How Do You Solve A Problem Like Immigration ?
It seems like these days all we have are problems that seem to evade a solution. Immigration is probably near the top of the list when it comes to such an issue. I certainly recognize that there are two sides to the debate and that both sides do have some very valid points.
On the one hand there are many problems associated with illegal immigration, not the least of which is the impact it has on state and federal budgets. Obviously there are a number of factors to account for the current crisis in California ranging from the slow economy reducing revenues to the inability to control spending for political reasons.
On the left you have powerful unions that force the government to accept very costly contracts while on the right you have efforts to increase criminal penalties so much that the jails become overcrowded and end up costing society far more than the incarcerations benefit society.
But the fact remains that as a general rule illegals (or if you prefer undocumenteds) tend to cost society a great deal when they utilize government services. They are more likely to go to public facilities for medical aid, they send their children to public schools and so on. While they do contribute to society they often do not contribute to the tax coffers because they are paid under the table.
So obviously this is a problem that needs to be solved.
At the same time, there is no clear or easy way to solve the problem. While I do not think things are quite as serious as some activists would suggest, it is true that this segment of society does do jobs that many people would not want to perform and for wages many people are not willing to accept.
If we eliminate them from the underground job market and bring them into the regular workplace it is likely labor costs would increase, thus increasing the cost of the products (often food). Herein lies one of the broader problems of society, the need to balance paying people a good wage with the true value of their work, but that is a subject for another post.
Even if you move past the issue of the jobs these people perform, then the question becomes just what you would do next. In theory you would want to send them back, but how do you go about finding them all ? And what happens when they have children who are citizens, where do they go ?
Looking at the situation my personal inclination is to adopt a balanced solution. Probably the first step is for all sides to accept that it is a problem that needs to be solved and that doing so is not evil, racist, etc but rather a need to work out a problem that must be resolved. I am not sure that this is possible, and it may well be that this will prevent us from ever finding a real solution, but one can hope that the right ideas would help this step
The next step would be to develop a balanced solution to satisfy both sides. The hard liners who want all illegals sent out of the country are simply going to have to accept that this is not going to happen. People are here and in many cases have been here for decades. They have children, homes, jobs, etc and we just can’t toss them all out.
On the other hand the hard core activists who basically want an open border policy are not going to get all they want either. We cannot simply let everyone stay or allow anybody who wants to come to do so. Immigrants did build this nation and they will continue to be an important part of our nation, but we just can’t afford to let everyone from everywhere come in. So this is something they need to accept.
Assuming we manage to get both sides to agree to these principles then we need to develop a way for deciding who gets to stay and who does not. This is probably the hardest part because no matter how careful you are to try and make it fair, there are always going to be some cases where things are unfair.
Clearly there is no simple solution to the problem, but we are a pretty decent cross section of society here at TMV so perhaps we can have a discussion of the options.
What do you all say ?
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11 Responses to “How Do You Solve A Problem Like Immigration ?”
I think George W Bush may have solved that problem for us. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124424701106590613.html
SuperDestroyer is going to be thrilled to ear this…
On a slightly less snarky note, if immigration is a real problem (and I think it is), the only solution is to raise the standard of living in the countries immediately bordering the US. My guess is that if the standard of living in Latin America was the same as that of Spain or Portugal (a GDP of ~ 20K per Capita) with a normal political system that did not involve right wing death squads, and leftist guerrillas, there would be little to no immigration into the US.
But I thought that all illegals immigrants were just Hispanics. Mr. Wadhwa was a great gardener…
Xerox may hire H1Bs and probably does, but I seriously doubt that they hire illegals. Now they may very well hire subcontractors who in turn hire illegals.
Now H1Bs may be legal, but they are no better for our culture than illegal immigrants are. Why would anyone bother to put themselves in debt up to their eyeballs to get an engineering degree when they know that their future employers are going to bring in foreigners with similar levels of education to work at substantially lower wages than they need to maintain a middle class lifestyle and repay their educational debt?
It isn't as much about debt as return on investment and just plain hard work. Except for advanced math degrees from the likes of this(here), most MBA's are math brain dead. Advanced calculus, quantum physics and electronic principles don't pay like a Penn or u of C MBA…
“If we eliminate them from the underground job market and bring them into the regular workplace it is likely labor costs would increase, thus increasing the cost of the products (often food). Herein lies one of the broader problems of society, the need to balance paying people a good wage with the true value of their work, but that is a subject for another post.”
The above “common wisdom” that some jobs won't be done by Americans because they are distasteful or that they pay too low a wage belies economic theory. For example, Employers in fields like construction regularly hire undocumented roofing gangs who do the work but get paid 50% less simply because that kind of money far out paces what they can make in their own country. If you think that these employers “pass the savings on,” you're crazy.
The simplest way to address the high number of illegals is to enforce employer verification laws and put teeth behind enforcement. I don't begrudge anyone trying to do well by his family by coming to the US, but businesses regularly underpay these people and merely pocket the difference and call it good business. Remove the illegal hiring, you remove the illegal workers. It's the only logical first step.
NO question that E-Verify should be in-perpetuity, as it's being modified and updated according to the information I have read from Homeland Security. Of course their is a lot of consternation about it's operation, mainly because the businesses that are not using it yet have been brain washed by US. Chamber of Commerce, ACLU and other organizations, who have suspicious reasons for their rhetoric. Then again much of it is consistent lies and propaganda, to attempt to destroy the illegal immigrant worker–ATTRITION–E-Verify computer application. The public should remember where the US Chamber of Commerce and the ACLU get their working capitol from? The free traders and all businesses that enjoy the movement of cheap labor, that cuts into their profits. These are parasites not only prey on the illegal impoverished nationals, but the American taxpayer as well. Mandated taxes–FORCED–on all of us, because over the years we have no enforcement at our borders.
