Comments on: Pope Benedict XVI and the Benedict Arnold of the Church: Bishop Williamson http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:28:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: tradition http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/comment-page-1/#comment-174994 tradition Tue, 03 Mar 2009 22:23:12 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/#comment-174994 So when has the church paid Bishop Wiliamson a salary ? Get your facts straight , isnt that what he is on about , testimony of the truth! Bring the evidence and he will recant .He will do so publicly too . So when has the church paid Bishop Wiliamson a salary ? Get your facts straight , isnt that what he is on about , testimony of the truth! Bring the evidence and he will recant .He will do so publicly too .

]]> By: river http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/comment-page-1/#comment-171857 river Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:31:41 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/#comment-171857 I am not for sure i can express this with clarity. . .but i see lots of evidence of true gold here. . .The deep evidence that all of these malformed shadows of ignorance and grasping for power and position is seen with clarity by so many. . . Dr. E. I appreciate your stance on the darkness being exhibited by this group of men, at this time. . .Once again you show how to take a firm stance without becoming the mirror opposite. The Pope may chose as he wills,(that is what some Popes seem to do). But what seems important is Williamson with his bigotries, along with others like him have or are in the process of being defrocked by the true Church or a greater collective awareness. <br><br>How to face the dark without allowing it to snare one into being its reflection, that is what you show us Dr. E. My heart tears to read Ghostdreams account. Every since i was a child i thought the Catholic have the greatest of sacred symbols. You guys have the Sacred Heart in the form of Mary and Jesus, Whew! It does not get any better than that; Mary does not divide Her children up into good and bad, gay and straight. She does not make a distinction between good and bad faiths, race, or class. Mary and Jesus both historically Jews, embraced the whole darn world. The Sacred heart has no allure for egoic power. She does not prod her children with fear or justifications of violence. Ghost dream, hope you run to her, boys will be boys and don't give them the power to hurt your soul or heart. <br> <br>Mary is the tree that gives shade even to those, in the illusion of their actions, try to cut her down. <br><br>The old dinosaurs, war horses and senate bulls do not go gentle into the night. . .They buck and roar and throw up snot and dust often times before the light breaks through. . .I hold a dream, "this adversity is just the shadow of the Divine Mother's hand waiting to caress her beloved children." I am not for sure i can express this with clarity. . .but i see lots of evidence of true gold here. . .The deep evidence that all of these malformed shadows of ignorance and grasping for power and position is seen with clarity by so many. . . Dr. E. I appreciate your stance on the darkness being exhibited by this group of men, at this time. . .Once again you show how to take a firm stance without becoming the mirror opposite. The Pope may chose as he wills,(that is what some Popes seem to do). But what seems important is Williamson with his bigotries, along with others like him have or are in the process of being defrocked by the true Church or a greater collective awareness.

How to face the dark without allowing it to snare one into being its reflection, that is what you show us Dr. E. My heart tears to read Ghostdreams account. Every since i was a child i thought the Catholic have the greatest of sacred symbols. You guys have the Sacred Heart in the form of Mary and Jesus, Whew! It does not get any better than that; Mary does not divide Her children up into good and bad, gay and straight. She does not make a distinction between good and bad faiths, race, or class. Mary and Jesus both historically Jews, embraced the whole darn world. The Sacred heart has no allure for egoic power. She does not prod her children with fear or justifications of violence. Ghost dream, hope you run to her, boys will be boys and don't give them the power to hurt your soul or heart.

Mary is the tree that gives shade even to those, in the illusion of their actions, try to cut her down.

The old dinosaurs, war horses and senate bulls do not go gentle into the night. . .They buck and roar and throw up snot and dust often times before the light breaks through. . .I hold a dream, “this adversity is just the shadow of the Divine Mother's hand waiting to caress her beloved children.”

