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	<title>Comments on: Obama&#8217;s Catalog Of Universal Rights</title>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/36570/obamas-catalog-of-universal-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-190353</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=36570#comment-190353</guid>
		<description>David,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;ll give you an example of substance I was moved to consider (and I still consider it) since Obama&#039;s speech in Cairo.  It&#039;s a small amount of substance compared to how far there is to go related to it, but it&#039;s a true start and a true change for the better.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;He was not only trying to calm down an ignorant and at-times neurotic population, but he actually did challenge them (as opposed to being the &quot;apologist&quot; rightist critics accused him of being) by acting on what they routinely discuss (because they are facts) behind closed doors.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Bearing this in mind, along with his addressing of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (he was inaccurate to put Israel into effectively the same moral position as its enemies, and wrong to bluntly and openly reveal his administration&#039;s excessive demands of Israel, weaking its negotiating power and position), he has given the people there a challenge to be more honest and make progress toward peace.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The Nobel Peace Prize is hugely tarnished of leftist politics in what it routinely is awarded for, and why.  We saw that not only when it was awarded to Jimmy Carter as a childish slap at Bush after launching the war in Iraq, but most recently with Al Gore and rewarding his perverse celebrity based on irreponsible hype and alarmism and association with the worst of the environmentalist activist pathology related to climate and &quot;climate change.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Now let us consider Obama, a lefty, subject to a lot of valid (as well as invalid) criticism.  His foreign policy threatens still to be naive or against US interests at least in sentiment (a Sixties legacy that harms the USA to this day).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But consider his speech and his challenge to _everyone_ (not only Israel) in the Middle East.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What if Obama led an effort that merely began a peace process, but a _serious_ peace process marked by _serious_ accomplishments?  The example best possible to name would be formal recognition by the Arabs (and later by Iran) of Israel.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Merely getting Israel to be recognized is a true, serious, _substantial_ achievement, as small as it is on the way to complete peace and advanced development of Israel&#039;s neighbors (outside the scope merely of the Palestine &quot;question&quot;).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If Obama engineered talks or a process that led to Israel&#039;s formal recognition by the Arabs, Obama would deserve the next Nobel Peace Prize afterward, and that prize would actually be worth something this time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>I&#39;ll give you an example of substance I was moved to consider (and I still consider it) since Obama&#39;s speech in Cairo.  It&#39;s a small amount of substance compared to how far there is to go related to it, but it&#39;s a true start and a true change for the better.</p>
<p>He was not only trying to calm down an ignorant and at-times neurotic population, but he actually did challenge them (as opposed to being the &#8220;apologist&#8221; rightist critics accused him of being) by acting on what they routinely discuss (because they are facts) behind closed doors.</p>
<p>Bearing this in mind, along with his addressing of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (he was inaccurate to put Israel into effectively the same moral position as its enemies, and wrong to bluntly and openly reveal his administration&#39;s excessive demands of Israel, weaking its negotiating power and position), he has given the people there a challenge to be more honest and make progress toward peace.</p>
<p>The Nobel Peace Prize is hugely tarnished of leftist politics in what it routinely is awarded for, and why.  We saw that not only when it was awarded to Jimmy Carter as a childish slap at Bush after launching the war in Iraq, but most recently with Al Gore and rewarding his perverse celebrity based on irreponsible hype and alarmism and association with the worst of the environmentalist activist pathology related to climate and &#8220;climate change.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now let us consider Obama, a lefty, subject to a lot of valid (as well as invalid) criticism.  His foreign policy threatens still to be naive or against US interests at least in sentiment (a Sixties legacy that harms the USA to this day).</p>
<p>But consider his speech and his challenge to _everyone_ (not only Israel) in the Middle East.</p>
<p>What if Obama led an effort that merely began a peace process, but a _serious_ peace process marked by _serious_ accomplishments?  The example best possible to name would be formal recognition by the Arabs (and later by Iran) of Israel.</p>
<p>Merely getting Israel to be recognized is a true, serious, _substantial_ achievement, as small as it is on the way to complete peace and advanced development of Israel&#39;s neighbors (outside the scope merely of the Palestine &#8220;question&#8221;).</p>
<p>If Obama engineered talks or a process that led to Israel&#39;s formal recognition by the Arabs, Obama would deserve the next Nobel Peace Prize afterward, and that prize would actually be worth something this time.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/36570/obamas-catalog-of-universal-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-190344</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=36570#comment-190344</guid>
		<description>David,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Never discount the fluffily symbolic!&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I&#039;ve not wrongfully devalued it, but I also admonish people not to give it more than it is due.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To continue addressing the language you used, it and its value have already been accounted for in the &quot;market&quot; (of ideas as well as news).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>&#8220;Never discount the fluffily symbolic!&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#39;ve not wrongfully devalued it, but I also admonish people not to give it more than it is due.</p>
