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	<title>Comments on: Old And New Media Have Field Day With Rush Limbaugh-Michael Steele Showdown (Limbaugh Won)</title>
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		<title>By: CStanley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/comment-page-1/#comment-175304</link>
		<dc:creator>CStanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/#comment-175304</guid>
		<description>mattcbrown- what a lot of us are criticizing though is the fearmongering which was used to push the stimulus bill through without full debate. It doesn&#039;t matter whether a crisis is real or not, if it&#039;s used to create an atmosphere so urgent that no one can actually even read a bill before voting on it, there&#039;s a problem. Urgent situations do require decisive action, but what we&#039;re getting is decisively partisan action, not anything that proves Obama to be a pragmatic problem solver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mattcbrown- what a lot of us are criticizing though is the fearmongering which was used to push the stimulus bill through without full debate. It doesn&#39;t matter whether a crisis is real or not, if it&#39;s used to create an atmosphere so urgent that no one can actually even read a bill before voting on it, there&#39;s a problem. Urgent situations do require decisive action, but what we&#39;re getting is decisively partisan action, not anything that proves Obama to be a pragmatic problem solver.</p>
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		<title>By: mattcbrown</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/comment-page-1/#comment-175300</link>
		<dc:creator>mattcbrown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/#comment-175300</guid>
		<description>Janjanjan&#039;s comments is utterly and succinctly perfect in his response to GS&#039;s &quot;centrism&quot; that I almost feel I shouldn&#039;t bother commenting.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But there&#039;s another reason to cry bullshit on GS&#039;s bogus parallels.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;George Bush said, &quot;Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, therefore we must invade Iraq and topple Saddam Hussein.&quot; That was neither the actual purpose of the invasion nor did it prove to be accurate. Therefore Bush wrote a prescription for a &quot;problem&quot; that &lt;i&gt;literally&lt;/i&gt; did not exist. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The economic crisis, on the other hand, &lt;i&gt;is actually happening&lt;/i&gt;. You might want to make a note of that: &quot;Economic crisis. Actually happening.&quot; You don&#039;t think so? Tell it to the ten percent of Californians who are unemployed, or to the millions of people who are about to be foreclosed upon. I&#039;m sure they&#039;ll feel better when they see that the economic crisis is just an illusion cooked up by socialists.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;GS may not like Obama&#039;s prescription, and it&#039;s fair for him to say so. But it is a prescription to a &lt;i&gt;real&lt;/i&gt; crisis, and there is not a person alive with any credibility who would say it is not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Janjanjan&#39;s comments is utterly and succinctly perfect in his response to GS&#39;s &#8220;centrism&#8221; that I almost feel I shouldn&#39;t bother commenting.</p>
<p>But there&#39;s another reason to cry bullshit on GS&#39;s bogus parallels.</p>
<p>George Bush said, &#8220;Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, therefore we must invade Iraq and topple Saddam Hussein.&#8221; That was neither the actual purpose of the invasion nor did it prove to be accurate. Therefore Bush wrote a prescription for a &#8220;problem&#8221; that <i>literally</i> did not exist. </p>
<p>The economic crisis, on the other hand, <i>is actually happening</i>. You might want to make a note of that: &#8220;Economic crisis. Actually happening.&#8221; You don&#39;t think so? Tell it to the ten percent of Californians who are unemployed, or to the millions of people who are about to be foreclosed upon. I&#39;m sure they&#39;ll feel better when they see that the economic crisis is just an illusion cooked up by socialists.</p>
<p>GS may not like Obama&#39;s prescription, and it&#39;s fair for him to say so. But it is a prescription to a <i>real</i> crisis, and there is not a person alive with any credibility who would say it is not.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Moore is No Rush Limbaugh - Liberal Values - Defending Liberty and Enlightened Thought</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/comment-page-1/#comment-175014</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Moore is No Rush Limbaugh - Liberal Values - Defending Liberty and Enlightened Thought</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 00:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/#comment-175014</guid>
		<description>[...] at least, really does run it. The argument that Limbaugh runs the GOP is even stronger if you accept Joe Gandelman&#8217;s assessment that Limbaugh won in his dispute with Michael [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] at least, really does run it. The argument that Limbaugh runs the GOP is even stronger if you accept Joe Gandelman&#8217;s assessment that Limbaugh won in his dispute with Michael [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Janjanjan</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/comment-page-1/#comment-174991</link>
