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The Real Republicans: The Case for Moderates, Liberal, and Pragmatic Conservatives in Our Party part 5

“These extremists feed on fear, hate and terror. They have no program for America – no program for the Republican party. They have no solution for our problems of chronic unemployment, of education, of agriculture, or racial injustice or strife… On the contrary – they spread distrust. They engender suspicion. They encourage disunity…There is no place in this Republican party for such hawkers of hate, such purveyors of prejudice, such fabricators of fear…These people have nothing in common with Republicanism. The Republican party must repudiate these people.” -Nelson Rockefeller 1964 Republican convention

Missed opportunities abound and mistakes have been made in our recent past. The conservative movement was looking for a new home, as the libertarian/constitutional conservatives had been slowly deprived from their party during Franklin Roosevelt’s tenure in office and his heavy handed use of government. Libertarian conservatives predominantly from the western states as well as states’ rights’ Dixiecrats from the south, who vehemently believed against federal action to desegregate the south, an idea that fit nicely with conservatism and the general message of hands of libertarianism, would continue to feel pushed as the civil rights issues of the 1960’s continued to roil the Democratic party with intense division.

While liberalism was the predominant force in post World War 2 era and both parties having strong center to center left factions in charge, conservatives were left without a home. Throughout these years conservative sought to regain influence, and to do so one of the two major parties would become theirs. While they kept pushing in the Democratic Party, conservatives in the Republican Party began to have more sway as their ranks filled with disaffected former democrats. Subversive planning and execution by planting their own into places of GOP power to be constantly informed of ideas and decisions was just one of a multitude of examples of how the conservative movement was truly willing to do whatever it took to make their goals of a conservative dominated party come true. As the 1964 primary came with libertarian conservative Barry Goldwater beating out liberal Nelson Rockefeller, the evident change the Republican Party was beginning to witness was evident.

In some Goldwater support groups, images of Lincoln and Ike were taken down or covered up and one insider even commented on how it didn’t matter if Goldwater won the presidential election. What mattered were their overall efforts, symbolized by their candidates’ victory over the moderates and the liberals, to convert the Republican Party of Lincoln and of Teddy Roosevelt into their party of anti-government libertarians and segregationist social conservatives. Even if he lost, they knew, they would be well on their way to achieving just that. Liberals and moderates would end up trying to capitalize on Barry Goldwater’s crushing defeat, but their earlier mistakes in countering the conservative swelling of their party as well as their overall belief in party unity versus standing up for their ideals which would roil the party with internal strife would play pivotal roles in their eventual defeat and loss of their own party.

A major chance the moderate and liberal Republicans had in their favor was the primary win of Dwight D. Eisenhower over the conservative nominee and his subsequent victory in the presidential elections. His election put an end to Democratic domination of the presidency for the previous decades which had been in their hands in no small part due to the catastrophic conservative handling of the Great Depression. President Eisenhower considered himself a moderate, not as leftward as leading GOP liberals Nelson Rockefeller and Thomas Dewey, but certainly not a conservative. In fact a statement Ike said put his personal views into a nice perspective in dealing with the conservative faction.

“I have just one purpose, outside the job of keeping this world at peace, and that is to build up a strong progressive Republican party in this country…If the right wing wants a fight, they’re going to get it. If they want to leave the Republican Party and form a third party, that’s their business…If they think they can nominate a right-wing Old Guard Republican for the presidency, they’ve got another thought coming. I’ll go up and down this country, campaigning against them. I’ll fight them right down the line.”- Dwight D. Eisenhower

In fact, many conservatives and libertarians from both the Democratic and Republican parties considered forming a far-right party, but eventually believed that the GOP could serve their interests and their beliefs. Sadly, it was Ike himself who lost the opportunity throughout his presidency to vocally and vigorously stand for the moderate and liberals in his administration and in his party for more reason than one. He had been nearly defeated by the Old Guard conservatives in his first presidential run, and always seemed to overestimate their ability to discredit or politically harm him. Preserving his image of a president and probably more so, the general for all the people regardless of parties or ideologies, was notably also in his mind put this into conflict with his desire for what the future of the party should be. Unfortunately this led to his time period actually resulting in the slowly building overt and covert takeover of the party. His administration when dealing with domestic partisan politics simply became a prime example of a missed political opportunity to keep the party centrist before the new generation of radicalized libertarian conservatives would replace the more tempered Old Guard conservatives.

