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	<title>Comments on: While We Talk Truth Commissions, Others Target Bush Torture Lawyers in Criminal Probe</title>
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		<title>By: The Worm Has Turned (Spain's Criminal Inquiry of Former Bush Officials)</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/27450/while-we-talk-truth-commissions-others-target-bush-torture-lawyers-in-criminal-probe/comment-page-1/#comment-178009</link>
		<dc:creator>The Worm Has Turned (Spain's Criminal Inquiry of Former Bush Officials)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 04:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] I posted here yesterday and it was widely reported today, including in the New York Times: A Spanish court has [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I posted here yesterday and it was widely reported today, including in the New York Times: A Spanish court has [...]</p>
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		<title>By: HemmD</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/27450/while-we-talk-truth-commissions-others-target-bush-torture-lawyers-in-criminal-probe/comment-page-1/#comment-177968</link>
		<dc:creator>HemmD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 18:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Little fish lead to the big fish.  Why try Watergate plumbers?  Why track down concentration guards?  The International court may not be the preferred venue, but at least somebody is trying to enforce the rule of law.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It is shameful that the US has allowed these breaches in law to go unpunished.  I mean, we are a nation of laws, aren&#039;t we?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Little fish lead to the big fish.  Why try Watergate plumbers?  Why track down concentration guards?  The International court may not be the preferred venue, but at least somebody is trying to enforce the rule of law.</p>
<p>It is shameful that the US has allowed these breaches in law to go unpunished.  I mean, we are a nation of laws, aren&#39;t we?</p>
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		<title>By: D. E.Rodriguez</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/27450/while-we-talk-truth-commissions-others-target-bush-torture-lawyers-in-criminal-probe/comment-page-1/#comment-177920</link>
		<dc:creator>D. E.Rodriguez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 00:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/27450/while-we-talk-truth-commissions-others-target-bush-torture-lawyers-in-criminal-probe/#comment-177920</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments AR.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My first reaction,  also without fleshing it out, is : Yes, go after the big fish, too!  That&#039;s what we should have done with the Abu Ghraib &quot;scandals.&quot;  Instead we went after some poor low-ranking troops.  Yes, go for the real culprits, the ones who gave the orders; the ones who knew about it and closed their eyes.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Furthermore, why do we have to rely on foreign countries to do our dirty work?? Why can&#039;t we do it ourselves?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Finally, talking about a &quot;slippery slope,&quot; I believe an even more slippery, and dangerous, slope is to let those who corrupted our Constitution, violated our laws and our justice system,  get off scot-free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments AR.</p>
<p>My first reaction,  also without fleshing it out, is : Yes, go after the big fish, too!  That&#39;s what we should have done with the Abu Ghraib &#8220;scandals.&#8221;  Instead we went after some poor low-ranking troops.  Yes, go for the real culprits, the ones who gave the orders; the ones who knew about it and closed their eyes.</p>
<p>Furthermore, why do we have to rely on foreign countries to do our dirty work?? Why can&#39;t we do it ourselves?</p>
<p>Finally, talking about a &#8220;slippery slope,&#8221; I believe an even more slippery, and dangerous, slope is to let those who corrupted our Constitution, violated our laws and our justice system,  get off scot-free.</p>
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		<title>By: AustinRoth</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/27450/while-we-talk-truth-commissions-others-target-bush-torture-lawyers-in-criminal-probe/comment-page-1/#comment-177919</link>
		<dc:creator>AustinRoth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 23:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dorien -&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I am surprised you do not see the dangerous slipperly slope. While I disagree with the concept of international courts going after Bush and Cheney, at least the logic has some soundness to it. If we stand by and allow those same courts to start diving down the food chain, so to speak, then we are allowing the creation of a new Nuremberg War Trails, but without a direct charter. What is a very possible progression? Why, to start arresting and putting on trial Military officers for any civilian deaths. I wish I had more time to more fully flesh this line of thought out, but the gist is obvious. Is this path, not just the initial players involved, one you support?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dorien -</p>
<p>I am surprised you do not see the dangerous slipperly slope. While I disagree with the concept of international courts going after Bush and Cheney, at least the logic has some soundness to it. If we stand by and allow those same courts to start diving down the food chain, so to speak, then we are allowing the creation of a new Nuremberg War Trails, but without a direct charter. What is a very possible progression? Why, to start arresting and putting on trial Military officers for any civilian deaths. I wish I had more time to more fully flesh this line of thought out, but the gist is obvious. Is this path, not just the initial players involved, one you support?</p>
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		<title>By: D. E.Rodriguez</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/27450/while-we-talk-truth-commissions-others-target-bush-torture-lawyers-in-criminal-probe/comment-page-1/#comment-177917</link>