		<dc:creator>Janjanjan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 21:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/#comment-174991</guid>
		<description>GS, I see a distinction between how Bush used 9/11 to attack Iraq and how Obama is using the economic crisis to advance his agenda--Bush never campaigned on attacking Iraq.  Had he, I suspect he wouldn&#039;t have won in 2000.  The agenda that Obama is advancing is the one that he campaigned on and won in 2008.  He is indeed using the economic crisis to &quot;prove&quot; the points of his campaign, but the American people had an opportunity to review his plan and vote for it--and they did.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;After reading Newsweek&#039;s articles on memos that the Bush administration put together following 9/11, it certainly seems that upholding the Constitution was not high on Bush&#039;s list of priorities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GS, I see a distinction between how Bush used 9/11 to attack Iraq and how Obama is using the economic crisis to advance his agenda&#8211;Bush never campaigned on attacking Iraq.  Had he, I suspect he wouldn&#39;t have won in 2000.  The agenda that Obama is advancing is the one that he campaigned on and won in 2008.  He is indeed using the economic crisis to &#8220;prove&#8221; the points of his campaign, but the American people had an opportunity to review his plan and vote for it&#8211;and they did.</p>
<p>After reading Newsweek&#39;s articles on memos that the Bush administration put together following 9/11, it certainly seems that upholding the Constitution was not high on Bush&#39;s list of priorities.</p>
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		<title>By: D. E.Rodriguez</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/comment-page-1/#comment-174962</link>
		<dc:creator>D. E.Rodriguez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 16:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/#comment-174962</guid>
		<description>&quot;Limbaugh Won&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yes!!.  Keep on winning, Mr. Limbaugh. And, Republicans, keep on kneeling at the Limbaugh altar.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That&#039;s exactly what Democrats would like to see.  No greater gift to Democrats than to have Mr. Limbaugh be considered  the image of the Republican Party, or vice versa...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Limbaugh Won&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes!!.  Keep on winning, Mr. Limbaugh. And, Republicans, keep on kneeling at the Limbaugh altar.</p>
<p>That&#39;s exactly what Democrats would like to see.  No greater gift to Democrats than to have Mr. Limbaugh be considered  the image of the Republican Party, or vice versa&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: greenschemes</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/comment-page-1/#comment-174944</link>
		<dc:creator>greenschemes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/#comment-174944</guid>
		<description>When you read my above statements collectively my point should be obvious.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;However the problem is that on this site as with others I am often taken at face value for what I write.  Fair enough.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The face value of what I wrote is quite obvious.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Fascism  vs. Nazism&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Obama and the left seem content on a pathway that could lead to Fascism.  GWB and friends seemed to be on a pathway that might lead to Nazism.  Criticism of both sides.  No one is blameless in my world.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;When Bush was in power the cry was he is a warmongering Nazi who wants to trample the constitution to keep us safe from an enemy that does not exist, or if he does exist hes in a cave somewhere with a tape recorder and thus was de demonized for propaganda purposes.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Now the Right and to some degree including me is demonizing Obama for his apparent attempt at fear mongering us with the economy to get legislation passed quicly and without debate for the sole purpose of tackling this big bad economic terrorist that might destroy us.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The parallels of the two administration is boggling and yet the point I make is that when Bush was in charge his advocates did not see it that way and now that Obama is in charge his advocates do not see it that way......Yet those people who are now screaming for fast action and no debate were the same ones who were livid that we went to war with fast action and no debate and a press saying &quot;BOOYAH!&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I draw parallels always in my writing because history is our friend.  It teaches us well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you read my above statements collectively my point should be obvious.  </p>
<p>However the problem is that on this site as with others I am often taken at face value for what I write.  Fair enough.</p>
<p>The face value of what I wrote is quite obvious.  </p>
<p>Fascism  vs. Nazism</p>
<p>Obama and the left seem content on a pathway that could lead to Fascism.  GWB and friends seemed to be on a pathway that might lead to Nazism.  Criticism of both sides.  No one is blameless in my world.</p>
<p>When Bush was in power the cry was he is a warmongering Nazi who wants to trample the constitution to keep us safe from an enemy that does not exist, or if he does exist hes in a cave somewhere with a tape recorder and thus was de demonized for propaganda purposes.</p>
