Just be careful so you don't need to get one then you won't have to worry….

oh yeah, i forgot, these guys think “being careful” busts God's chops too.

I believe bin Laden has rarely ever called specifically for death to person or persons; he makes those great metaphorical statements of God's wrath and grief coming to America. Ultimately, I don't care about that slender legal fig leaf people hide behind. Morally, there's very little difference.

These groups have little or no political power and so they call upon the voice they hear in their head as God's authority. I'm not a church going Christian but I've read the Bible enough to know that humans are entitled to bestow God's love; His wrath is not theirs to wield.

If you're against abortion, don't have one.

Now, let's also be clear. I am talking strictly from a legal culpability viewpoint. From a moralistic point of view those who use incendiary language that remains behind the line legal culpability must be able to sleep with their conscience, but those who do probably don't have a problem with that.

There is a fundamental difference of those who say 'go kill that person(s)' or even 'that person(s) needs to be killed' and saying 'that person(s) is a mass murder' or 'that person(s) has blood on their hands'.

The first two are examples of inciting to violence; the second two are the expression of opinion on the actions of a third person, with no call to violence against that third person.

The problem, however, is that their views of the “truth” allow them to praise the shooter. I just wish to point out how many tsk tsk stories about those evil Muslims who believe they speak for God, and kill in his name also.

I read your position that every person is responsible for his own acts, but no one seems to be responsible for spewing evil rhetoric that leads others to kill. Your position then is that Osama bin Laden is not responsible for anything done in his name, right? (of course not)

I am disgusted by the hate speech, the self righteous authority self bestowed, and the unending pattern of violence in the name of God.

This was a political act by domestic terrorists, and these self-righteous zealots are exactly the same as any sheik or mullah who feeds the heads of the ignorant with the message of death in God's name.

Now, that does not excuse any actions against them, as what they do is fully 100% legal. A personal position that runs counter to the law does not excuse in any fashion taking matters into your own hands. That is vigilantism and anarchy.

And to be clear, I do NOT believe abortion is murder. It makes me uncomfortable, as it should I believe most people, but I believe in choice. But I understand the emotional and intellectual arguments from the other side, even if I don't agree with them.

Pro-life/anti-abortionists have the Constitutional right to express their disgust in the strongest words possible, and pro-choice have the same right to do the same from that side.

Words have meanings; actions have consequences.

When Homeland security issued their reports some weeks back warning of Right wing extremists, it specifically pointed to anti-abortion as one area for concern. I remember the howls of protest from the right. It appears that their warning had merit.

Just saying that words have consequences.

You can continue to try and lay blame at the feet of others, as that seems to be your mindset. I will bet your next step is to suggest banning such speach.

I will continue to say people are responsible for the decisions they make, not the people who may have written materials or said things that may have had some influence.

We obviously agree to disagree on this issue.

But as soon as you try to claim that that kind of language, in the absence of a direct, explicit call for violence, is somehow responsible for the actions of others then I do have to disagree.

Bingo. My original comment wasn't blaming the left for the shooting of the soldier. In both shootings the murderer is the one responsible.

I said this in another of the threads on this topic:

There is no excusing the actions of the man who took Tiller's life.

This argument is ridiculous whether you are talking about teenage lovers committing suicide because of Romeo and Juliet, the Manson clan killings after hearing backward encoded messages in the White Album, the Columbine shootings because of kids playing Doom and listening to Marilyn Manson, etc., or this senseless killing.

The 'Right', nor the 'Left', is NOT responsible when unhinged people to take their guns and kill people, regardless of any rhetoric, unless you can show evidence of a direct call to arms and incitement to violence, such as in the cases like Thomas Metzger and WAR.

But joeaudio — while I'll agree that shouting “Bush is a murderer!” “War Criminals!”, etc. is not the same thing as saying “Kill Soldiers!”, I think there is a commonality between these two crimes / criminals.

What the inflammatory, vivid, angry rhetoric from both sides does is give someone (like Roeder or Muhammad) a sense of support for his radicalized emotions. Rather than feeling marginalized, they know they are part of something 'bigger' than themselves.

However, as I said, the left cannot be bothered will the killing of Pvt. William A. Long because it cannot be used to justify the regulation of political speech, assembly, or organizing.

The contrast here that I'm trying (and apparently failing) to point out is that no American on “The Left” (and I hate these artificially divisive labels: left, right, liberal, conservative) has called for our soldiers to be killed.
This was a lesson learned from the Vietnam era when many people unfortunately blamed the soldiers for the atrocities in that war. I think “The Left” has learned that the soldiers are not the perpetrators of bad policy, but rather, the victims.

In the abortion wars, “The Right” is responsible for the inflammatory rhetoric that causes unhinged people to take their guns and kill people. People need to back off from the violent rhetoric and find common ground in finding ways to deal with the abortion issue.