Then we can also take Europe as an example. If our current economic situation is a result of failed Republican policies, then how do you explain the fact that Europe (dominated for years by left wing economic policies) is in worse shape than we are?

If your fundamental diagnosis of the problem is wrong, then you're going to come to the wrong conclusions about the treatment. It's true that Republicans have f'ed things up, but they didn't do so by being too conservative. This isn't (or shouldn't be) an indictment on markets and capitalism, just a failure to oversee those institutions in an honest and competent manner. We should not allow this failure to be an excuse for other dishonest and incompetent players to institute their own playground for corruption (one which is inherently unsustainable and has never been proven to work in the long run.)

the Republicans don't have anything useful to offer at this point and want the Dems to fail so they can get back in power to do what? Take our country down the same old path that brought us to where we are today?

I say this because I felt the same way about Bush. While I didn't want anybody to actually get hurt in the war in Iraq, I knew that a “success” – especially in the early going – in Iraq would only encourage the neo-cons to pursue more reckless wars in Iran and elsewhere. And I knew that that would be catastrophic for the country. Therefore, I could never cheer any supposed “good news” coming out of Iraq in the early days of the war because I knew that the powers that be would learn the wrong lesson. After 2006, when the neo-cons were effectively repudiated, the long-term risk to America of success in Iraq dissipated. Nobody was going to look at the successful turn of the war after the Surge and the Anbar Awakening and conclude, “Hey, that was all worth it. Let's turn to Iran now!” Nobody except marginalized neocons, that is.

This is all uncomfortable for people to admit, but it's the truth. I think Limbaugh is right to take the position he does.

And now they want Obama to fail.

Hypocrisy never takes a day off.

Two points: first of all we know for a fact that jobs will be created (and or saved) through projects that start (or are able to continue) because of the money. That's verifiable and of course Obama has given Biden that task of creating the website so the American public can see the bailout dollars in action. So there will be tangible benefits, though (more to the point) no one knows the full extent of the benefits.

Second point… the strategy that the Republicans want to pursue, tax cuts, has absolutely no verifiable benefits. No programs to fund and jobs to create…. And we've already had years of failed Republican tax cuts.. which got us to this point…. So I don't even know why you're not willing to let Obama's plan work for a couple years and see the results (and complain that there are not verifiable) when we've spent eight years with a proven failed strategy that the Republicans only want more of the same.

There is only so much money the wealthy will spend in the US from tax cuts…. once the wealthy have their basic needs met (a couple houses, food, etc.) the tax cuts will create additional jobs through the trickle down effect. Jobs in France, where the wealthy buy planes from. More jobs in France where the wealthy will vacation and buy the latest fashions. And even more jobs in France as the wealthy will import fine French wine and other food.

As far as your statement, “I'm sorry, but there's never a time that one should compromise on principled opposition”.

I agree with that but when does principled opposition become cluelessness and failure to admit to reality over a strategy that has been proven not to work? Principles only work when they work. It's appalling, dangerous and foolhardy to continue to believe in principles that are failures. If it was proven that tax cuts were just as effective at stimulating the economy as government spending then we would have a real argument and good choices to debate. But the government spending will create jobs and a lot of them will be verifiable.

So, other than tax cuts, what other options do the Republicans have to get us out of this economic situation?

If you actually ever listened to Rush, you would have heard his criticism that President Obama failed to acknowledge the Bush Administration when discussing the partial withdrawal from Iraq. I assume Rush will give as much credit to the Obama Administration that the Obama Administration gave to the Bush Administration.

The most interesting part about the ecnonomic recovery is that there is no way to know if the stimulus actually worked. However, if in three years, there is still double digit unemployment and zero private sector job creation, will those Obama apologist admit that his program was a very expensive failure.

Gettng back to Rush for a moment though, does anyone think he will give Obama any credit if his policies end up pulling us out of this mess??? If you do, then I have some property in Pakistan I'd like to sell you. Btw Jill, I think your phrase, “malignant narcissist” really hits the mark. I've heard Rush described in many different terms, all the way from genius (by his sycophants) to the usual hot air bag references, but I think malignant narcissist is probably the most accurate of the bunch.

And then if there is some short term relief from the policies, in 2010 it will be impossible for the GOP to oppose the Congressional Dems because we'll hear endless spools of video of Republicans saying “we hope for the sake of the country that this works”, superimposed with some evidence that the policies have 'worked' (even if that evidence is as I described above.)

And yet, the disastrous effects that some of us believe could happen if this fails as badly as we think it is likely to do, may not have become apparent yet. So we're supposed to sit back and wait another two years, and another, until it's too late to turn things in a different direction.

I'm sorry, but there's never a time that one should compromise on principled opposition, and those who keep haggling over how to politely phrase it in order to 'prove' that we're not wishing ill on the country need to just grow up. It's not personal, and it certainly isn't unpatriotic- it's just a strong difference in opinion about what policies will have the best effect for our future.

I agree that would be a better statement.

Well, yes.. the conservatives want Obama's policies to fail which will hurt the country. The goal of Obama's policies is to keep the country out of a depression and raise the country from the recession.

I think a more responsible statement from the Republicans would be, “We don't agree with Obama's policies and think they are bad for the country. However for the sake of our country we want them to work. If Obama wants to pursue this path we will work with him to ensure that at least some of our ideas are implemented.”

Obama has reached out to Republicans and last week Joe G. posted a link to an article which indicated the House Republicans wanted concessions in the stimulus bill, which the Dems gave them, but no House GOPer voted for the stimulus bill anyway….

Do I really have to list the ways from closed shop unions to affirmative action to government employees that the left has put itself ahead of others. Do you really think that the teachers unions care more about the children than they do about preserving jobs and keeping all teachers on the job? Do you really think that the CBC cares about the nation or about themselves when they demand separate and unequal standards?

The neocon sentiments have never been a secret.

Long ago, most Americans realized that the conservative Republicans have placed their own self-interest above that of the majority of Americans. These neocon nutjobbers would rather see the country go down in flames, than admit that their philosophy is wrong.

Republicans = party above nation.

Liberals: GOP wants Obama to fail therefore they must want the country to fail.

Conservatives: we want Obama's policies to fail because we think they are bad and not in the best long term interests of the country.

Until we all get on the same page this argument is kind of pointless.

Also, I doubt if Republicans really want the Obama Administration to succeed in creating job killing labor, financial, environmental, and transportation regulations.