Comments on: “Pirates”: They Were Teenagers, and The Elders Too Often Asleep http://themoderatevoice.com/28932/pirates-they-were-teenagers-and-the-elders-too-often-asleep/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Wed, 30 May 2012 16:53:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: archangel http://themoderatevoice.com/28932/pirates-they-were-teenagers-and-the-elders-too-often-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-180108 archangel Wed, 15 Apr 2009 09:05:08 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=28932#comment-180108 amazing Ordinarynonordinarysparrow<br><br>dr.e amazing Ordinarynonordinarysparrow

dr.e

]]> By: ordinarysparrow http://themoderatevoice.com/28932/pirates-they-were-teenagers-and-the-elders-too-often-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-179983 ordinarysparrow Tue, 14 Apr 2009 23:59:16 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=28932#comment-179983 Dr. E. . .wanted to make sure you saw this one. . . perhaps there is hope?. . . <br><br><a href="http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-04/14/content_11184581.htm" rel="nofollow">http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-04/14/co...</a> Dr. E. . .wanted to make sure you saw this one. . . perhaps there is hope?. . .

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-04/14/co…

]]> By: archangel http://themoderatevoice.com/28932/pirates-they-were-teenagers-and-the-elders-too-often-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-179917 archangel Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:26:51 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=28932#comment-179917 "no other role models in the case of many kids who lost most or all of their families)."<br><br>thou has said it all DLS. Thank you!<br><br>and you're right, it is a worldwide issue. I think, in at least one light, that there have to be more than news stories about it, because blog, tv, radio, print newspapers just scroll by. A more fixed media; films/ movies, documentaries. I have a sense that would be the place to put the most jing to bring the issues above ground so they would stay there for a longer while... and hopefully be mediated far more so. <br><br>Let's think about who we can write to who might do that.<br><br>dr.e “no other role models in the case of many kids who lost most or all of their families).”

thou has said it all DLS. Thank you!

and you're right, it is a worldwide issue. I think, in at least one light, that there have to be more than news stories about it, because blog, tv, radio, print newspapers just scroll by. A more fixed media; films/ movies, documentaries. I have a sense that would be the place to put the most jing to bring the issues above ground so they would stay there for a longer while… and hopefully be mediated far more so.

Let's think about who we can write to who might do that.

dr.e

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/28932/pirates-they-were-teenagers-and-the-elders-too-often-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-179894 DLS Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:45:37 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=28932#comment-179894 We know about the worst excesses currently happening in Mexico. But what about not only Mexico, or Colombia, but also elsewhere in Latin America, the drug organizations and what that does for children's aspirations? We have seen in Somalia that the pirates make fabulous, flashy, highly-affluent celeb role models for kids growing up (this was news long before the current piracy story or more properly, recent group of stories), and we have seen that also in the case of the terrorists (as a Lebanese friend of mine back in the 1980s had said, in some cases in lieu of no other role models in the case of many kids who lost most or all of their families). We know about the worst excesses currently happening in Mexico. But what about not only Mexico, or Colombia, but also elsewhere in Latin America, the drug organizations and what that does for children's aspirations? We have seen in Somalia that the pirates make fabulous, flashy, highly-affluent celeb role models for kids growing up (this was news long before the current piracy story or more properly, recent group of stories), and we have seen that also in the case of the terrorists (as a Lebanese friend of mine back in the 1980s had said, in some cases in lieu of no other role models in the case of many kids who lost most or all of their families).