Some of the same political maneuverings done by these new libertarian conservatives would be later applied by the social/theological conservatives in the 1980’s after the call to arms by evangelical leaders put forward a whole new type of radicalism. A radicalism that even Mr. Conservative himself Barry Goldwater, who had uttered the words of “extremism…is no vice”, would himself denounce as “a bunch of kooks”. This along with the rise of the neo-cons would lead to a continuing falling away from the original and true Republicanism as espoused by Lincoln, McKinley, Teddy Roosevelt and Eisenhower and would help culminate into the party that would rule the government in the early to mid 2000’s.

While it was these “kooks” who ended up controlling today’s party, it would be the at times subversive, hate filled, hard-line, states’ rights, libertarian-conservative takeover of the Republican party by the Goldwaterites that would lead to the doors of extremism being thrown open for decades to come with the original moderates, liberals and even center-right conservatives being unable to stop the tide.

All three brands of conservatism of the neocons, social cons, and libertarian cons would come together in what would be a continuation of the Fusionism that allied the hands-off government libertarian conservatives in the west, who supposedly where the true libertarians in terms of having generally the “live let live” view of society but believed in using government as little as possible even when dealing with civil rights, with the vitriol of the southern segregationist conservatives, a marriage of convenience that would serve the more traditional and generally center-right minded and tempered Old Guard conservatives by enabling them power to fully take over the party and that would enable the disaffected southern democrats to find a new home for their Dixiecrats. Unfortunately, all this did was bring about an extreme radicalizing of the more traditional Old Guards or, as I said before, in some ways a complete replacement of this more pragmatic and realistic conservatism with a hate and poison filled segregationist version from the Dixiecrats and anti-government hatred from the staunch libertarians.

From then on and until today, Fusion conservatism would dominate the party and let into the mix with some grumblings from the libertarians, the theocrats and warmongering neo-cons who along with the traditional hatred of government would reshape how the party ideology would be like whenever they would take full control of government. The Old Guard libertarian conservatism that was focused solely on government and market conservatism without the near total government rejectionist view of full blown libertarianism would cease to exist or become clumped with the remaining centrists as moderate.

As with Ike in these party affairs, original moderates and liberals would answer back with inaction and missed opportunities early on and while some would try to capitalize on the conservative’s devastating defeat in the 1964 election, it would end up being too little too late. In some cases, their desire to expand the party to garner more votes would put them in favor or at least let those who supported the Southern Strategy have their way. Even when liberals such as Grant Reynolds, an African American liberal republican who complained about the Southern Strategy and pointed out how it would not only trade out the black support but also basic Republican social beliefs for the Dixiecrat support, he was told by other moderates that he should be fighting more against the democrats than worrying about the party’s political strategy.

A general belief among many liberals and moderates was that the party with their conservative wing being mostly the center-right business oriented conservatives, would still be a centrist party with the moderate and liberal Midwestern and Northeastern regions being the core of Republican support. Maybe, it was thought, expanding the big tent to the south would be helpful in making the party a majority party as it had been several times in the past, but had not been for some time. This lack of foresight, misreading, and miscalculation into what was slowly going on around them would start to lead to their demise or near demise over the many years to come.

The liberal Republican started to fade away fast after 1970’s as the party became much more visibly conservative and have practically ceased to exist in today’s world for quite some years. Some merely quit from politics or others switched to the only party that at least had a semblance to their belief in an active government, even if it was not their original Republican take on liberalism. Liberal republicanism, despite its roots and command in the Republican from the party’s conception, would end up becoming a forgotten viable political faction with most modern people seeing it as merely an oxymoron. Like the way the label moderate is used by the right, the term liberal republican is used by many extreme conservatives to label anyone who might have a liberal lean towards any issue, and especially if they just don’t like their less not so extreme take of politics. Such for example, those who are socially liberal yet in every way an economic or government conservative may be called a “liberal republican” by those who seek to defeat them for a more hard-line and acceptable opponent. For it to have come to this for this wing of the party is to show how well the conservatives had succeeded in their takeover and distortion of the true and honest goals of original Republicanism.