		<dc:creator>D. E.Rodriguez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 23:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/27450/while-we-talk-truth-commissions-others-target-bush-torture-lawyers-in-criminal-probe/#comment-177917</guid>
		<description>This &quot;nice&quot; guy, Pinochet, was responsible for the murder, torture or disappearance of over 3,000 innocent men, women and children in Chile.  (Remember Saddam Hussein?  Wasn&#039;t something like this one of  the alleged reasons we invaded Iraq?).  Among these innocent victims, were 79 Spanish citizens.  That&#039;s how Spain was able to bring Pinochet to justice.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;On October 16th, 1998, a Spanish judge, Baltasar Garzón, requested General Pinochet&#039;s extradition to Spain for egregious human-rights crimes committed by a military junta led by General Pinochet, who later became Chile&#039;s head of state, following the brutal coup of 11 September 1973 that brought the junta to power deposing and killing the democratically elected President of Chile Salvador Allende. Over 3,000 people would die in the aftermath of the coup among them scores of foreigners residing in Chile. The warrant issued for the arrest of Pinochet regarded the murder, torture, or disappearance of 79 Spanish citizens. In the absence of appropriate redress at home, the relatives of thousands of people who had been tortured, murdered or forcibly &quot;disappeared&quot; in Chile during the Pinochet era had submitted complaints to Spanish and other European state courts which provided for universal jurisdiction under national law. The day after the extradiction request, General Pinochet was arrested on a Spanish provisional warrant for the murder of those 79 Spanish citizens in Chile under his political responsability. Five days later, Pinochet was served with a second provisional arrest warrant from the Spanish investigating judges Baltasar Garzón and Manuel García Castellón, charging him with systematic torture, murder, illegal detention, and forced disappearances. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It is now this same  tough dude, Judge Baltasar Garzón, who is involved in the investigation of Bush&#039;s alleged co-conspirators. Garzón is Europe’s best known counterterrorism magistrate, responsible for hundreds of cases targeting the activities of ETA and related Basque terrorist organizations&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;By the way, he also spearheaded the successful investigation of Al Qaeda-affiliated terrorist organizations operating in the Maghreb region, including Spanish enclaves in Morocco.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Inquisition, you say?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Si se puede, hombre!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This &#8220;nice&#8221; guy, Pinochet, was responsible for the murder, torture or disappearance of over 3,000 innocent men, women and children in Chile.  (Remember Saddam Hussein?  Wasn&#39;t something like this one of  the alleged reasons we invaded Iraq?).  Among these innocent victims, were 79 Spanish citizens.  That&#39;s how Spain was able to bring Pinochet to justice.</p>
<p>On October 16th, 1998, a Spanish judge, Baltasar Garzón, requested General Pinochet&#39;s extradition to Spain for egregious human-rights crimes committed by a military junta led by General Pinochet, who later became Chile&#39;s head of state, following the brutal coup of 11 September 1973 that brought the junta to power deposing and killing the democratically elected President of Chile Salvador Allende. Over 3,000 people would die in the aftermath of the coup among them scores of foreigners residing in Chile. The warrant issued for the arrest of Pinochet regarded the murder, torture, or disappearance of 79 Spanish citizens. In the absence of appropriate redress at home, the relatives of thousands of people who had been tortured, murdered or forcibly &#8220;disappeared&#8221; in Chile during the Pinochet era had submitted complaints to Spanish and other European state courts which provided for universal jurisdiction under national law. The day after the extradiction request, General Pinochet was arrested on a Spanish provisional warrant for the murder of those 79 Spanish citizens in Chile under his political responsability. Five days later, Pinochet was served with a second provisional arrest warrant from the Spanish investigating judges Baltasar Garzón and Manuel García Castellón, charging him with systematic torture, murder, illegal detention, and forced disappearances. </p>
<p>It is now this same  tough dude, Judge Baltasar Garzón, who is involved in the investigation of Bush&#39;s alleged co-conspirators. Garzón is Europe’s best known counterterrorism magistrate, responsible for hundreds of cases targeting the activities of ETA and related Basque terrorist organizations</p>
<p>By the way, he also spearheaded the successful investigation of Al Qaeda-affiliated terrorist organizations operating in the Maghreb region, including Spanish enclaves in Morocco.</p>
<p>Inquisition, you say?</p>
<p>Si se puede, hombre!</p>
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		<title>By: daveinboca</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/27450/while-we-talk-truth-commissions-others-target-bush-torture-lawyers-in-criminal-probe/comment-page-1/#comment-177915</link>
		<dc:creator>daveinboca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 21:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This Spanish court has become a 21st c. version of the Inquisition &lt;i&gt;a rebours&lt;/i&gt;.   The leftist &quot;judges&quot; have been chasing former leaders in Europe to extradite them and tried to try Pinochet while he was in a hospital bed in London.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The left has discovered that judicial tyranny is another avenue to advance its agenda via crooked judges, the kind Leahy does his best to appoint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This Spanish court has become a 21st c. version of the Inquisition <i>a rebours</i>.   The leftist &#8220;judges&#8221; have been chasing former leaders in Europe to extradite them and tried to try Pinochet while he was in a hospital bed in London.</p>
<p>The left has discovered that judicial tyranny is another avenue to advance its agenda via crooked judges, the kind Leahy does his best to appoint.</p>
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