Medically, a fetus becomes a baby at its first breath. Then, siblings recognize it & it's named, christened, given citizenship, & celebrates zero. Unless you're a surrogate, the only way to give rights to unborn is to take away women's.

Check out the extremism: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamer…

And come on, although I clicked on that one page and I see the rhetoric about homosexuals, which I certainly don't agree with or condone, I also think you're being a bit over the top in ridiculing any claims of violence in the animal rights movement. There certainly are some such groups which are extremist and use violent, even terroristic, tactics. Obviously criticizing that isn't the same as saying that companion animal owners are a threat.

Oh wait!
This just in!
Murder suspect
Scott Philip Roeder (born February 25, 1958(1958-02-25)) was arrested some 170 miles away in suburban Kansas City three hours after the shooting, Wichita Deputy Police Chief Tom Stolz said. [29][7][30] The suspect had been a member of the anti-government Freemen group and was convicted in 1996 on explosives charges after police officers discovered fuse cord, a pound of gunpowder and nine-volt batteries in the trunk his car, but an appeals court overturned this conviction in 1997, ruling that the search of Roeder's car had been illegal.
———————————————————————
Ok……are you wondering who the Freemen are? I am.
Gotta love wikipedia:
The Montana Freemen were a Christian Patriot group based near the town of Jordan in the U.S. state of Montana.
The Montana Freemen claimed to believe in the doctrine of individual sovereignty as expounded by the Sovereign Citizen Movement, and rejected the authority of the United States federal government. As a result of these claimed beliefs, they attempted to set up their own parallel systems of government (“Justus Township”), common-law court, banking, and credit. They became publicly known during their 81-day-long standoff with U.S. Marshals from March 25 through June 13, 1996.

I am babbling again.
Time for night night ..
Good night.

Below, I've copied/pasted, in italics, part of their intro statement concerning “anti pro-life violence,” and I don't believe you would have posted the site if you knew they had this nicely tucked away as part of their documentation”
“Introduction. We can't honestly deny that some so-called “pro-lifers” have committed murder, have bombed and burned abortion mills, and are guilty of physical assault. This behavior is inexcusable but inevitable when you consider the vast size of the pro-life movement. With more than a million active members, there is absolutely no practical way to screen out every person with violent thoughts or inclinations.
Yet history shows us that the pro-life movement is by far the most peaceful social movement in the history of the world. Every other social movement is guilty of far greater death and destruction, including the civil rights movement, the unionization movement, the anti-apartheid movement, the “gay rights” movement, and, of course, the pro-abortion movement.
Violence by the Homosexuals. Anyone who has dealt with homosexual activists knows that they are extremely violent and uncontrolled by nature. The Bible correctly labels them “vicious men, great sinners against Yahweh” (Genesis 13:13). Homosexual activists routinely use violence and threats of violence to accomplish their objectives. Even the “birth” of the modern “gay-rights” movement happened during a riot.”

It's hate rhetoric and it's fanatical (think Fred Phelps and his “godhatesfags.com”).

The one url you mentioned that's listed there from the Justice Dept, didn't exist. It was a blank page. When I looked it in a search it up it was this addy: http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/crim/tfreppub.php and it talks about the violence against pro-choice doctors and providers. Nothing about pro-life people being targeted. It's not what the website is even there for.

Ghost

Mexico Medicines

The vast majority express anger, sorrow and horror at the senseless killing of Dr. George Tiller, as it should be.

However, I am puzzled at some of the inevitable “buts” which sometimes follow such expressions..

In this case, I feel there are no ifs, ands, or buts, period. But, perhaps I am wrong

If asty is a real person who is not trying to wallpaper a website targeting a murder victim by name, he/ she can log into TMV under another name, and his /her comments which are not spam, are welcomed.

Dr.E.
Assistant Editor, TMV

PM, I'm not highly familiar with that source, but each of their allegations is documented either to media sources or court records. I recall reading some of the info on their site about some GA cases, which they reference back to legitimate stories from the AJC, so those at least were valid (I remember some of the cases from local news reports.) Those particular stories weren't about violence against prolife demonstrators though.

I also already stated that part of the assertion I expressed is based on personal anecdote, which I can't document. Unfortunately it seems that most of the time when these events occur, there is no national press attention at all, and the sources that do aggregate the stories are invariably going to be branded as biased or inadmissable.

It's much more convenient to smear the character of Kline than to actually examine the evidence he uncovered.

It's also important to follow the money when we question the biases of the two AG's involved:
ProKanDo, a political action committee formed by Tiller in 2002, raised more than $650,000 in 2005-06, including $121,000 from Tiller. It worked to defeat Attorney General Phill Kline, an anti-abortion Republican.

http://www.cjonline.com/stories/062307/sta_1795…

and C Stanley, i would suggest you doing a bit of research on the case brought against Dr. Tiller. . .Let me suggest doing a little research on Phil Kline. . .Zealot Fundamentalist Politician obsessed with anything sexual or having to do with reproductive rights. . .