The moderates would continue to hold out for many years, voting for Reagan in no small part due to his putting on the ballot for vice president an Old Guard conservative in the form of H.W Bush, or who by that time and especially in today’s world would have been and was regarded as a moderate. This helped assuage some concern in general voters’ minds that was present of Reagan being from the conservative wing maybe being too far-right for their moderate views. Reagan himself was able to sweep the 1980 republican primary with great help from the South that by then was quickly becoming the anchor of the Republican Party. As did many political party leaders before him, he continued to pursue the southern strategy and helped bring in more of the evangelical southern vote to the GOP ballot box.

H.W Bush would, because of his more tempered, reasonable and pragmatic conservatism of old, pay the price of this decade’s long influx of the many conservative brands into the party with the serious challenge by the social conservative of Pat Buchanan in the primaries and the general belief that he was not truly conservative.

Even those such as H.W Bush, who would have at an earlier time been considered obviously conservative, were no longer conservative due to their reluctance to adhere to this new breed of extremism. Today if one is along the lines of the original Old Guard conservatism of the early 20th century which believed in small government but also one of sound economic goals such as lowering taxes along with the necessary adjustment in spending, something lost with Goldwater and Reagan, and social progress through government such as women’s rights, they would undoubtedly be considered moderate. Although in comparison to how far-right the conservative brand has moved to, it’s not hard to see them as “moderate”.

Since the Reagan years, all primaries for the nomination for the party presidential bid have been where candidates show just how far-right they can be, whoever does not and does not share at least one of the three conservative views on policy will have a hard time securing the nomination. In doing so, it has been effectively set so that any moderate candidate has very little chance of winning a presidential primary. At least, with the current makeup of the base the party itself rests upon.

Moderates, although a force even throughout the generally conservative Reagan years, would soon be set on the same path of virtual extinction as the liberal republican. While groups have formed to try and make a more inclusive party, most of them still work within the box instead of outside of it by accepting the base being built on the far-right while any outreach leftward must emanate from the extreme; a far-right to center strategy. Of course there will not be any real attempt to moderate the party as long as the extremists are in charge and what outreach towards the center they would make would be merely to try and expand their power base of electability keeping those who would be maybe more moderate in comparison (but historically speaking still very much conservative) to themselves on a tight leash.

Centrists have therefore been nearly completely routed in the GOP throughout the mid 20th century on. Our proud Republican traditions have been forgotten, or the labels have become construed by conservatives and misunderstood by the public and even by some centrists themselves. Centrist republicanism has become labeled as a spineless idea that only seeks to find compromise instead of standing for principles. A good argument, except that our history has shown that principles that this party once stood for were best carried out by the moderate and liberal factions of the Republican Party.

So, I was mistaken. Part Four of this series was NOT the last chapter in Martin Rybicki’s essays and it’s probably not the penultimate essay, either. So, here is Part Five of “The Real Republicans.” You can read parts one through four at the Progressive Republican.

Our stands and principles are not the same as the hard-line conservatives, and this is something that must be realized and accepted by the centrists, many of whom are trying to come up with ways to moderate but still not abandon staunch conservative principles. The desire by the far-right is obvious in keeping conservatism the party platform and either being ignorant or purposely ignoring the fact of this party having a strong non-conservative tradition of progress. Unfortunately, many moderates work of this assumption of the GOP being the conservative party without thinking outside the box and looking at the party through another light. One that is backed, extensively as my previous posts have shown, by history itself.

But this is still a relatively new century and a new era in politics and sometimes former winners can become losers, and the new will replace the old. Our philosophy and reasoning to stay Republican and why there definitely is room for another party that believes in active government, albeit with working alternatives to the Democrats, must be put forth. A collective thinking of those of us that are left and those that are interested in the retaking of our party must now be done if we are to capitalize on the defeat and banishment to the political wilderness of the fusion conservatives and their hold on the party. As I am doing, and I hope many others are as well, first an in-depth look at who we were and what we stood for and how it came to be. Historical retrospect is important at not only learning to develop a viable 21st century republican centrism, but also to, as this specific paper has done, see what happened in the last 50 years and how mistakes were made by us and what the opposition did to succeed. History must be poured over in detail if we are to develop an understanding and a plan for the future of our movement. So that we may gain knowledge to maybe, bring back the echo of Lincoln into his and our Republican Party.

