielsen&#039;s. Consider this account from a Filipino waterboarding victim:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Q: Was it painful?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A: Not so painful, but one becomes unconscious. Like drowning in the water.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Q: Like you were drowning?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;A: Drowning -- you could hardly breathe.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Here&#039;s the testimony of two Americans imprisoned by the Japanese:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;They would lash me to a stretcher then prop me up against a table with my head down. They would then pour about two gallons of water from a pitcher into my nose and mouth until I lost consciousness.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And from the second prisoner: They laid me out on a stretcher and strapped me on. The stretcher was then stood on end with my head almost touching the floor and my feet in the air. . . . They then began pouring water over my face and at times it was almost impossible for me to breathe without sucking in water.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As a result of such accounts, a number of Japanese prison-camp officers and guards were convicted of torture that clearly violated the laws of war. They were not the only defendants convicted in such cases. As far back as the U.S. occupation of the Philippines after the 1898 Spanish-American War, U.S. soldiers were court-martialed for using the &quot;water cure&quot; to question Filipino guerrillas. &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#39;t know why we are having this argument, the law is about precedent and the precedent in this case is pretty straight forward. Japanese have been tried and convicted for water-boarding US POW. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html" rel="nofollow">Waterboarding Used to Be a Crime</a><br />
<blockquote>After World War II, we convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American and Allied prisoners of war. At the trial of his captors, then-Lt. Chase J. Nielsen, one of the 1942 Army Air Forces officers who flew in the Doolittle Raid and was captured by the Japanese, testified: &#8220;I was given several types of torture. I was given what they call the water cure.&#8221; He was asked what he felt when the Japanese soldiers poured the water. &#8220;Well, I felt more or less like I was drowning,&#8221; he replied, &#8220;just gasping between life and death.&#8221;</p>
<p>Nielsen&#39;s experience was not unique. Nor was the prosecution of his captors. After Japan surrendered, the United States organized and participated in the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, generally called the Tokyo War Crimes Trials. Leading members of Japan&#39;s military and government elite were charged, among their many other crimes, with torturing Allied military personnel and civilians. The principal proof upon which their torture convictions were based was conduct that we would now call waterboarding.</p>
<p>In this case from the tribunal&#39;s records, the victim was a prisoner in the Japanese-occupied Dutch East Indies:</p>
<p>A towel was fixed under the chin and down over the face. Then many buckets of water were poured into the towel so that the water gradually reached the mouth and rising further eventually also the nostrils, which resulted in his becoming unconscious and collapsing like a person drowned. This procedure was sometimes repeated 5-6 times in succession.</p>
<p>The United States (like Britain, Australia and other Allies) pursued lower-ranking Japanese war criminals in trials before their own tribunals. As a general rule, the testimony was similar to Nielsen&#39;s. Consider this account from a Filipino waterboarding victim:</p>
<p>Q: Was it painful?</p>
<p>A: Not so painful, but one becomes unconscious. Like drowning in the water.</p>
<p>Q: Like you were drowning?</p>
<p>A: Drowning &#8212; you could hardly breathe.</p>
<p>Here&#39;s the testimony of two Americans imprisoned by the Japanese:</p>
<p>They would lash me to a stretcher then prop me up against a table with my head down. They would then pour about two gallons of water from a pitcher into my nose and mouth until I lost consciousness.</p>
<p>And from the second prisoner: They laid me out on a stretcher and strapped me on. The stretcher was then stood on end with my head almost touching the floor and my feet in the air. . . . They then began pouring water over my face and at times it was almost impossible for me to breathe without sucking in water.</p>
<p>As a result of such accounts, a number of Japanese prison-camp officers and guards were convicted of torture that clearly violated the laws of war. They were not the only defendants convicted in such cases. As far back as the U.S. occupation of the Philippines after the 1898 Spanish-American War, U.S. soldiers were court-martialed for using the &#8220;water cure&#8221; to question Filipino guerrillas. </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Father_Time</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/37932/npr-ombudsman-says-no-to-greenwald-interview-on-torture/comment-page-1/#comment-192352</link>
		<dc:creator>Father_Time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=37932#comment-192352</guid>
		<description>The most stressing part of all of this for me, is that nobody above the rank of lowly staff sergeant has ever been prosecuted for Abu Gareb, and, that people were actually tortured to death there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most stressing part of all of this for me, is that nobody above the rank of lowly staff sergeant has ever been prosecuted for Abu Gareb, and, that people were actually tortured to death there.</p>
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		<title>By: Kynes</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/37932/npr-ombudsman-says-no-to-greenwald-interview-on-torture/comment-page-1/#comment-192334</link>
		<dc:creator>Kynes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 14:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=37932#comment-192334</guid>
		<description>In the first place, there is no reason that Shepard herself should be attacked personally for the opinions that she, as an ombudsman, is relaying to the public.  She has made it clear on several occasions, most recently on a &quot;Talk of the Nation&quot; interview earlier this week, that she believes waterboarding to be torture, but as an ombudsman she must represent the opinions and policies of the NPR network as a whole.  Attacking the network for its policies is fine, but do not burn the messenger.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In reference to waterboarding itself, as much as you may want to believe otherwise, there are many people in the United States who believe fervently that waterboarding is not torture in the slightest, primarily because it does not cause &quot;the pain of organ failure.&quot;  When it is appropriate, NPR represents the opinions of those they are reporting on; when they hold the opinion that waterboarding is torture, it is reported as such, and vise versa.  As long as there is political debate occurring as to whether waterboarding is indeed torture, I believe that it is a news organization&#039;s responsibility to relay both opinions to the public.  This decay of American journalism that you speak of does not come from policies similar to NPR&#039;s, it comes from the blatant partisan leaning done by networks such as Fox or MSNBC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the first place, there is no reason that Shepard herself should be attacked personally for the opinions that she, as an ombudsman, is relaying to the public.  She has made it clear on several occasions, most recently on a &#8220;Talk of the Nation&#8221; interview earlier this week, that she believes waterboarding to be torture, but as an ombudsman she must represent the opinions and policies of the NPR network as a whole.  Attacking the network for its policies is fine, but do not burn the messenger.</p>
<p>In reference to waterboarding itself, as much as you may want to believe otherwise, there are many people in the United States who believe fervently that waterboarding is not torture in the slightest, primarily because it does not cause &#8220;the pain of organ failure.&#8221;  When it is appropriate, NPR represents the opinions of those they are reporting on; when they hold the opinion that waterboarding is torture, it is reported as such, and vise versa.  As long as there is political debate occurring as to whether waterboarding is indeed torture, I believe that it is a news organization&#39;s responsibility to relay both opinions to the public.  This decay of American journalism that you speak of does not come from policies similar to NPR&#39;s, it comes from the blatant partisan leaning done by networks such as Fox or MSNBC.</p>
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