Comments on: A Time To Play, A Time To Shut Up http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Wed, 30 May 2012 15:25:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Mecah24 http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189262 Mecah24 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:55:57 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189262 Are you kidding me? Are you really comparing running red lights, paying your taxes and challenging your drill instructor to inflatable volleyballs at a High School graduation? <br><br>Here is a piece of advice for the graduating class of 2009. The lessons learned in High School are pretty much a waste of time. Do you want success? Do you want wealth? Then dont tie yourself down to the vain rituals of memorization. Think outside the box, find something you love to do and do it. Dont let the "Educated" chain and fetter you with their lame rules and regulations. <br><br>I'm actually quite suprised that formal education hasnt completed choked out the young and curious mind altogether. Are you kidding me? Are you really comparing running red lights, paying your taxes and challenging your drill instructor to inflatable volleyballs at a High School graduation?

Here is a piece of advice for the graduating class of 2009. The lessons learned in High School are pretty much a waste of time. Do you want success? Do you want wealth? Then dont tie yourself down to the vain rituals of memorization. Think outside the box, find something you love to do and do it. Dont let the “Educated” chain and fetter you with their lame rules and regulations.

I'm actually quite suprised that formal education hasnt completed choked out the young and curious mind altogether.

]]> By: TomGentry http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189254 TomGentry Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:43:07 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189254 What a joke. Another over-paid, under-qualified school "superintendent". Her prison mentality is old school. Fire her ass. What a joke. Another over-paid, under-qualified school “superintendent”. Her prison mentality is old school. Fire her ass.

]]> By: Floretta http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189231 Floretta Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:11:52 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189231 Seems likek SHE's the one who turned it into chaos. Seems likek SHE's the one who turned it into chaos.

]]> By: Gulfvet91 http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189202 Gulfvet91 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:30:49 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189202 Graduations are supposed to be about celebration of a milestone. They are about the kids who are there to celebrate. Only the adults, looking back on the event as lost part of their youth, see the ceremony as something somber. The somber realization doesn't hit the kids until after the ceremony. I think a lot of adults need a refresher on the Constitution and its guarantee of Freedom of Speech, which is often interpreted as Freedom of Expression. By denying Justin his diploma for a Consitutionally protected free expression, MS Lukas violated his civil rights, not to mention the decorum of the ceremony. As an Air Force NCO, I learned one huge lesson during my twenty years of service. Always praise in public and punish in private. In the midst of a ceremony is no place to be disciplining students. Graduations are supposed to be about celebration of a milestone. They are about the kids who are there to celebrate. Only the adults, looking back on the event as lost part of their youth, see the ceremony as something somber. The somber realization doesn't hit the kids until after the ceremony. I think a lot of adults need a refresher on the Constitution and its guarantee of Freedom of Speech, which is often interpreted as Freedom of Expression. By denying Justin his diploma for a Consitutionally protected free expression, MS Lukas violated his civil rights, not to mention the decorum of the ceremony. As an Air Force NCO, I learned one huge lesson during my twenty years of service. Always praise in public and punish in private. In the midst of a ceremony is no place to be disciplining students.

]]> By: jonwash http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189133 jonwash Thu, 18 Jun 2009 02:56:17 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189133 Patrick wrote:<br>"Jon: You're still arguing "law and order" with the logical fallacy of the "slippery slope.""<br><br>Not really...but I am not sure what more I can say that would dissuade you of that notion. <br><br>In the end, the people of this town will have to resolve this specific issue with the all the facts that most of us do not have. It is an interesting exercise in the abstract to see how some find this an example of excess use of authority and some see it as the rules are the rules. As with most things in life the devil is in the details! Patrick wrote:
“Jon: You're still arguing “law and order” with the logical fallacy of the “slippery slope.”"

Not really…but I am not sure what more I can say that would dissuade you of that notion.

In the end, the people of this town will have to resolve this specific issue with the all the facts that most of us do not have. It is an interesting exercise in the abstract to see how some find this an example of excess use of authority and some see it as the rules are the rules. As with most things in life the devil is in the details!