Here is a bit from wicki on Phil Kline. . .the lawsuits had more to do with Kline and his agenda than anything that Dr. Tiller did or did not do. . . Muddy water does not even begin to describe the sludge pit of this political quagmire that accompanied the lawsuits brought against Dr. Tiller. . . I heard and honor your stance on pro-life, but to judge the death of Dr. Tiller with the trumped up lawsuits brought to him by Phil Kline is really not fair. . .

“Abortion controversy

In 2003, Kline began investigating possible cases of child rape and illegal partial-birth and late-term abortions. In doing so, Kline requested the redacted medical records (without names) of 90 women and girls who either gave birth to a child or had an abortion. His office was ultimately granted these redacted records by the Kansas Supreme Court.[6]

On December 21, 2006, Kline charged abortion provider Dr. George Tiller with more than 30 misdemeanors, most involving abortions Tiller allegedly performed on minors. But just hours after the charges were unsealed, a Sedgwick County judge threw them out “at the request of Sedgwick County District Attorney Nola Foulston, who said her office had not been consulted by Kline.”[7] However, on June 28, 2007, a 19-count indictment was unexpectedly filed against Tiller by Kline's successor, Paul Morrison. On March 27, 2009 Dr. George Tiller was found not guilty of all 19 misdemeanor charges stemming from some abortions he performed at his Wichita clinic in 2003. [8]

In a related matter, Kline was named a defendant in a suit brought in the United States District Court for the District of Kansas challenging a state law requiring “doctors and other professionals”[9] to report “all consensual underage sexual activity as sexual abuse.”[10] On April 18, 2006, Judge J. Thomas Marten agreed and issued a permanent injunction, ruling that such a policy was contrary to state law.[10]

In 2006, Operation Rescue and Phil Kline claimed that an alleged rapist was captured with the help of abortion clinic medical records subpoenaed as a result of Kline's investigation.[11] The District Attorney who prosecuted Estrada challenged Operation Rescue's claims, stating that Kline and the records had no involvement in the prosecution.[11]

Did you actually look at their documentation? Since I have a great deal of respect for you, and have generally found your positions to be based on rational bases, I have to assume not. But you probably should take the time to do so before relying on this particular source in the future. To say their numbers are suspect would be a massive understatement.

Did you post that link with a straight face?

I mean, seriously, 1,251 homicides and other killings?????

Why not just claim over 10,000 since they refuse to document any of them anyway? And they list Dr Milos Klvana in their “more” section despite the fact that his conviction had to do with attempting home deliveries, not abortion.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Anti-abortionists have deliberately caused millions in property damage through arson and vandalism, and have resorted to everything except weapons of mass destruction (though they have threatened that over 600 times) in their frankly terrorist campaign against abortion clinics and even Planned Parenthood offices that don't provide abortions.

Links, Kathy: From Canada, this article details the cases up to 2004 (when it was written): http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_viol.htm
Wikipedia's entry on “anti-abortion violence” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_viol… (there isn't one on 'pro-abortion' violence).

Do visit the link CS provided and see if you can find details. I found it was pretty weak.

I have no doubt there have been cases on both sides, and I join CS deploring violence on both sides.

Anti-abortion violence in Australia: http://tech.mit.edu/V113/N54/neimark.54o.html

The Department of Homeland Security, in a study begun by GW Bush warned about elements of the anti-abortion movement:

“A movement of groups or individuals who are virulently antiabortion and advocate violence against providers of abortion-related services, their employees, and their facilities. Some cite various racist and anti-Semitic beliefs to justify their criminal activities.”

Some of what I refer to about violence committed by prochoicers against prolifers is anecdotal from people I know, but here's a link to an organization that documents events.. I don't know why you accuse me of glossing over prolife extremism, as I've made several condemnations of it already and have explicitly stated that I'm not arguing that there's equivalent amounts of this sort of thing on either side of the spectrum.

Okay, I take your meaning now. And admittedly it's true that I did not closely follow Dr. Tiller's trial, so you may know more about it than I do. Having said that, is it possible that the state censure was politically motivated as well? I mean, Kansas is a very conservative, anti-abortion state, and if the prosecutors did not have or could not come up with enough evidence to convict Dr. Tiller, that has to mean something.

Just because the law isn't being enforced doesn't mean that what he was doing was legal. His physician for second opinions was anything but independent, which is what the law requires. She's also no psychiatric expert and should not have been qualified to make determinations about the mental status of the women.

Understood, but (with the same caveat as above), isn't it also true that just because Dr. Tiller was acquitted, doesn't necessarily mean the law isn't being enforced? In what way was Tiller's physician for second opinions “anything but independent”? What defines “independent”? And in what way was she “no psychiatric expert”? Was she a licensed psychiatrist? Did she practice psychiatry? Again, I don't know these details, which is why I'm asking.

As for your comment about violence against anti-abortionists, that was sufficiently interesting to me to do a bit of digging. I think you're wrong about that, or at least glossing over the huge levels of violence on your side of the issue. (got links?)

That brief research shocked me. I've changed my mind about my first comment here. After over 500 anthrax threats by your anti-abortionists and thousands of death threats and bomb threats, I do believe those groups should be under constant surveillance as high-probability domestic terrorists.