Comments on: F-22 and F-35, Not Mutually Exclusive http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Wed, 30 May 2012 19:10:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: TheRentschmeister http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-218358 TheRentschmeister Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:29:34 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/#comment-218358 Can't believe I missed this posting. Are you HONESTLY trying to compare the Soviet Union exploring Venus years ago to our current Mars missions? Do you know NOTHING about NASA's history? Not real familiar with the NASA Mariner missions? Obviously not if you are making comments like "Russian had a more successful space program." Tell you what, do some research on the U.S.Military's Stealth Programs, NASA's exploration history, then get back to me. You've got quite a bit to learn. Can't believe I missed this posting. Are you HONESTLY trying to compare the Soviet Union exploring Venus years ago to our current Mars missions? Do you know NOTHING about NASA's history? Not real familiar with the NASA Mariner missions? Obviously not if you are making comments like “Russian had a more successful space program.” Tell you what, do some research on the U.S.Military's Stealth Programs, NASA's exploration history, then get back to me. You've got quite a bit to learn.

]]> By: jjss http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-186973 jjss Wed, 03 Jun 2009 23:52:13 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/#comment-186973 djonk is a old chinees "ship" and I'm referring to their stealth ship.<br>Just look at ti Russian had a more successful space program. Yeah US went to moon first and that is true. But where did Sovjet send their probes. They where exploring Venus similarly to America exploring now decades later Mars. It is there just Google it. Their rocket and missile tech was at that time more powerful. Their airplanes have been more powerful. As I said that is not the present situation. But if they pulled of a stealth ship what else have they pulled of in secret. <br>Just check at the Mig 29 an old aircraft. Having many of the qualities of US 5th gen even not being a 5th gen plane it self. What about radar. I don't know for now but the radar system in Soviet planes used to be built without transistors. You laugh. But such a radar survives a electromagnetic shock wave. If you want to know how to produce a electromagnetic shock wave, there is several, but most efficient which could be used in warfare is to blow a nuke in space.<br>Why was the F15 built; it was built to meet the russian Mig-25, not comparable aircrafts though. The Mig however gets close to SR-71 speeds.<br>eg. check this outhttp://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread227983/pg1<br>spacehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program djonk is a old chinees “ship” and I'm referring to their stealth ship.
Just look at ti Russian had a more successful space program. Yeah US went to moon first and that is true. But where did Sovjet send their probes. They where exploring Venus similarly to America exploring now decades later Mars. It is there just Google it. Their rocket and missile tech was at that time more powerful. Their airplanes have been more powerful. As I said that is not the present situation. But if they pulled of a stealth ship what else have they pulled of in secret.
Just check at the Mig 29 an old aircraft. Having many of the qualities of US 5th gen even not being a 5th gen plane it self. What about radar. I don't know for now but the radar system in Soviet planes used to be built without transistors. You laugh. But such a radar survives a electromagnetic shock wave. If you want to know how to produce a electromagnetic shock wave, there is several, but most efficient which could be used in warfare is to blow a nuke in space.
Why was the F15 built; it was built to meet the russian Mig-25, not comparable aircrafts though. The Mig however gets close to SR-71 speeds.
eg. check this outhttp://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread227983/pg1
spacehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program