]]> By: jonwash http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189132 jonwash Thu, 18 Jun 2009 02:41:07 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189132 "The central issue is that there was a set of rules in place that night and school officials were not enforcing them consistently. Ms. Lukas was reprimanding students who were not in clear violation of the code, and not reprimanding the people who were in violation."<br><br>You are right. This is part of the story was not in anything that I read. If this is the case then I can see why so many are not happy with Ms Lukas. Because as much as I have been advocating that the rules should be followed that is completely negated if those rules are not applied consistently. One of the reasons I stopped watching the NBA is because enforcement of the rules is very selective! <br><br>I hope the parents and students will be able to get past this event and celebrate their achievements! “The central issue is that there was a set of rules in place that night and school officials were not enforcing them consistently. Ms. Lukas was reprimanding students who were not in clear violation of the code, and not reprimanding the people who were in violation.”

You are right. This is part of the story was not in anything that I read. If this is the case then I can see why so many are not happy with Ms Lukas. Because as much as I have been advocating that the rules should be followed that is completely negated if those rules are not applied consistently. One of the reasons I stopped watching the NBA is because enforcement of the rules is very selective!

I hope the parents and students will be able to get past this event and celebrate their achievements!

]]> By: Mainegirly http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189127 Mainegirly Thu, 18 Jun 2009 02:28:07 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189127 I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the main problem with this incident. I suspect its partially due to the way this story has been framed in the media. <br><br>The issue is not about kids getting away with murder and not being held responsible, nor is it about cracking down on mean old school marm's like Ms. Lukas for ruining our fun. The central issue is that there was a set of rules in place that night and school officials were not enforcing them consistently. Ms. Lukas was reprimanding students who were not in clear violation of the code, and not reprimanding the people who were in violation. <br><br>Justin Denny and Andrew (the kid who was applauded for joining the military) were NOT the two responsible for the disruption,yet they were disrespected and made examples of by this woman. <br><br>The School Board keeps referring to the "code of conduct" the kids signed in order to participate in graduation. However school officials have made no rhyme nor reason as to how punishment was handed out that night. I look forward to asking them these questions next week at the big meeting. <br><br>On a side note - I sat there in the 8th row wondering if Ms. Lukas uses these intimidation tactics on our 1st graders too. I know I would be scared of her :) She reminds me of the high school principal from "Uncle Buck". **eeek** I think a lot of people are misunderstanding the main problem with this incident. I suspect its partially due to the way this story has been framed in the media.

The issue is not about kids getting away with murder and not being held responsible, nor is it about cracking down on mean old school marm's like Ms. Lukas for ruining our fun. The central issue is that there was a set of rules in place that night and school officials were not enforcing them consistently. Ms. Lukas was reprimanding students who were not in clear violation of the code, and not reprimanding the people who were in violation.

Justin Denny and Andrew (the kid who was applauded for joining the military) were NOT the two responsible for the disruption,yet they were disrespected and made examples of by this woman.

The School Board keeps referring to the “code of conduct” the kids signed in order to participate in graduation. However school officials have made no rhyme nor reason as to how punishment was handed out that night. I look forward to asking them these questions next week at the big meeting.

On a side note – I sat there in the 8th row wondering if Ms. Lukas uses these intimidation tactics on our 1st graders too. I know I would be scared of her :) She reminds me of the high school principal from “Uncle Buck”. **eeek**

]]> By: jonwash http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189118 jonwash Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:22:26 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189118 "Some people it seems think authority... even misguided authority is absolute and can do no wrong. And some of us don't."<br><br>I would not say it is absolute....but there is authority....I asked those of you who seem the blowing of the kiss was ok....tell me what behavior on the stage would you draw the line at? And if you say you will draw the line at X then you are exercising authority...just at a different point. “Some people it seems think authority… even misguided authority is absolute and can do no wrong. And some of us don't.”

I would not say it is absolute….but there is authority….I asked those of you who seem the blowing of the kiss was ok….tell me what behavior on the stage would you draw the line at? And if you say you will draw the line at X then you are exercising authority…just at a different point.

]]> By: jonwash http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189117 jonwash Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:20:27 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189117 Warning....mmmm how would that work...."Johnny don't do that again or......" what? Warning….mmmm how would that work….”Johnny don't do that again or……” what?