  • DLS
    Dennis,

    Extremism by Republicans and by the Right is subject to routine hyperbole and is hypocritical given the much more widespread and frequent extremism on the Left, with which the Democratic Party has and will continue to flirt with. Even if you object to the excesses (to use a more broad term) of the Dems and of the lib Dems in particular, that does not confer a right to demand that the GOP, which is at times too liberal and forgiving of, if not enamored itself with, Big Government, to name one of its worst defects, likely the objective many so-called "moderates" want first and foremost from the GOP, particularly in Washington. As I've said before, what most of us non-liberals (for many of us are not truly conservative, or at least not heavily authoritarian-conservative or intrusive-social-conservative) do _not_ want for the GOP is for it to be a "me-too" but watered-down, or as I call it, a comic-book version of the Democratic Party, characterized by the RINOS or by the liberal Northeastern Republicans (who, as overdue Arlen Specter did recently, should all switch to the Democratic Party), a Nicer Kind of Republican Party that is simply the skeletal Democratic Party (never questioning the sacrosanctity of centralization of power in Washington and having the federal government continue to encroach into state and local affairs, and into individuals' lives as well as throttling the business community if not subjecting it to command and control) without the icky excess and interest-group infighting that the Dems exhibit and for which they are notorious. The GOP needs to return to traditionalist libertarian roots, toward minimization of the federal government and once more constraining it within Constitutional and common-sense bounds, and doing better for less what little it really is authorized and sought to do. Along with minimization the federal government (and state and local governments) along with the GOP needs a change from active promotion or opposition of this or that, to strict neutrality, favoring or disfavoring nothing. (It's not so much amoral as it is once more, minimalist.) Any new power or activity by government (especially the federal government) by default should be avoided unless it is seen as necessary and proper, or essential -- a valid, for once, use of the "precautionary principle" that is abused by environmentalists and business interventionists. (This principle rightfully must be applied to government first, foremost, and most of all.) A sound program for the GOP would entail much retreat and shrinkage by Washington in proper Constitutional deference to and respect for state and local primacy when not otherwise authorized. (Default is _against_ federal action and encroachment among the constitutionally honest and honorable.) This of course would entail a great downsizing and reorganization of the federal government, greatly reducing the scope of its reach and activities, as well as its size (and federal pay and benefits adjusted for reality and propriety, namely, reduced).

    Now for the real challenge: This has to be done in an attractive as well as positive (if not necessarily active, or activist) manner, which is the party's supreme challenge given so many decades of not only centralization of power in Washington, but public acceptance of it and public conditioning to cradle-to-grave entitlements (the real shift toward a European model, not limited strictly to democratic socialism) and a changed culture that leads them to be not only dependent on these entitlements but expecting them and frequently motivated to demand and expect ever more, paid magically by "society" or merely by others.

    This is not what you want, though. The true neo-cons (the term has multiple meanings), in the broadest meaning, are people happy with Big Government, as long as it, say, promotes economic growth (rather than merely stop inhibiting or even trying to prevent or reverse it) or other goals favored over Democratic goals. Your closest kin, are in fact the neo-conservatives (loathed by the paleo-conservatives), even if that term has been changed in contemporary times to refer to the group in favor of "benevolent global hegemony" ("muscular Judeo-Christianity," even inheritance of a modern kind of British Empire). (The broader term, the group to whom you relate, are called not only RINOs but also today's Rockefeller Republicans. Do you really want a Republican Party that is perfectly at home with liberal New York or California "Massachusetts Lite" fiscal-and-conduct-wrecking politics?)

    It's obvious that many liberals are disenchanted with the Democratic Party (as well as the inheritance of the legacy of Sixties radicalism, that included former radicals becoming elected to office in Washington, most notably -- Patrick Moynihan, for example, was among those liberals already disenchanted with the way liberalism became radicalized before the end of the 1960s), and for whatever reasons would rather be Republicans than reform the Democratic Party. (It's odd to ask why, given that radicalism and Green Party extremism faced a pushback within the "Third Way" Democratic Party after the 1994 elections, which were a great public revulsion and rejection of Washington's leftist excesses at that time, primarily but not exclusively associated with the conceit and alienation experienced during the health care fiasco).