]]> By: archangel http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/comment-page-1/#comment-171851 archangel Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:15:36 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/#comment-171851 Dear Spirasol, ok, I followed you right to the end, and laughed out loud at what it must mean for any person to be pope. Goodness. I rmust espectfully decline. lol. BUT, I have been thinking in the last few days Spirasol about perhaps, like being President of the US, being pope must be a hugely difficult job full of collisions and near collisions, ESPecially, as groups who are opposed to each other vehemently try to colonize the leader. He's ours, not yours. Sort of reminds of playground. <br><br>But then, most things in politics remind of playground sociology... perhaps because like lord of the flies and animal farm and lord jim and all the rest, there's something of that 'we're lofty, but you're not' that somehow is misread or is played out only in undeveloped ways. I wonder what the use of the instinct is to make hierarchy. I dont have final conclusions... but I sense Spirasol, that just because we have x instinct, doesnt necessarily mean to use it raw, but to build something out of it, something useful<br><br>I loved hearing your story about being raised in Brasilian Catholic rituales y rites. And agree about your observation re the dearth of the mystical... nowadays ONLY 'the approved mystical" seems allowed. (I wrote about this at National Catholic Reporter online in my column, about the three outcomes a papal investigative committee can authorize about a 'visitation' etc. It's not pretty, neither in attitude nor in actual 'investigation." <br><br>I see the fear about mysticism in general in some. But the mystic is not irrational, rather moves in the rational and NON-rational worlds (non-rational meaning not only the observable consensual reality agreed upon by the larger ruling society). You've hit exactly the issue for institutions: If each soul might have their own unique, meaningful, but also contradictory (to dogma) experience of G!d.... well, for iinstitutionalized religion, that would pose grave difficulty... as it is antithetical to the structure of dogma... and many institutions have build their bones on the dogma of 'one way, and one way only.'<br><br>Just one last, with regard to social justice; the church is strong there, but only in persons on the ground. At the rarified air level, it is too often just weak ceremonial pronouncments. And we will imagine, find out soon, about how the last pope and the current one have tried to ally with George Bush behind closed doors. In terms of war, only more fire rained down. I wanted the popes to walk in the streets with las madres in Chile, to walk with santuario in El Salvador, to brave to walk in their white robes in the streets. Even in a bulletproof bubble. To be with the people, not over them. <br><br>we dream. continuuan.<br><br>dr.e Dear Spirasol, ok, I followed you right to the end, and laughed out loud at what it must mean for any person to be pope. Goodness. I rmust espectfully decline. lol. BUT, I have been thinking in the last few days Spirasol about perhaps, like being President of the US, being pope must be a hugely difficult job full of collisions and near collisions, ESPecially, as groups who are opposed to each other vehemently try to colonize the leader. He's ours, not yours. Sort of reminds of playground.

But then, most things in politics remind of playground sociology… perhaps because like lord of the flies and animal farm and lord jim and all the rest, there's something of that 'we're lofty, but you're not' that somehow is misread or is played out only in undeveloped ways. I wonder what the use of the instinct is to make hierarchy. I dont have final conclusions… but I sense Spirasol, that just because we have x instinct, doesnt necessarily mean to use it raw, but to build something out of it, something useful

I loved hearing your story about being raised in Brasilian Catholic rituales y rites. And agree about your observation re the dearth of the mystical… nowadays ONLY 'the approved mystical” seems allowed. (I wrote about this at National Catholic Reporter online in my column, about the three outcomes a papal investigative committee can authorize about a 'visitation' etc. It's not pretty, neither in attitude nor in actual 'investigation.”

I see the fear about mysticism in general in some. But the mystic is not irrational, rather moves in the rational and NON-rational worlds (non-rational meaning not only the observable consensual reality agreed upon by the larger ruling society). You've hit exactly the issue for institutions: If each soul might have their own unique, meaningful, but also contradictory (to dogma) experience of G!d…. well, for iinstitutionalized religion, that would pose grave difficulty… as it is antithetical to the structure of dogma… and many institutions have build their bones on the dogma of 'one way, and one way only.'

Just one last, with regard to social justice; the church is strong there, but only in persons on the ground. At the rarified air level, it is too often just weak ceremonial pronouncments. And we will imagine, find out soon, about how the last pope and the current one have tried to ally with George Bush behind closed doors. In terms of war, only more fire rained down. I wanted the popes to walk in the streets with las madres in Chile, to walk with santuario in El Salvador, to brave to walk in their white robes in the streets. Even in a bulletproof bubble. To be with the people, not over them.

we dream. continuuan.