]]> By: TheRentschmeister http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-185840 TheRentschmeister Wed, 27 May 2009 00:25:58 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/#comment-185840 "Russia almost always do it first/better & cheaper." Really? How so? Provide examples of what Russia (or the Soviet Union) has done first/better & cheaper. What aircraft does Russia have with the similiar characteristics of the worlds First Fifth Generation Fighter, the F-22? <br>"Just look at the little djonk(?) they showed up when americans continued their rocket shield plans." To what are you refering? Are you referring to how the Russians threatened our allies in Poland when the Polish people asked to be the first country to receive the Missle Defense System? What "non-hostile" Nation would threaten a neighbor with Nuclear War when the neighboring country simply wants a weapon system that is DEFENSIVE ONLY? <br>"But their war machine has historically outperformed the american." Again, where is the evidence to support your conclusion? Where is this data? One has but to look at the Russian Navy compared to the United States Navy. There is NO comparison. The Nimitz Class carriers allow the United States to put an American Airfield along with the related support craft in ANY OCEAN ALONG ANY COAST ON THIS PLANET. The sheer force projection abilities of the United States Military is second to none. Whether you look at the technology fielded by our Armed Forces, whether it be the training of our Armed Forces (of which we gladly share with our allies at places like Nellis Air Force Base, NV, Fort Benning, GA, Fort Bragg, NC, etc.), the amount of money we spend to refine our weapons to minimize collateral damage, the evolving technologies that we develop (Stealth, Global Hawk, HULC, etc.) as we continually push the technological envelope of human understanding is second to none. I witnessed first hand how American military power easily handled the alleged "Powerful Military" of Iraq and their many Soviet made weapon systems. <br><br>Russia is trying to use their Oil Wealth to rebuild & retool their military. They're anxious (particularly the KGB's own, Mr.Putin) to bring the Russian Bear out of hibernation. The people of Georgia can attest to this fact. How we deal with the Russian threat or, more importantly, how we stand shoulder to shoulder with our allies in the new, young democracies that have risen from behind the Rusty Curtain will affect the lives of millions both now and those yet to be born. Russia is eager to reestablish itself as a power to be reckoned with, however for the time being, that bear doesn't have any teeth. “Russia almost always do it first/better & cheaper.” Really? How so? Provide examples of what Russia (or the Soviet Union) has done first/better & cheaper. What aircraft does Russia have with the similiar characteristics of the worlds First Fifth Generation Fighter, the F-22?
“Just look at the little djonk(?) they showed up when americans continued their rocket shield plans.” To what are you refering? Are you referring to how the Russians threatened our allies in Poland when the Polish people asked to be the first country to receive the Missle Defense System? What “non-hostile” Nation would threaten a neighbor with Nuclear War when the neighboring country simply wants a weapon system that is DEFENSIVE ONLY?
“But their war machine has historically outperformed the american.” Again, where is the evidence to support your conclusion? Where is this data? One has but to look at the Russian Navy compared to the United States Navy. There is NO comparison. The Nimitz Class carriers allow the United States to put an American Airfield along with the related support craft in ANY OCEAN ALONG ANY COAST ON THIS PLANET. The sheer force projection abilities of the United States Military is second to none. Whether you look at the technology fielded by our Armed Forces, whether it be the training of our Armed Forces (of which we gladly share with our allies at places like Nellis Air Force Base, NV, Fort Benning, GA, Fort Bragg, NC, etc.), the amount of money we spend to refine our weapons to minimize collateral damage, the evolving technologies that we develop (Stealth, Global Hawk, HULC, etc.) as we continually push the technological envelope of human understanding is second to none. I witnessed first hand how American military power easily handled the alleged “Powerful Military” of Iraq and their many Soviet made weapon systems.

Russia is trying to use their Oil Wealth to rebuild & retool their military. They're anxious (particularly the KGB's own, Mr.Putin) to bring the Russian Bear out of hibernation. The people of Georgia can attest to this fact. How we deal with the Russian threat or, more importantly, how we stand shoulder to shoulder with our allies in the new, young democracies that have risen from behind the Rusty Curtain will affect the lives of millions both now and those yet to be born. Russia is eager to reestablish itself as a power to be reckoned with, however for the time being, that bear doesn't have any teeth.

]]> By: jjss http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-185020 jjss Tue, 19 May 2009 20:47:00 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/#comment-185020 Gah I find the f-22, f35 as prof of american money talks n bullshit walks. Russia almost always do it first/better & cheaper.<br><br>Yep the f22 is impressive so is f35. But they are way late. And now with the "russian cold war" similar politics we cant be sure what they have in their pocket. Just look at the little djonk they showed up when americans continued their rocket shield plans. Which came as a complete chock to American agencies. And yes it had been sailing the seas.<br><br>I'm no russian fan in fact my country fought against them in WWII just a small european country. Still able to secure our independence from the big bear. <br><br>But their war machine has historically outperformed the american. Soviet fell... so did their war machine, now with Putin on the throne I don't doubt one second that they are back in business.<br><br>Well Putin is not officially on the throne any more. But Mother Russia isn't that official anymore. Gah I find the f-22, f35 as prof of american money talks n bullshit walks. Russia almost always do it first/better & cheaper.

Yep the f22 is impressive so is f35. But they are way late. And now with the “russian cold war” similar politics we cant be sure what they have in their pocket. Just look at the little djonk they showed up when americans continued their rocket shield plans. Which came as a complete chock to American agencies. And yes it had been sailing the seas.

I'm no russian fan in fact my country fought against them in WWII just a small european country. Still able to secure our independence from the big bear.

But their war machine has historically outperformed the american. Soviet fell… so did their war machine, now with Putin on the throne I don't doubt one second that they are back in business.

Well Putin is not officially on the throne any more. But Mother Russia isn't that official anymore.