We the American people have been left in the dark, happy and ignorant, while our borders have remained methodically unsealed. Many of our lawmakers have been corrupted by Campaign contributions, gifts and large sums of money hidden in brown paper bags. Our country continues to bleed by massive remittances sent out the country by illegal labor. That through many administrations we continue to hemorrhaging from paying all illegal family costs. Hundreds of billions of dollars are hidden in government appropriations, exactly like–EARMARKS–so the public are never aware. California–A SANCTUARY STATE–has committed financially suicide since proposition 187 mysteriously disappeared under liberal judges. We are forever paying benefits for illegal aliens, who dodges our undermanned border. Our Immigration law is not broken, it's just the non-enforcement of the 1986 Simpson/Mazzoli bill. The law works–perhaps too good–so now they must remove it and open the gates wide for the next hordes of illegal alien labor.
By taking–OUT–the 1986 law they can spring on us another immigration law that is weaker and allow 20 million or more stay here. All the criminals, all the fraudulent ID users, all the welfare beneficiaries legal or not? Our borders have never been sealed the free traders are against it. So are the radical anti-sovereignty groups like La Raza, who want erode the America we know, by bring in millions more poor from South of the border. For decades tourist over-stayers have never been brought to justice, because the US immigration authorities, were unaware if these people left the country or not? In this administration the politicians who are responsible for compromising immigration enforcement Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) Speaker Pelosi (D-CA) and others, who are now gainfully employed by–TAXPAYERS.
DQ,
Why do you think the Obama Administration is working so hard to entice illegal aliens to stay in the U.S. To the Democratic Party, having millions of poor Mexican illegal aliens is more important that trying to lower the unemployment rate for blue collar workers. That is why Democrats in Congress such as Harry Reid as in such a rush to push through amnesty for illegal aliens. The Democrats want to get it done before too many illegal aliens leave.
Balance the National Budget.
Stop borrowing to fuel the deficit, find alternative energy source this would lessen demand for foreign funds. We can then shut our boarders off and stop flights from the Middle East. We need money and oil from foreign governments until we solve our debt problem we cannot tell them to piss-off.
Forty percent of the population does not pay income tax. Forty-six percent work for the Government State, Federal or Cities. Sixteen percent have the burden of earning enough to pay for the benefits of Federal and State Employees whom earn 45% more than the same workers in private industry. The Government expects these funds to come from $12 per hour jobs the good jobs have been outsourced. Unless people are willing to take on the problem vote these officials out of office there is no way to fix our problems!
Immigration can be handled in several ways. We must mandate the use of E-Verify, to make sure that the illegals will not get jobs. Secondly, cut off ALL welfare benefits to illegals and their anchor babies. This includes food stamps, cash, WIC, housing or any other benefit. Get rid of the anchor baby statute. Healthcare will be in emegency situations only (which does not include births). When the person is stable, they will be released from the hospital to manage their own care. English should become the official language, with all documents and schools teaching in English only. No more matricular cards as ID. All police nationwide would enforce immigration laws and jail those caught for ANY offense and deported. Workplace raids should be reinstituted and expanded. Any businesses found using illegals, the CEO would be sent to prison and the business heavily fined or even closed. Sanctuary cities would be outlawed. If the illegals know they cannot find jobs, mooch government benefits for themselves and their many kids and have a tough life due to their illegal status, they would either self deport or decide not to cross over and break our laws in the first place. It does work, as immigration has been going down with the recession and Bush's raids. Legal immigration will only be granted to educated or skilled individuals who can support themselves upon arrival as they will not receive any welfare benefits of any kind. Strict limits must be set on how many people are allowed entry each year. Asylum only in the most extreme cases, to avoid fraud. Marriages to an illegal will only be considered if the people have been married for 10 years. Cut off everything for illegals and vigorously enforce the immigration laws and they will not want to come here. Seems kinda simple to me.
How we as Americana stop this from happening, I would like to vote on it. People coming here and haveing baby collecting food stamp, If you want to have baby in America have your money and pay for it. People from all over come to have baby, And talk about how they hate America what are they doing here, Ungrateful they're.
Please call and overwhelm the White House switchboards with a “no to amnesty” message today:
Main line 202-456-1414
Leg Affairs: 202-456-2230
You will encounter busy signals. You will also have to follow instructions to get to a recording device or a real person. But please be persistent and be counted.
Make one of these talking points:
I'm calling about the amnesty meeting at the White House today. I oppose giving work permits and citizenship to illegal foreign workers.
When the President meets with Members of Congress about immigration reform today, I hope they talk about suspending most immigration and foreign worker programs during the current jobs depression.
If you want to make a second point, choose from one of these:
14 million Americans are looking for a job and can't find one. Don't stab them in the back by giving work permits to 8 million illegal aliens.
The two top principles of immigration reform should be: (1) take away the job magnet for illegal immigration by making E-Verify mandatory for all employers, and (2) greatly reduce the number of green cards given out each year.
What the country needs more than anything is LESS IMMIGRATION.
——————————————I called yesterday and got through after a few busy signals. Persistance paid off. Please everyone, make those calls. Shut down the White House switchboard just like we shut down the Senate one in 2007.