dr.e

]]> By: spirasol http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/comment-page-1/#comment-171780 spirasol Fri, 06 Feb 2009 12:13:10 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/#comment-171780 My mother is Brasilian catholic and I was raised a catholic but in the US. In Brasil the Catholic church combines or melds with long practiced African vodoo, which for my taste, makes it more interesting. I left the Catholic church shortly after confirmation and have never looked back. I could never get over the amount of people who died as a result of religious wars. In my later years I have learned how the mysticism was stripped out of most religions, consequently resulting in boring sermons, empty churches and secular societies. My return to faith is loosely bound to a spirituality amassed from different origins no doubt, but I hold it dear nonetheless. <br><br>I once volunteered to work with the homeless for a prominent religious organization in England. I was struck by their "vows of poverty." The drove the best cars, drank the best scotch, had porno on demand, and inflicted their novitiates with master-slave like demands.<br><br>So every once in a while when a "nut" from some religions order is let loose, it reminds me of the reasons I left to begin with. But of coarse their are "nuts" on the supreme court, the congress, and other major institutions. And lord knows, some might chase me around holding a mirror so that I might see what type of fruit I am.<br><br>It does amaze me when the pope decides to show himself in public, how the people line up. Who follows the dictates of the church as it regards sex, contraception, abortion? Is not the Catholic church the most backward vis-a-vis female ministers, equal rights, gay rights, even justice for the poor? Should not the pope take a position about bombing innocent people, cluster bombs, etc. Why is he not interested in challenging Zionist lies? <br><br>Ah I know the solution: Dr. E for POPE! My mother is Brasilian catholic and I was raised a catholic but in the US. In Brasil the Catholic church combines or melds with long practiced African vodoo, which for my taste, makes it more interesting. I left the Catholic church shortly after confirmation and have never looked back. I could never get over the amount of people who died as a result of religious wars. In my later years I have learned how the mysticism was stripped out of most religions, consequently resulting in boring sermons, empty churches and secular societies. My return to faith is loosely bound to a spirituality amassed from different origins no doubt, but I hold it dear nonetheless.

I once volunteered to work with the homeless for a prominent religious organization in England. I was struck by their “vows of poverty.” The drove the best cars, drank the best scotch, had porno on demand, and inflicted their novitiates with master-slave like demands.

So every once in a while when a “nut” from some religions order is let loose, it reminds me of the reasons I left to begin with. But of coarse their are “nuts” on the supreme court, the congress, and other major institutions. And lord knows, some might chase me around holding a mirror so that I might see what type of fruit I am.

It does amaze me when the pope decides to show himself in public, how the people line up. Who follows the dictates of the church as it regards sex, contraception, abortion? Is not the Catholic church the most backward vis-a-vis female ministers, equal rights, gay rights, even justice for the poor? Should not the pope take a position about bombing innocent people, cluster bombs, etc. Why is he not interested in challenging Zionist lies?

Ah I know the solution: Dr. E for POPE!

]]> By: archangel http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/comment-page-1/#comment-171776 archangel Fri, 06 Feb 2009 08:33:36 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/#comment-171776 Dear Ghost; you can belong to el rio debajo del rio with the rest of us. Dont let a person who is differently sighted than you, turn you away from an incorruptible premise. Cardinal Ratzinger has indeed obstructed, in the sense of delayed for years and years, the investigations of sexual abuse by priests, the getting of children on women by priests, the secreting of serial pedophiles to other assignments after they devastated the young in their own parish, and silenced and exiled more people in his time than any before, including theologian Hans Kung, and as you mentioned, the highly original Matt Fox, as well as the incredibly gentle Father De Mello from India; There are hundreds who are no longer allowed, along with all who sided with the poor in the wars in El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala in place and in santuario movimiento. Yes, it is so. And painful to bear. But, I'd just gently suggest that is not the place to focus. Religiousity is not about the human, but the suprahuman, the mysteries, being good to others as one can manage, straining sometimes even. That humanitas, veritas, unitas of soul. I'd only remind that scar tissue is stronger than skin and more sensitive... and can be put to good use. Keep thinking on these things. Dont gel.<br><br>This is just my two cents worth, Ghost.<br><br>dr.e Dear Ghost; you can belong to el rio debajo del rio with the rest of us. Dont let a person who is differently sighted than you, turn you away from an incorruptible premise. Cardinal Ratzinger has indeed obstructed, in the sense of delayed for years and years, the investigations of sexual abuse by priests, the getting of children on women by priests, the secreting of serial pedophiles to other assignments after they devastated the young in their own parish, and silenced and exiled more people in his time than any before, including theologian Hans Kung, and as you mentioned, the highly original Matt Fox, as well as the incredibly gentle Father De Mello from India; There are hundreds who are no longer allowed, along with all who sided with the poor in the wars in El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala in place and in santuario movimiento. Yes, it is so. And painful to bear. But, I'd just gently suggest that is not the place to focus. Religiousity is not about the human, but the suprahuman, the mysteries, being good to others as one can manage, straining sometimes even. That humanitas, veritas, unitas of soul. I'd only remind that scar tissue is stronger than skin and more sensitive… and can be put to good use. Keep thinking on these things. Dont gel.

