Comments on: Our Lady of Guadalupe, A Catholic Latina’s Take: Hillary Clinton Vindicated

By: vidalita

vidalita — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 01:51:25 +0000

You described our latino people in the real light and reminded me that sometimes even when the world is hard to deal with, our connection to la alma reveals and releases our true self. Thanks Dr.Estes!

By: jkennedy

jkennedy — Thu, 02 Apr 2009 05:51:43 +0000

I admire and respect this point of view, but I would like to add one more note of vindication. As was reported in “Politico” today, the image Secretary Clinton was shown was not the original “tilma,” but a reproduction, which made her innocent comment, “who painted it?” even more appropriate. Regardless of one's politics, it is clear from Hillary Clinton's career that she is respectful of people's religious beliefs and is, herself, a serious and believing Christian. And as a Senator from New York, she was always attentive to the state's Latino population.

By: LionAslan

LionAslan — Tue, 31 Mar 2009 07:06:46 +0000

The Secretary of State knowing these things isnt important to most of us. We teach whoever asks, and with national pride. Los United Statesians can take their own politicians to task about things they think matter. This item doesnt. There is no offense to Our Lady, to the Basilica. Being offended is not what Catholicism is about, despite how some try to spin it. I notice too Dr., this article was picked up and featured by The Wall Street Journal today. ¡Andele! Way to go.

By: observant1

observant1 — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:48:30 +0000

Leonidas, right on! Madam Secretary's protocol staff needs a good berating. She should have been briefed about where she was going, why she was going there, and what the whole thing signifies. The Basilica of Guadalupe is not just another “church.” And she should have been told that.

By: Ghostdreams

Ghostdreams — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:03:39 +0000

How sad.
A great deal of the very people criticizing the woman would have fared no better in such a situation. I know few non-Catholics that are up to date on all of the relics/icons or even the names of the all of the Saints of the Catholic church (as a matter of fact, there's lots of Catholics and lapsed Catholics that fall into the same category – that includes yours truly btw).
But some folks are taking her to task on this?
She makes an unplanned stop to leave flowers for Our Lady and makes the mistake of asking a question?
Oh brother. Over reaction is in the air big time these days, eh?
I appreciate your own personal input and attitudes and, as usual, your balanced and articulate appraisal of the situation Doc. You always give me something to think about!
Also, thank you for providing the link to the Jazz Shaw post (which I thought to be well spoken). Sad though that some of the people commenting to Jazz's article seem to have slipped off the edge of the “over eager” to bash anything and everything related to the Obama administration.

Personally, when I've been in other countries, either to visit or to live, I've always found the local folks more than happy to tell me about their history, their customs, language, name it.
And, for me, the two nations that really stand out in my mind in this regard, are Ireland and Mexico. The inhabitants of both countries seem to be born to storytelling (and better yet, the stories are just incredible and wonderful).
Also, it's my opinion that the answer given by the priest (when Clinton asked, “Who painted it?” Priest answers: “God!”) has:
1) Probably given that many reply to others who have asked before …
Because….
2) The reply sounds like a “lead in” to a story
i.e. When the priest answers, “God,” then the audience wants to hear more. I – the listener – want to say, “Whoa! Really? Can I hear more about that Father?” At which time I get to hear the story about how the icon came about, perhaps some of the history of how the church in that area developed, maybe some more information on the native peoples of that area, the culture, and so on and so forth – thus the listening audience gets a wonderful story along with the healing and spiritual medicine that comes with such a story and the Priest get's the chance to minister and share his vision of God's love, eh?
As ever…
My two cents worth.
Thanks again for the post Doc!
Ghost

By: Stolios

Stolios — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:17:16 +0000

A thought which came to mind as I read this was that it is so easy for people to tear things down, and yet so much more difficult to build them up. Even with so many issues confronting the governments of the US and Mexico, it remains an unfortunate truth that people will seize upon nearly anything as long as it serves their purpose to criticize.

Mind you, it apparently means nothing that she was making an important diplomatic visit to Mexico in the first place, or that she made an unexpected visit to the Basilica to perhaps genuinely partake in the the religious culture of Mexico City and Mexico itself, or that she seems to be making legitimate attempts to engage in diplomacy regarding the horrific situation with which border towns on both sides of the border have lately been dealing.

What matters is an apparently undiplomatic failure to understand something, and an unfortunate desire to learn about it.

The moral of the story: if you're the secretary of state, say less.

Yes, of course; that'll show 'em!

By: D. E.Rodriguez

D. E.Rodriguez — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:08:56 +0000

¡muy bien dicho, dr.e.!

By: Leonidas

Leonidas — Mon, 30 Mar 2009 15:26:06 +0000

The people she offended most were the people who expect ther Secetary of State to be a little bit more informed when visiting another country.