]]> By: ModerateWarrior http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-172520 ModerateWarrior Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:05:04 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/#comment-172520 Add to this combat requirements issue a very thoughtful Atlantic magazine article out yesterday about Air Superiority in the first Gulf War and what is required now: <a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200903/air-force" rel="nofollow">http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200903/air-force</a> Think about the implications of our potential enemies out there having aircraft superior to our F-15/16/18. Then think that if outnumbered 2:1 against the very latest 4th Gen threat aircraft, the F-35 would only enjoy a 3:1 kill exchange ratio while the F-22 will enjoy a 30:1 kill exchange ratio. More F-22s now means more Air Superiority (or Air Dominance) for the next 30 years and enables the US/Allied F-35s the ability to swarm the strategic/tactical target sets as they were originally designed to do. Add to this combat requirements issue a very thoughtful Atlantic magazine article out yesterday about Air Superiority in the first Gulf War and what is required now: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200903/air-force Think about the implications of our potential enemies out there having aircraft superior to our F-15/16/18. Then think that if outnumbered 2:1 against the very latest 4th Gen threat aircraft, the F-35 would only enjoy a 3:1 kill exchange ratio while the F-22 will enjoy a 30:1 kill exchange ratio. More F-22s now means more Air Superiority (or Air Dominance) for the next 30 years and enables the US/Allied F-35s the ability to swarm the strategic/tactical target sets as they were originally designed to do.

]]> By: D. E.Rodriguez http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-172453 D. E.Rodriguez Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:02:47 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/#comment-172453 Thanks for the comments MW. I agree with most of your points. I just wish that funding wasn't so tight. <br><br>Dorian Thanks for the comments MW. I agree with most of your points. I just wish that funding wasn't so tight.

Dorian

]]> By: ModerateWarrior http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-172248 ModerateWarrior Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:16:13 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/#comment-172248 As you correctly imply: It is improper argument to attack F-35 as a fantastic multi-role aircraft of the next 35 years starting with its Operational deployment in 2013-15 in the AF, MC, and Navy. It will significantly outperform in speed, range, maintainability and maneuverability the jets it replaces: F-16, F-18, AV-8, F-111 and A-10. For only slightly more cost than these 4th Gen jets cost today it will also give us the necessary quality to survive the modern air war: stealth. However, that said, those (ATL, PAE, DepSecDef) who falsely argue that the F-35 can do the Air Superiority mission of the F-22 are either ignorant or in denial: the very Joint Requirements document that the F-35 was designed around calls for adequate numbers of the F-22 to perform the Air Superiority mission! As previous CSAFs and the current CSAF have said--the F-35 will defend itself well in air-to-air battle against 4th Gen threat fighters out there today, but IF outnumbered by these jets or when up against the new 5th gen fighters (XXJ and T-50) that the Chinese and Russians will field in 8-10 years, we and our allies will definitley NEED adequate numbers of the F-22 flying topcover for the F-35 force, performing the Air Superiority mission, or things will turn out poorly. As you correctly imply: It is improper argument to attack F-35 as a fantastic multi-role aircraft of the next 35 years starting with its Operational deployment in 2013-15 in the AF, MC, and Navy. It will significantly outperform in speed, range, maintainability and maneuverability the jets it replaces: F-16, F-18, AV-8, F-111 and A-10. For only slightly more cost than these 4th Gen jets cost today it will also give us the necessary quality to survive the modern air war: stealth. However, that said, those (ATL, PAE, DepSecDef) who falsely argue that the F-35 can do the Air Superiority mission of the F-22 are either ignorant or in denial: the very Joint Requirements document that the F-35 was designed around calls for adequate numbers of the F-22 to perform the Air Superiority mission! As previous CSAFs and the current CSAF have said–the F-35 will defend itself well in air-to-air battle against 4th Gen threat fighters out there today, but IF outnumbered by these jets or when up against the new 5th gen fighters (XXJ and T-50) that the Chinese and Russians will field in 8-10 years, we and our allies will definitley NEED adequate numbers of the F-22 flying topcover for the F-35 force, performing the Air Superiority mission, or things will turn out poorly.

]]> By: JSF Nieuws.nl » Kort internationaal JSF nieuws http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-172097 JSF Nieuws.nl » Kort internationaal JSF nieuws Mon, 09 Feb 2009 07:06:49 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/#comment-172097 [...] productie van de F-22 Raptor en de positie van de F-35 JSF in deze discussie onder de titel “F-22 and F-35 Not Mutually Exclusive”. Ze plaatst op evenwichtige wijze JSF skepticisme tegenover verheugde geluiden dat er goede [...] [...] productie van de F-22 Raptor en de positie van de F-35 JSF in deze discussie onder de titel “F-22 and F-35 Not Mutually Exclusive”. Ze plaatst op evenwichtige wijze JSF skepticisme tegenover verheugde geluiden dat er goede [...]

]]> By: kuru http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-172030 kuru Sun, 08 Feb 2009 15:37:49 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26288/f-22-and-f-35-not-mutually-exclusive/#comment-172030 f22 > f35 for now f22 > f35 for now

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