    All the foregoing being said, can you tell us when you have completed your final installment of your writeup and if it's possible, direct us to where the entire writeup may be accessed?

    In the meantime, I look forward to your next installment, Mr. Peer of Specter, Snowe, and Collins.
  • Social conservatives have run the party into the ground. The No Compromise, Pro-Life or Pro-Go-F-Yourself policy platform of modern Republicans leaves no room for growth outside of the American Church. Fiscal conservatism, the only reason remaining to support non-Democrat candidates - with which I cast my primary support until the 2004 elections - died at the hands of Bush II and the 107th Congress through today.

    However.. in truth these people aren't the real problem. The people who present us with trouble are those who are simply incapable of self-analysis and change. It's no doubt more comforting to mention Democrats and Liberals in every third sentence when responding to critiques such as this than take a long, honest look at your own mentalities. Deflect, avoid, attack, anything but acknowledge. It's a poisonous habit both parties engage in, but Dems don't need to drop it right now - Reps do.

    As long as the initial reply to calls for moderation are "It's all the Democrats' fault though!" there will be no change and people like me will be forced to continue picking through Wiki biographies for candidates who don't subvert the interests of the people to the interests of invisible men in the sky.
  • superdestroyer
    Ethos,

    The progressive/liberal Repubicans are who ran the party into the ground. After eight years of big government, big spending, nanny state control of the Repulbicans by the compassionate conservates, many someone should admit that the U.S. does not really need two big government parties. When progressive Republicans hold up failures such as Gerald Ford or Bush 1, they demonstrate their desire to be in charge of a massive government that controls every aspect of people's lives.

    Progressive Republicans are too stupid to understand that supporting open borders and unlimited immigration means they support high taxes, big government, and a nanny state.

    Instead of writing some form of revisionist history that makes themselves look good, many progressives Repulicans should try writing an essay on their philosophy of government. But that would be impossible because they have to philosophy to base their policies on. Progressive Republicans can be defined vy whatever Democrats tell them to do and they do it because they think it is what the popular kids want.
  • Ryan
    super, there aren't any liberal Republicans left. You'll have to find another scapegoat, sorry.
  • See what I mean? It's all about blaming other people while continuing to consolidate the extreme, partisan elements within the conservative base. Examining their own contribution to the Republican downfall isn't in the cards, and that's why the party as a whole (what's left of it) is doomed. No Compromise means just that. Time for a new party to take over, or at least I can hope. Unfortunately there's still far too much money locked up in the Republican camp.
  • superdestroyer
    Ryan,

    The compassionate conseratives are what pass for progressive Republicans these days. Every problem must be meet with a government problem, everyone should be given goodies from the government and no thought should be given to the long term consequences of policies. The so-called progressives Republicans also known as RINO suffered from having to philosophy of governance, no vision for the future, and to desire to develop knew ideas. They appear to just want to go along with what the cool kids over in the Democratic party are doing.
  • superdestroyer
    Ethos,

    Why should fiscal conservatives take part of the blame. Did the Republicans cut spending when given the chance? NO. Did the Republicans reduce the size of government when given the chance? NO. Did the Republicans develop ways for the government to be more efficient? No. Did the Republicans do the staff work to develop policies for shrinking the government and lower the tax bill? No.

    So why should the fiscal conservatives feel that they are to blame for the failures of the big spending, big government, nanny state Republicans? What should the libertarians be blamed for the failures of a party that filled the budget with pork and new entitlements?

    What is worse is that the so called progressive Republicans want to take the failures of the Bush Administration and try to turn them into features of some form of Democratic-lite, me-to, big government party.

    After the election of 2008, one would think that there is no room for two big government, big spending, nanny state governments. If people want big government they will always vote for the Democratic Party instead of some me-too water downed Republican version.
  • My point is the fiscal conservatives aren't to blame - except in how they don't do anything to stop the social conservatives from taking over the show, and I suppose an argument could be made that complicity hardly makes them bystanders in all of this.