]]> By: archangel http://themoderatevoice.com/28932/pirates-they-were-teenagers-and-the-elders-too-often-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-179890 archangel Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:34:54 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=28932#comment-179890 dear Polimom, it is nice to see you again. I have missed your tmv articles too. Come on back. I would like to read you on the front page too.<br><br>I dont know Polimom, how to take 100 pounds of story and put it all in a 1# bag re the destruction of elderhood across the world. I wish I could. THis was an effort to make a comment on how the elders in our times often go to sleep about the young, often in my experience, being in denial about growing menace not only to others but to themselves.... whereas in another time there was often an Aunt Mary on every corner and a Mr. Headman at the top of every group of boys in the family/ tribes. (and a Headwoman re girls) I think our time is very different. It's a huge subject, the deterioration of elders in their containment and flourishing helps to the family/ tribal members... whether in religious institutions, families, corps, etc... <br><br>Failure of elders to watch and act to contain and direct is not the ONLY issue re Somali hijackings, but in this article I wanted to mention it as one factor I've seen over and over again at every disaster and massacre site I've worked at.<br><br>this is just my two cents worth... and I think there are many eitiologies that I've witnessed firsthand, and more that I havent that I can only speculate on. Going back just a few generations, certainly one factor that effectively destroys the power of the elders is forced migration, and another is war and the killing off of the elders wherein none are left to teach, guide, hold the lines in same, new and different ways, adapting with some wisdom and vision to the new circumstances/ travail... <br><br>also the taking of prisoners, torture, and maiming, so that group/family/ tribal members who do manage to return to the family group come back crippled and decimated, often unable to make the contributions and encirclements of the young they once did. <br><br>Other more 'modern' basis that contribute are the breaking of elders away from modern families, (as we witness 'migratory retirement' often, in the US and other 'western countries') so that there is no continuity of what I call in my work elders 'parenting the parents.' There is so much breakage when they live a thousand miles away from one another... and, given several generations now of that being the exact geography, it appears many elders no longer have the means or know how to reconstitute the family group other than holidays perhaps... and certainly not to say they do not love deeply. They do. Perhaps that's the greater tragedy of it. <br><br>While surely there are elders who are unfit for the work from not having given themselves to learning it over the decades of their lives (I've some in my own family), I've nun and priest friends in many parts of Africa, including Somalia, and the conditions of so so many of the people throughout are what could easily be called 'destroyed tribes' that no longer have their containments nor their spiritual rituals, and in some cases, have forgotten through the generations how to plant a small crop, how to build near water. The destruction of the teachers and spiritual elders is profound. A warlord fills the vacancy. <br><br>Again, it's just my two cents worth, but it appears that aggression has to be guided into forms that are not harmful to self and others. There was much of this taught in other times. The drive to aggression is in all persons, some in high vitality, others in low vitality. That is one of the matters that comes loose when strong tribal group i are decimated and nothing else set in place. <br><br>This is just an effort to offer some thoughts, not a precis or white paper. Thanks polimom. And I look forward to your writing for TMV more. <br><br>dr.e dear Polimom, it is nice to see you again. I have missed your tmv articles too. Come on back. I would like to read you on the front page too.

I dont know Polimom, how to take 100 pounds of story and put it all in a 1# bag re the destruction of elderhood across the world. I wish I could. THis was an effort to make a comment on how the elders in our times often go to sleep about the young, often in my experience, being in denial about growing menace not only to others but to themselves…. whereas in another time there was often an Aunt Mary on every corner and a Mr. Headman at the top of every group of boys in the family/ tribes. (and a Headwoman re girls) I think our time is very different. It's a huge subject, the deterioration of elders in their containment and flourishing helps to the family/ tribal members… whether in religious institutions, families, corps, etc…

Failure of elders to watch and act to contain and direct is not the ONLY issue re Somali hijackings, but in this article I wanted to mention it as one factor I've seen over and over again at every disaster and massacre site I've worked at.

this is just my two cents worth… and I think there are many eitiologies that I've witnessed firsthand, and more that I havent that I can only speculate on. Going back just a few generations, certainly one factor that effectively destroys the power of the elders is forced migration, and another is war and the killing off of the elders wherein none are left to teach, guide, hold the lines in same, new and different ways, adapting with some wisdom and vision to the new circumstances/ travail…

also the taking of prisoners, torture, and maiming, so that group/family/ tribal members who do manage to return to the family group come back crippled and decimated, often unable to make the contributions and encirclements of the young they once did.

Other more 'modern' basis that contribute are the breaking of elders away from modern families, (as we witness 'migratory retirement' often, in the US and other 'western countries') so that there is no continuity of what I call in my work elders 'parenting the parents.' There is so much breakage when they live a thousand miles away from one another… and, given several generations now of that being the exact geography, it appears many elders no longer have the means or know how to reconstitute the family group other than holidays perhaps… and certainly not to say they do not love deeply. They do. Perhaps that's the greater tragedy of it.

While surely there are elders who are unfit for the work from not having given themselves to learning it over the decades of their lives (I've some in my own family), I've nun and priest friends in many parts of Africa, including Somalia, and the conditions of so so many of the people throughout are what could easily be called 'destroyed tribes' that no longer have their containments nor their spiritual rituals, and in some cases, have forgotten through the generations how to plant a small crop, how to build near water. The destruction of the teachers and spiritual elders is profound. A warlord fills the vacancy.

Again, it's just my two cents worth, but it appears that aggression has to be guided into forms that are not harmful to self and others. There was much of this taught in other times. The drive to aggression is in all persons, some in high vitality, others in low vitality. That is one of the matters that comes loose when strong tribal group i are decimated and nothing else set in place.

This is just an effort to offer some thoughts, not a precis or white paper. Thanks polimom. And I look forward to your writing for TMV more.

dr.e

]]> By: Polimom http://themoderatevoice.com/28932/pirates-they-were-teenagers-and-the-elders-too-often-asleep/comment-page-1/#comment-179795 Polimom Tue, 14 Apr 2009 14:49:48 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/?p=28932#comment-179795 I'm having a bit of trouble understanding you here. Are you saying that if the Somali tribal elders had been paying more attention to these "teens", they might not have gone down this road?<br><br>?? I'm having a bit of trouble understanding you here. Are you saying that if the Somali tribal elders had been paying more attention to these “teens”, they might not have gone down this road?

??

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