Comments on: Suspect in Murder of Dr. Tiller Allegedly Member of ‘Operation Rescue’ Forum

By: Logicon

Logicon — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:42:24 +0000

There is no God-fearing, Jesus-loving group of conservatives anywhere that would advocate violence against anyone. Any group that justifies killing someone is not Christian and is not what a Conservative is, by definition.

Christians may not be attacked in the church, but they are attacked otherwise by movies, media, atheists, Muslims, & especially in other countries. If one person is killed by a crazy, it always seems that the crazy is somehow labeled a Christian whether he is or not. It is amazing that there have been many many attacks by Muslims on Jews and non-Muslims, but no one dares to mention that they are a group. It is always: “He was a lone crazy man”.

By: javimendo

javimendo — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 19:27:18 +0000

This was not a killing, it was an execution. Bottom line; Tiller was a killer. You live by the “sword” you die by the “sword.”

I have no sympathy for money grubbing doctors (Yes, Tiller did it for the money – just follow the money trail) acting like they are doing something good for women but they are no better than a televangelist ripping off widows and orphans for their last cent!

“Pro choice/death” people are such hypocrites; never seeing the forest because of the tree of their selfishness; never shedding a tear for the children torn to shreds by this man's seared conscience.

By: Ghostdreams

Ghostdreams — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:05:14 +0000

Hi Doc.
I received an "action alert" from Planned Parenthood that allowed me to go read and then sign an open letter of regret and sorrow over Dr. Tiller's murder.
There's not much one can do at a times like these and sometimes we wind up feeling overwhelmed and hopeless so I thought it a great idea that Planned Parenthood is giving people a chance to do something positive.
The name of the letter is:
An Open Letter in Response to the Murder of Dr. Tiller

And for anyone interested in reading or signing it the url is:
http://www.ppaction.org/campaign/honor_tiller?r...

Take care and be well,
Ghosty

By: Ghostdreams

Ghostdreams — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 07:12:10 +0000

I just hope this is dealt with for the crime it is ..
A terrorist act of assassination.
Somehow our nation has got to give a message to our "home grown terrorist" networks that they will be branded for what they are and dealt with accordingly ...Cuz at this point it seems obvious that the extremist groups aren't going to be cutting back on their need to discharge their "holy rage" at innocent people.
I also hope this isn't going to become a "trend."
Something about this reminds me of the Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting that occurred July 28th of last year. Ten months later, the radical right strike again...
Disgusting behavior from small, narrow, twisted people.
Oh duh! Both of these sickos went into churches to murder people.
Both of them refuse to live in a society with respect and tolerance as a goal to work towards.
Why is it I never hear of right wing churches and groups having people come into their holy sanctuaries to murder them?
my two cents
Ghost

By: joelwelty

joelwelty — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:59:25 +0000

I remember back in the 30s and 40s, when “moderates” spoke nastily about Jews. They were all “parasites,” I remember my Sunday School teacher telling the class. They were not admitted to local country clubs. They were identified with Fagins and other disreputable people. But when the history of the Holocaust became known, all these anti-Semites said, “Oh, my goodness, we would never do such things.” But the Christians who degraded and disparaged Jews were, in fact, culpable, for they created the hostile atmosphere in which the Holocaust was the logical result. Today, the anti-abortion people are creating the hostility, the violent accusations, the mis-use of the word “murder,” and other pieces of the atmosphere which enable the actual shooters to cut down their targets in real life. They foment violence and then proclaim their innocence.

By: Leda

Leda — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:35:51 +0000

Quite a victory for the Church Militant, this!

And in the same month that the president tried at Notre Dame to bring people of different beliefs — all of them sincerely held — into a truce and a dialog.

Shame on those who would try to inflame passions over this awful subject. Shame on those who would be willing to harm physically anyone who disagrees with them.

By: christoofar

christoofar — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:24:59 +0000

Operation “Rescue” has always seemed to draw out a goodly number of the extremist element of the anti-abortion side.
Definitely NOT as “rank and file” members, but having attended many of their attempts at trying to blockade women's clinics in So.Cal. in the late 80s/early 90s, there were always individuals “on the fringe” who got a lot more physical and “in your face” than those who just sat peacefully in front of doors. I saw them attack clinic workers, a doctor, even patients, and of course they were overwhelmingly male. Terry has always played his slick game to incite people to get involved (which is fine, that is his schtick). Sadly the more literal minded kooks also get drawn to that same flame. What Dr. Tiller did was legal, and sadly, needed by the unfortunate few who had no other option. The “late term abortion” label was very easy to fling around, but to actually understand the reasons for having it done, and the number performed is to understand how rare it really was. He stood firmly to offer help to women, even through getting shot for it, only to be brought down by this coward.

By: CStanley

CStanley — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 20:27:15 +0000

And thank you for the response, Dr. E. I hope you can appreciate my concern since many want to politicize this event on all sides, and while it's important to make examples of abortion extremists (individuals and groups) who condone acts of terrorism and violence, it's equally important not to ensnare the innocent in that net. There are those on the prochoice side who would prefer to deliberately do that in order to silence prolifers and make that point of view seem more extreme or disingenous than it really is for most of us.