    The question seems hypothetical (and not least of all confusing since my post specifically exonerate fiscal conservatives on both sides of the aisle) since it doesn't seem there are more than a handful around these days.
  • The problems with the Republican and Democratic parties are not that they are too extremist (though I concede that each party does have its share of extremists)...it's that they no longer stand for anything. Much of the extremism we see in the two major parties isn't ideological in nature; it's partisan. More often than not, people whom we would call extremists are not acting based upon a rigid adherence to some political ideology, but rather, they are lashing out at the other party with critiques that show that they hypocrites who have one set of standards for themselves and another set of standards for their political opponents.

    Republicans defending Bush's Wilsonian policy of nation-building when they had criticized such policies when implemented by Clinton.

    Democrats criticizing the Bush administration for rushing us into war with Iraq and then rewarding such belicose Democrats as Hillary Clinton and Joseph Biden who supported the war with Iraq.

    Republicans criticizing Obama for his spending binge even as they sat silent while Bush increased federal spending faster than any president since Lyndon Johnson.

    Democrats being for "choice" on lifestyle issues such as abortion even as they insist upon taxpayers subsidizing numerous government programs that many people do not agree with.

    Republicans who claim to believe in capitalism and free markets even as they favor embargoes against Cuba and continuing to subsidize the War on Drugs both at home and abroad.

    Democrats criticizing the Bush Administration for the continued war in Iraq even as they gave a free pass to Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, who, even with majorities in both Houses, didn't have the courage to cut off funding for the war and further politicized war supplemental bills by filling them with pork barrel spending.

    We continue to talk about--even in this comment thread--the Republicans and Democrats as being the "conservative" and "liberal" parties. Yet everyone here ought to know better--that it has been a long time since the terms "conservative" or "liberal" meant anything. To Republicans "conservative" means anything they want it to mean, even if it means embracing big government policies in terms of moral issues and foreign policy, and to Democrats, "conservative" means anything they want it too mean, so long as it conveys the idea that Republicans are stupid, racist, or hate poor people. To Democrats, "liberal" means anything they want it to mean, even if it means trashing civil liberties under the guise of campus speech codes and gun control, and to Republicans, "liberal" means anything they want it to mean, so long as it conveys the idea that Democrats are stupid, immoral, or hate their country.

    The Republican and Democratic parties have no fundamental core belief save one--power. They can claim to be standing upon for "conservatism" or "liberalism" or "constitutionalism" or "progressivism" all they want, but the reality is that they will continued to pander to people's basest instincts. They do this because the two-party system makes it inevitable. So called "conservatives" and "liberals" each make up less than 50% of the voting population (and principled conservatives and liberals make up far less than that), so since it takes 50% + 1 votes to win an election, Republicans and Democrats will continue to pander to anyone and everyone, trying to make it seem as if they represent the beliefs of the majority of the country, even when those beliefs are contradictory.

    The "big tent" mentality is inevitable, and I would not argue that the two parties should remain closed minded or should avoid builing coalitions among those they disagree. However, I think rather than the two parties opening their doors to all comers: conservatives, progressives, moderates, neoconservative, libertarians, and communitarians, they ought to come up with a core set of beliefs that they believe in. I believe the American people would have more sympathy for some of the more controversial positions of the Republican and Democratic parties if there were some intellectual consistency behind those positions.

    But until that happens, all this fingerpointing as to which party has more extremists or hypocrites is a futile exercise.
  • Well said Nicrivera. I agree fully except that both Dems and Reps do have principles - on paper - they just fail to apply them because as you mentioned the objective is getting and maintaining power rather than representing the citizenry. The two methods are not mutually exclusive - gaining power *by* representing your constituents is how the process works - but power consolidation means ever-smaller interest groups can offer ever-larger voting blocks, so that process has broken down.