<p>To continue addressing the language you used, it and its value have already been accounted for in the &#8220;market&#8221; (of ideas as well as news).</p>
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		<title>By: adesnik</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/36570/obamas-catalog-of-universal-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-190328</link>
		<dc:creator>adesnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=36570#comment-190328</guid>
		<description>Never discount the fluffily symbolic!  As Jimmy Carter once said, &quot;In the life of the human spirit, words are action, much more so than many of us may realize who live in countries where freedom of expression is taken for granted. The leaders of totalitarian nations understand this very well. The proof is that words are precisely the action for which dissidents in those countries are being persecuted.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Perhaps the regime will still crush the uprising.  Then Obama can get to work on showing that he meant it when he said Iran&#039;s status in the international community will depend on how it treats its own people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never discount the fluffily symbolic!  As Jimmy Carter once said, &#8220;In the life of the human spirit, words are action, much more so than many of us may realize who live in countries where freedom of expression is taken for granted. The leaders of totalitarian nations understand this very well. The proof is that words are precisely the action for which dissidents in those countries are being persecuted.&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps the regime will still crush the uprising.  Then Obama can get to work on showing that he meant it when he said Iran&#39;s status in the international community will depend on how it treats its own people.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/36570/obamas-catalog-of-universal-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-190318</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=36570#comment-190318</guid>
		<description>What can or should we (the USA, its government) do, short of invading the country and removing the existing regime?  What can we do that is _substantial_ as opposed to merely, fluffily symbolic?  The Iranian people already know we&#039;re sympathetic to them (they have long known we don&#039;t like their current government) and they know we are receiving information outside normal channels from them, and in fact we have been communicating with them.  Words already have been said, and done their realistic most.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What can or should we (the USA, its government) do, short of invading the country and removing the existing regime?  What can we do that is _substantial_ as opposed to merely, fluffily symbolic?  The Iranian people already know we&#39;re sympathetic to them (they have long known we don&#39;t like their current government) and they know we are receiving information outside normal channels from them, and in fact we have been communicating with them.  Words already have been said, and done their realistic most.</p>
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		<title>By: adesnik</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/36570/obamas-catalog-of-universal-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-190313</link>
		<dc:creator>adesnik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=36570#comment-190313</guid>
		<description>I completely disagree.  We should not wait and see.  We should let the friends of democracy in Iran know that the world is watching.  As we learned from Lech Walesa, Vaclav Havel and other brave dissidents during the Cold War, encouragement from the free world is essential.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely disagree.  We should not wait and see.  We should let the friends of democracy in Iran know that the world is watching.  As we learned from Lech Walesa, Vaclav Havel and other brave dissidents during the Cold War, encouragement from the free world is essential.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/36570/obamas-catalog-of-universal-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-190311</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=36570#comment-190311</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s no need for the Republicans to be outraged at Obama (feebly imitating liberal Outrage! [tm]) and tossing cheap shots at him, and there&#039;s no need for the lefties to be obscessed with the strife in Iran, much less think that they have &quot;adopted&quot; or &quot;own&quot; it (they&#039;re hardly in a morally superior position within Western society), or play PC-techno-toy games of obscession with Twitter and other newer media.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Iran is experiencing internal problems, has experienced a questionable election, is seeing riots and a catharsis among the citizens, especially among the post-Revolutionary younger crowd, and there is no way to know how this will end, and little we can or should do, and we have to calm down, grow up, and wait and see how this is resolved.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There&#039;s no need to obscess about this, and no need for so many threads about the same thing on here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#39;s no need for the Republicans to be outraged at Obama (feebly imitating liberal Outrage! [tm]) and tossing cheap shots at him, and there&#39;s no need for the lefties to be obscessed with the strife in Iran, much less think that they have &#8220;adopted&#8221; or &#8220;own&#8221; it (they&#39;re hardly in a morally superior position within Western society), or play PC-techno-toy games of obscession with Twitter and other newer media.</p>
<p>Iran is experiencing internal problems, has experienced a questionable election, is seeing riots and a catharsis among the citizens, especially among the post-Revolutionary younger crowd, and there is no way to know how this will end, and little we can or should do, and we have to calm down, grow up, and wait and see how this is resolved.</p>
<p>There&#39;s no need to obscess about this, and no need for so many threads about the same thing on here.</p>
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