By: archangel

archangel — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:34:37 +0000

dear CStanley, I can see how one can read into this headline, actually most headlines, however, this headline referred to reporting of alleged fact, as I mentioned, the info about Mr Roeder being on a forum at OR, coming from said reporter at KAKE. If I write an article referencing OR more in depth, I'll research their mission and history. For this article however, 'forum' at OR was the first breaking news last night about Mr. Roeder besides that he was apprehended.

thanks CS,
dr.e

By: CStanley

CStanley — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 15:21:42 +0000

Just to add a bit, here's a story which gives the same information about the online posting by this suspect, but with a lot more balance about who he was and all that he was involved in (much of which sounds pretty...unbalanced.)

One point which was brought out in that article:
"Roeder also was a subscriber to Prayer and Action News, a magazine that advocated the justifiable homicide position, said publisher Dave Leach, an anti-abortion activist from Des Moines, Iowa."

Now, assuming that that's accurate, I have NO problem with condemning THAT organization if they're truly advocating the position of 'justifiable homicide", and NO problem with someone clearly broadcasting the suspect's involvement with the group. Abortion extremist groups should be held responsible if they promote violent behavior, but the ones that don't shouldn't be tarred with guilt by association if a fringe individual stops by their website and leaves a comment.

By: CStanley

CStanley — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 14:57:47 +0000

Technically I'm sure you're correct, Joe, but it still remains that he was a 'member' of the group only in the sense of commenting on on online forum. Just because the group advocates for a single issue doesn't make them any more responsible for the actions of a commenter on their website IMO than would be the case for a political blog which might take some inflammatory stands against political figures, for instance. It's just as possible that a lone commenter might be part of a conversation on a political blog like this one, where the blog posts sometimes take passionate stands against the actions of politicians, and the commenter might wind up being someone prone to an act of violence or attempt at that.

I realize nothing is overtly stated here about Operation Rescue itself, but there's certainly an implied guilt by association (perhaps an implication that the group's rhetoric incited the violence.) I don't think that's my inferrence only, but perhaps others can weigh in.

I also think it's at least incumbent on an author who points to this piece of the news story to clearly state that the suspect was not a true active member of the organization, nor was his action supported by the group in any way (in fact they immediately and forcefully condemned the act.)

By: joegandelman

joegandelman — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:55:18 +0000

There's a little bit of difference. That analogy doesn't hold up at all. Operation Rescue and from reports coming out about this person are focused on a linkage to one specific issue. The headline is accurate if that is what news reports are reporting and if people want to debate whether it implies something…it implies that news reports are reporting that an act that appears to have had a political motive stems from someone who belongs to a political group. That doesn't imply that it this suspect who has not yet been formally charge actually did it that it was ordered by that group at all. The headline states a piece of emerging info. The headline is fine for this post.

By: CStanley

CStanley — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 12:46:52 +0000

I'm really troubled by the implications of the title of this post. A forum. An internet forum. Would TMV like to be held responsible for any crime that might be committed by a commenter on this blog?

By: ordinarysparrow

ordinarysparrow — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 09:25:00 +0000

dear Dr. E. Mercy!. . .i have been shaking the head all day on this one. . .the decisions people make when the mind does not open through the heart. . .i remember reading the definitions of terror and horror. . .and this one seems to be one of horror because the mind cannot grasp the dissonance of heart and thought being revealed in the many layers of this murder and murderer. . . so many paradoxes, contractions, contraindications . . . have wondered the underlying dynamics of the extreme fringe of Pro lifers, and how is it similar to terrorist? . . . seems to me the other cases of the murderers have a similar profile as Roeder. . .Humans are frightful beings when a man is gunned down while serving at Church, by a man who stumbles in darkness while proclaiming the ways of God's light and love for life and family, yet carried beliefs do adamantly espousing hatred it wrecked his own family; on a unclouded day, while the one sun/son was overhead shinning for all. I do not know how to make all of that fit into one sentence, It will be sunrise soon. . .

In the world's darkness.

By: Kansan

Kansan — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 09:15:04 +0000

Operation Save America, Operation Rescue West, Flip Benham, Troy Newman, convicted bomb plotter Cheryl Sullinger, have all conspired to damage Dr. Tiller. He's been shot by these crazies before. Here's what one "minister" said on Sunday, about Tiller's assassination:

"What was an abortionist doing 'in' church, any church...being allowed, welcomed, even venerated? This man killed babies for a living. He charged large sums of money to do it. Then he went to 'church,' made large contributions, and the 'church' (Reformation Lutheran Church) accepted it??" Pastor Mark Holick, Spirit One Christian Center, & OSA."

Horlick also is said to have referred to Tiller's killing in church yesteday as "a miracle." Fred Phelps and his deranged crew also showed up to celebrate Tiller's death.