]]> By: jonwash http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189116 jonwash Thu, 18 Jun 2009 01:19:36 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189116 I think I might have missed something....did the student receive their diplomas at a later time or not at all? I think I might have missed something….did the student receive their diplomas at a later time or not at all?

]]> By: thatEmmagirl http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189104 thatEmmagirl Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:28:27 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189104 jonwash:<br>I think I sit in the chair of the student's point of view- I've worked for thirteen years as hard as I can to get here, my family has come out to support me. I blow a kiss to my mom as a thank you- and my graduation gets taken away. That just doesn't seem logical-at all. Maybe a warning, or a reminder, but your diploma? Over the top. jonwash:
I think I sit in the chair of the student's point of view- I've worked for thirteen years as hard as I can to get here, my family has come out to support me. I blow a kiss to my mom as a thank you- and my graduation gets taken away. That just doesn't seem logical-at all. Maybe a warning, or a reminder, but your diploma? Over the top.

]]> By: SteveK http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189098 SteveK Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:33:23 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189098 olivec, Thank you for posting the video.<br><br>Some people it seems think authority... even misguided authority is absolute and can do no wrong. And some of us don't. olivec, Thank you for posting the video.

Some people it seems think authority… even misguided authority is absolute and can do no wrong. And some of us don't.

]]> By: jonwash http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189095 jonwash Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:05:31 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189095 I am beginning to understand where you stand on this issue is where you sit. I sit in the chair of the parent that did not want to see my childs 13 years of hard work potentially devolve into a one ups-man event of junvinile proportions.....some of you sit in the chair of they are just kids and kids are made to have fun. One is not more right than the other I guess but how you see this issue really depends on where you sit. I side with the notion that if I know what the rules are and I choose to participate then I should follow the rules or get the rules changed. I am beginning to understand where you stand on this issue is where you sit. I sit in the chair of the parent that did not want to see my childs 13 years of hard work potentially devolve into a one ups-man event of junvinile proportions…..some of you sit in the chair of they are just kids and kids are made to have fun. One is not more right than the other I guess but how you see this issue really depends on where you sit. I side with the notion that if I know what the rules are and I choose to participate then I should follow the rules or get the rules changed.

]]> By: olivec http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189094 olivec Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:00:25 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189094 Here is the video of what he was denied for<br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQuLzTGvCOY&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQuLzTGvCOY&hl=e...</a><br><br>Tell me another story. Here is the video of what he was denied for
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQuLzTGvCOY&hl=e…

Tell me another story.

]]> By: jonwash http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189093 jonwash Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:00:11 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189093 "Because, since when is blowing a kiss to your mother inapropriate?"<br><br>If the code of conduct says there will be no public displays as your are walking across the stage, that would violate the rule. It might be a silly rule but if that is what those in charge deemed appropriate and they are not challenged before hand then it is not OK to just disregard it and then complain when you are called on it. “Because, since when is blowing a kiss to your mother inapropriate?”

If the code of conduct says there will be no public displays as your are walking across the stage, that would violate the rule. It might be a silly rule but if that is what those in charge deemed appropriate and they are not challenged before hand then it is not OK to just disregard it and then complain when you are called on it.

]]> By: HaaHaaHaa http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189083 HaaHaaHaa Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:08:58 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189083 This is what happens when the wrong people have power over people who have none. Something needs to be done about this. A resignation would be a small step forward in this matter. I would also like to see protests and endless bashing of the school board untill this matter is resolved. A celebration ceremony is supposed to be an exciting and memorable event.....what did you want it to be remembered for?? That breaking or bending the slightest of RULES is DIRE!?! Your JOB as educators is to teach and live by example....not to undermind, win at any cost, or humiliate the children you ALL claim to be there for....GROW UP!!! Kids will have fun...and nobody was hurt. <br><br>Note to all kids in school:<br>Don't ever break the rules.......because 13 years of hard work does not out-weigh one mistake.<br><br>These kids weren't speeding or running a red light...they were celebrating....*&^% off you commies!! This is what happens when the wrong people have power over people who have none. Something needs to be done about this. A resignation would be a small step forward in this matter. I would also like to see protests and endless bashing of the school board untill this matter is resolved. A celebration ceremony is supposed to be an exciting and memorable event…..what did you want it to be remembered for?? That breaking or bending the slightest of RULES is DIRE!?! Your JOB as educators is to teach and live by example….not to undermind, win at any cost, or humiliate the children you ALL claim to be there for….GROW UP!!! Kids will have fun…and nobody was hurt.