    Honestly I don't know another way to fix it other than placing people who are actually principled into office... men and women of that caliber are not only rare, but rarely seek public office.
  • vwcat
    While I am a democrat, I enjoyed this article alot. I sincerely wish the old line republicans would come back and rise up and take over their party from the conservatives - especially the hard core, extreme right.
    Along with the moderates, the party has lost it's adult and smart wing as well. It would be wonderful to have a republican party like it use to be with the values and ideas of, and an appreciation for, Lincoln, TR and Eisenhower.
    The republican party needs desperately to dump, which is most of the party now, the dixiecrats.
  • superdestroyer
    VWcat,

    The old line Republicans have zero credibility. They do not believe in anything. They seem to delight in stabbing fellow Republicans in the back.. They will do whatever the liberal Democrats demand of them.

    If the old line Republicans want to make a comeback they need to define themselves with a sensibile governing philosophy that is more than doing whateer Democrats want them to do. If the old line Republicans are really for smaller government, then they need to demonstrate it by proposing real cuts, by limiting immigration, and by putting an end to the racial spoils system that the government operates.

    However, there is not one conservative issue that the old line Repubicans believe in. They will spend like drunken sailors, they will increase taxes at the drop of a hat, they will expand entitlements, government mandates, and spending with zero thought about the future.

    The problem with the old line Republicans around today is that they are indistinguishable from the current Democratic Party and why does the U.S. need two big government, big spending, nanny state parties?
  • gadfly
    Serious question -- even if more pragmatic brands of conservatism were to dominate the Republican Party, would the anti-conservative/anti-Republican forces that control the narrative in the Democratic Party, the media, and the blogosphere ever admit it?

    Wouldn't it be much more politically convenient for them to simply ignore or misrepresent the more pragmatic elements of the Republican Party and thus continue to delegitimize their only potential opposition and insulate themselves from any potential criticism?

    And isn't that pretty much what they are already doing by taking every opportunity to highlight Republican extremism and somehow missing every opportunity to either highlight the same methods among Democrats or the existence of exceptions among Republicans?
  • gadfly
    "libertarians, the theocrats and warmongering neo-cons"

    Nice to see that skepticism to anti-conservative stereotypes and name-callings is maintained at the "internet hub for moderates, centrists, and independents".

    Not.
  • casualobserver
    @@Ryan 20 hours ago super, there aren't any liberal Republicans left. You'll have to find another scapegoat, sorry.@@
    That's arguably true if you apply only today's definition of what is a liberal, but this TMV group tends to only see the world in two groups, liberals/Democrats and religious right type conservatives.

    Gallup says differently


    @@Take a glance at Gallup Organization surveys. In 2007, self-identified Republicans were about 28 percent of the mass electorate, self-identified Democrats were about 32 percent, and self-identified independents were about 39 percent. Fifty-five percent of Republicans self-identified as "conservative," 26 percent as "moderate," and 13 percent as "very conservative."

    Now, do the simple math. "Very conservative" Republicans are only about 3.6 percent--28 percent times 13 percent--of the mass electorate. If that just seems too low, consult the American National Election Studies (ANES) and add the 12 percent of independents who lean Republican to the 12 percent who are self-described "weak Republicans" and the 16 percent who are self-described "strong Republicans." This sums to 40 percent of the mass electorate. But that still means just 5.2 percent of all voters (40 percent times 13 percent) qualify as "very conservative" Republicans.@@

    This TMV group also continuously ignores the month of September, 2008. Which candidate led the polls prior to the Lehman bankruptcy? Obama/Biden? Wrong. The economic crash, the mismanagement of Iraq and the 240 year bias against 3 successive terms of one party hold gave us the result in November.

    We Goldwater Republicans have simply tired of trying to return this country as a whole to the virtues of hard-work, self-sufficiency and not clinging to others to get things done. We have become masters of moving our lives forward outside of the political system. The last thing we are going to do is run for some political office.

    Liberal Dems should enjoy their 15 minutes of fame.......they've not solved any real problems thus far and the path ahead doesn't look like there is going to be any slam dunks on healthcare, world peace or economic prosperity. The pendulum already shows signs of swinging back in the offyear elections.
  • superdestroyer
    casualobserver,

    All the Democrats have to do is convince more than 50% of the people that there is a free lunch to be had. It does not matter whether they succeed on heathcare, world peace, or economic prosperity. All they have to do is ensure that most people become dependent on the government so that they will automatically vote for the Democratic Party.
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