<p>Now the Right and to some degree including me is demonizing Obama for his apparent attempt at fear mongering us with the economy to get legislation passed quicly and without debate for the sole purpose of tackling this big bad economic terrorist that might destroy us.</p>
<p>The parallels of the two administration is boggling and yet the point I make is that when Bush was in charge his advocates did not see it that way and now that Obama is in charge his advocates do not see it that way&#8230;&#8230;Yet those people who are now screaming for fast action and no debate were the same ones who were livid that we went to war with fast action and no debate and a press saying &#8220;BOOYAH!&#8221;</p>
<p>I draw parallels always in my writing because history is our friend.  It teaches us well.</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/comment-page-1/#comment-174943</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/#comment-174943</guid>
		<description>Even more eerie from the perspective of someone who believes there is merit in consistency and reason. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even more eerie from the perspective of someone who believes there is merit in consistency and reason. <img src='http://themoderatevoice.com/wordpress-engine/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: greenschemes</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/comment-page-1/#comment-174942</link>
		<dc:creator>greenschemes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/#comment-174942</guid>
		<description>Disconnected? Not really. The shoe is just on the other foot now. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;To wit.  I offer up examples.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;2000 GWB stole the election.  He really is not the president.  The supreme court ruled and we dont like the ruling.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;2008 Obama stole the election, he really is not the president, he cant produce a birth certificate that satisfies us.  The supreme court ruled and we dont like the ruling.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;Them terrists attacked us........were all gonna die if we dont stop them.......we must kill them all&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;The economy is crumbling,.....were all gonna starve if we dont stop it......we must penalize those that did this to us.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Eerie from the perspective of someone who thinks both parties are nitwits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disconnected? Not really. The shoe is just on the other foot now. </p>
<p>To wit.  I offer up examples.</p>
<p>2000 GWB stole the election.  He really is not the president.  The supreme court ruled and we dont like the ruling.</p>
<p>2008 Obama stole the election, he really is not the president, he cant produce a birth certificate that satisfies us.  The supreme court ruled and we dont like the ruling.</p>
<p>&#8220;Them terrists attacked us&#8230;&#8230;..were all gonna die if we dont stop them&#8230;&#8230;.we must kill them all&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;The economy is crumbling,&#8230;..were all gonna starve if we dont stop it&#8230;&#8230;we must penalize those that did this to us.&#8221;</p>
<p>Eerie from the perspective of someone who thinks both parties are nitwits.</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/comment-page-1/#comment-174941</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:50:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/#comment-174941</guid>
		<description>The more you post the more you seem to expose the degree to which you are challenged by objectivity and the ability to think clearly. Your false equivalence argument is a perfect example since it is not only feeble, but ignores the origins of such comparisons to begin with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more you post the more you seem to expose the degree to which you are challenged by objectivity and the ability to think clearly. Your false equivalence argument is a perfect example since it is not only feeble, but ignores the origins of such comparisons to begin with.</p>
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		<title>By: greenschemes</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/comment-page-1/#comment-174939</link>
		<dc:creator>greenschemes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/#comment-174939</guid>
		<description>Oh?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Disconnected?  Any more so then the lefts incessant cry at Bush trampling the constitution.  Bush was a Nazi?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Oh?  Really.  Amazing how when the shoe is on the other foot the cry is foul and the right is now disconnected for pointing out perceived movements away from sane policies to curb what their side sees as necessary for the wellbeing of the society at large.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Disconnected?  Not really.  The shoe is just on the other foot now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh?</p>
<p>Disconnected?  Any more so then the lefts incessant cry at Bush trampling the constitution.  Bush was a Nazi?</p>
<p>Oh?  Really.  Amazing how when the shoe is on the other foot the cry is foul and the right is now disconnected for pointing out perceived movements away from sane policies to curb what their side sees as necessary for the wellbeing of the society at large.</p>