Note to all kids in school:
Don't ever break the rules…….because 13 years of hard work does not out-weigh one mistake.

These kids weren't speeding or running a red light…they were celebrating….*&^% off you commies!!

]]> By: thatEmmagirl http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189077 thatEmmagirl Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:45:33 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189077 OK, am I missing something? Because, since when is blowing a kiss to your mother inapropriate? Of course you have to follow rules, but all the examples you people are giving have NOTHING TO DO with blowing a kiss at graduation. Mrs. Lucas should seriously reconsider her behavior and actions. Because she is retaining their diploma without cause!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OK, am I missing something? Because, since when is blowing a kiss to your mother inapropriate? Of course you have to follow rules, but all the examples you people are giving have NOTHING TO DO with blowing a kiss at graduation. Mrs. Lucas should seriously reconsider her behavior and actions. Because she is retaining their diploma without cause!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

]]> By: mesayme http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189076 mesayme Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:43:34 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189076 jonwash<br>One indicator is the actual decibel level of the crowds disapproval. Another indicator is I who almost never send e-mails to interfere with school business sent one to every administrator. It's the talk at the check out lines. Its discussed at the Babe Ruth games in the stands. My wife tried calling in and they had shut the phone systems down as they were so flooded with calls that they were actually disrupting the classes. I was told by my wife that for every 4 complaints they had they had one person sticking up for the superintendent. I'm not sure where she got that information and she is not available to ask at the moment.<br>The public is outraged and there is no doubt about it. That is why I think the superintendent would be wise to diffuse this situation. How else would this incident make national news if people were not out raged. jonwash
One indicator is the actual decibel level of the crowds disapproval. Another indicator is I who almost never send e-mails to interfere with school business sent one to every administrator. It's the talk at the check out lines. Its discussed at the Babe Ruth games in the stands. My wife tried calling in and they had shut the phone systems down as they were so flooded with calls that they were actually disrupting the classes. I was told by my wife that for every 4 complaints they had they had one person sticking up for the superintendent. I'm not sure where she got that information and she is not available to ask at the moment.
The public is outraged and there is no doubt about it. That is why I think the superintendent would be wise to diffuse this situation. How else would this incident make national news if people were not out raged.

]]> By: 2kidsn2dogs http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189074 2kidsn2dogs Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:38:39 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189074 These students are no longer children. They are on the verge of adulthood and preparing to embark on the journey of life. Therefore, they need to know how to conduct themselves appropriately in a wide variety of settings. Throughout life, there are solemn occasions as well as times for fun. I really don't think it would have killed any of them to sit quietly and respectfully through the ceremony and postpone their fun until the graduation parties later that evening. Then there would have been no story and no controversy! These students are no longer children. They are on the verge of adulthood and preparing to embark on the journey of life. Therefore, they need to know how to conduct themselves appropriately in a wide variety of settings. Throughout life, there are solemn occasions as well as times for fun. I really don't think it would have killed any of them to sit quietly and respectfully through the ceremony and postpone their fun until the graduation parties later that evening. Then there would have been no story and no controversy!

]]> By: jonwash http://themoderatevoice.com/35799/a-time-to-play-a-time-to-shut-up/comment-page-1/#comment-189070 jonwash Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:28:08 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=35799#comment-189070 " I was in the 8th row and could see everything clearly. Ms. Lukas was very initmidating in her treatment of many graduates and punished students who were NOT in violation of the code of conduct. "<br><br>I can not challenge your take on the mood or demenor of Ms Lukas and I am sure that will be addressed in the hearing before the board. If your assessment is correct ( and I have no reason to doubt it) then corrective action with Ms Lukas might be called for. ” I was in the 8th row and could see everything clearly. Ms. Lukas was very initmidating in her treatment of many graduates and punished students who were NOT in violation of the code of conduct. “

I can not challenge your take on the mood or demenor of Ms Lukas and I am sure that will be addressed in the hearing before the board. If your assessment is correct ( and I have no reason to doubt it) then corrective action with Ms Lukas might be called for.

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