Might I suggest that you read this from Angry Bear? There's also some follow up in the comments.

I've expressed similar thoughts, too (include the bank bailout money in this) and note that it reaches the point where people will go beyond saving and investment in many cases and resume spending were that to happen. (Relative costs — it's like scrapping the more elaborate auto-pollution-related regs and programs and just buying older-vehicle owners a new vehicle instead. It's a huge expense!)

Certain Dems are exploiting this, as they have before.

* * *

“we're heading to the brink of a cliff”

Hype and sensationalism, an example of the exploitation mentioned above

“and have to do something”

Not true. And of course, doing anything rather than nothing does not follow.

Oh please. More like there aren't too many outside of the Dem leadership who are willing to go before the public to defend this mess. Not to mention that it suits the Dems just fine to give the GOP enough rope to hang themselves with by demonstrating that they don't have better alternative ideas.

There aren't a lot of Democrats making that argument, but there are liberals making it. Like Yglesias, Krugman, and Klein. I'm trying to be careful about the distinction between party Democrats and liberal thinkers. The latter are rarely listened to by the former.

Oh please. More like there aren't too many outside of the Dem leadership who are willing to go before the public to defend this mess. Not to mention that it suits the Dems just fine to give the GOP enough rope to hang themselves with by demonstrating that they don't have better alternative ideas.

The Republican bill is even worse…but it's up to Democrats to put pressure on Democrats to make a good bill, not point out that the Republicans are completely off the reservation.

It's a rare event when the spotlight turns to a liberal arguing for a better spending plan, and from what I read, it's not that there is a dearth of available voices. I'm not sure how to fix that situation and I think it's largely the fault of the media. Republican obstructionist voices are given so much prominence right now that liberal thinkers are only given a voice to support the passage of the bill.

The Republican bill is even worse…but it's up to Democrats to put pressure on Democrats to make a good bill, not point out that the Republicans are completely off the reservation.

There is a bad mix of both “shovel ready” and “long term” that don't create that many jobs nor operate on a long term strategic level.

I personally give Republican policies (which were eventually coopted by establishment Democrats) about 75-85% of the blame for the current problems. I think that the GOP isn't being constructive at all. But that doesn't mean that the Dems are leading us to do something right.

That article only discusses whether or not the Bush tax cuts paid for themselves. My point was that under some circumstances they do, other circumstances they don't- and the same goes for 'stimulatory' spending. Instead of clinging to dogmatic, partisan beliefs about one side or the other, people ought to consider what the circumstances are which would make it likely that a certain type of tax cut would help, and same for justifying the specific types of spending.

Sure makes me wish we had that money from the Iraq war back

So, double or nothing sounds good to you now?

You know, mortgage rates made borrowing for big houses look pretty good not too long ago. How's that going now?