<p>Disconnected?  Not really.  The shoe is just on the other foot now.</p>
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		<title>By: JSpencer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/comment-page-1/#comment-174936</link>
		<dc:creator>JSpencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/#comment-174936</guid>
		<description>Greenschemes last paragraph is a great example of just how disconnected a minority on the right are from objectivity, and this is unfortunately a condition that has been cultured by the very people he mentions. Extremist attitudes like these do nothing constructive for either the party or the country, and only increase concerns on the part of moderate republicans, liberals and independents. If you want to become even more marginalized, then keep it up. And if you really want a Limbaugh/Palin ticket in 2012, then I&#039;m sure the party currently in power now would be happy with that scenario... although not for the reasons you think.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;More importantly though, I see a minority of republicans who are genuinely mystified and disturbed by the Limbaugh phenomenon, and are interested in moving beyond it. I am encourage by those people and wish them well. What they may not understand though is how so many of their fellow republicans got wrapped up in the dynamic Limbaugh espouses, came to believe in it and even feed on it. Until those republicans can be weaned of their dependence on such voices of division and polarization, then the GOP will continue to be viewed by many to be led, at least in spirit, by the Limbaugh sorts. I believe the man has been around sufficiently long, and made enough noise, that ignorance is no longer an adequate excuse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greenschemes last paragraph is a great example of just how disconnected a minority on the right are from objectivity, and this is unfortunately a condition that has been cultured by the very people he mentions. Extremist attitudes like these do nothing constructive for either the party or the country, and only increase concerns on the part of moderate republicans, liberals and independents. If you want to become even more marginalized, then keep it up. And if you really want a Limbaugh/Palin ticket in 2012, then I&#39;m sure the party currently in power now would be happy with that scenario&#8230; although not for the reasons you think.</p>
<p>More importantly though, I see a minority of republicans who are genuinely mystified and disturbed by the Limbaugh phenomenon, and are interested in moving beyond it. I am encourage by those people and wish them well. What they may not understand though is how so many of their fellow republicans got wrapped up in the dynamic Limbaugh espouses, came to believe in it and even feed on it. Until those republicans can be weaned of their dependence on such voices of division and polarization, then the GOP will continue to be viewed by many to be led, at least in spirit, by the Limbaugh sorts. I believe the man has been around sufficiently long, and made enough noise, that ignorance is no longer an adequate excuse.</p>
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		<title>By: DaGoat</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/comment-page-1/#comment-174934</link>
		<dc:creator>DaGoat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/#comment-174934</guid>
		<description>I have to disagree with you to some extent, GS.  To an extent the GOP is reducing their own voice by the way they&#039;re embracing the Limbaughs and Hannitys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to disagree with you to some extent, GS.  To an extent the GOP is reducing their own voice by the way they&#39;re embracing the Limbaughs and Hannitys.</p>
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		<title>By: greenschemes</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/comment-page-1/#comment-174926</link>
		<dc:creator>greenschemes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/26859/old-and-new-media-have-field-day-with-rush-limbaugh-michael-steele-showdown-limbaugh-won/#comment-174926</guid>
		<description>Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Sound familiar?  In order for the new fascist government to get full control of the American economy they must get rid of any and all opposition and so the focus is now turned on people Like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity etc. in their attempts to discredit them and further reducing the voice of the opposition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. </p>
<p>Where socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic authority conceived it. (Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) </p>
<p>Where socialism abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market relations while planning all economic activities. </p>
<p>Where socialism abolished money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices and wages politically. In doing all this, fascism denatured the marketplace. Entrepreneurship was abolished. State ministries, rather than consumers, determined what was produced and under what conditions.</p>
<p>Sound familiar?  In order for the new fascist government to get full control of the American economy they must get rid of any and all opposition and so the focus is now turned on people Like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity etc. in their attempts to discredit them and further reducing the voice of the opposition.</p>
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