This is just my two cents worth, Ghost.

dr.e

]]> By: archangel http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/comment-page-1/#comment-171774 archangel Fri, 06 Feb 2009 08:20:57 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/#comment-171774 dear katt, thanks for your comments, and I'll hold to my opinion that he appears compromised. It is a challenge to write a blog article that must by its nature not be pages and pages long to explain all background thinking, but only hopefully the rudiments. But, I am glad you give me the opportunity in comments to say a bit more. There is so much more to say even so. <br><br>From reading his many writings, postulations, seeming rants and watching films of his carryings on, it appears his take re several groups, not Jews only, follows the same pattern: he distortion and misrepresentation far beyond the current scope of the msm's reportage on his bizarre remarks which are limited to the holocaust alone. There is far more to his longstanding issues. <br><br>There are dedicated bigots and visciously willful anti-Semites in the world... and my own families were unspeakably victimized by those dedicated to seeing others as not human... as my family is one of refugees and escapees from the slave labor camps of the Russian borders. <br><br>As I mentioned in the article, the man appears delusional and perseverative. This is only my opinion. Hatred of groups is sometimes a stand alone phenom, by choice, by people who are otherwise more or less rational. But sometimes the unoriginal and repetitive symptoms as described, are strong markers for a syndrome we call perseverative cognitive disorder, or a version of undifferentiated character disorder, which iis an illness we do not yet know the origins of-- although we suspect scrambled brain synapses, nor do we have a cure for such. This disorder has nothing to do with free thinking or free speech. Its features are well documented and do not vary nor relent... no matter what rational means are applied or offered. <br><br>dr.e dear katt, thanks for your comments, and I'll hold to my opinion that he appears compromised. It is a challenge to write a blog article that must by its nature not be pages and pages long to explain all background thinking, but only hopefully the rudiments. But, I am glad you give me the opportunity in comments to say a bit more. There is so much more to say even so.

From reading his many writings, postulations, seeming rants and watching films of his carryings on, it appears his take re several groups, not Jews only, follows the same pattern: he distortion and misrepresentation far beyond the current scope of the msm's reportage on his bizarre remarks which are limited to the holocaust alone. There is far more to his longstanding issues.

There are dedicated bigots and visciously willful anti-Semites in the world… and my own families were unspeakably victimized by those dedicated to seeing others as not human… as my family is one of refugees and escapees from the slave labor camps of the Russian borders.

As I mentioned in the article, the man appears delusional and perseverative. This is only my opinion. Hatred of groups is sometimes a stand alone phenom, by choice, by people who are otherwise more or less rational. But sometimes the unoriginal and repetitive symptoms as described, are strong markers for a syndrome we call perseverative cognitive disorder, or a version of undifferentiated character disorder, which iis an illness we do not yet know the origins of– although we suspect scrambled brain synapses, nor do we have a cure for such. This disorder has nothing to do with free thinking or free speech. Its features are well documented and do not vary nor relent… no matter what rational means are applied or offered.

dr.e

]]> By: Ghostdreams http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/comment-page-1/#comment-171767 Ghostdreams Fri, 06 Feb 2009 06:27:49 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/#comment-171767 Cardinal Ratzinger... <br>Oh ya. I remember this guy very well. <br>I was attending the Dignity Masses in downtown San Francisco the year (1986) the idiot put out the infamous "Rat Letter." <br>For years I had ignored the faith I'd been raised in and in 1985, after speaking with a member of Dignity (Dignity - a gay Catholic organization) I decided to give the Mass a re-visit and wound up staying. <br>I was in the midst of having a "celebration of faith" when the Pope's Rottweiler (aka Cardinal Ratzinger) released his letter "On the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons" ...<br>Which, by the way, is a RIDICULOUS name for the document, considering that his idea of "Pastoral Care for Homosexuals" seems to be no care at all and proceeds to call gay people "intrinsically evil" (intrinsically? Doesn't that mean one's inherent nature? Great word Cardinal .. so gay folks are pretty much born gay and gay is evil? Hmmmm) .. <br>A lot of people don't seem to know that the good Cardinal believes people don't have any choice in their sexual orientation. He's made it quite clear how he views that particular issue and I agree with him on this issue. I, too, believe that sexual orientation is not a choice. <br>However, I disagree with the idea that God makes people gay and then decides that the very nature that he/she gave them is evil...<br><br>If, as is taught by Catholic doctrine, God is all love and light and if the gospels are to make any sense what so ever i.e. Jesus dying and having to spend 3 days down below in order to shed the sins he bore for the human race .. why was that? Oh ya ..because God cannot abide sin in his/her presence so Jesus had to be cleansed of those sins before coming before his father .. then how the hell did God make people with an orientation that makes them INTRINSICALLY EVIL? That would mean that God created them evil in the first place. Does this follow any logic known to the human race? NOOooooo. <br>Think about it .. <br>God: "I'm going to make you a human being that I will love as my child and I am going to make you gay and then.. I AM GOING TO PUNISH YOU FOR IT FOREVEEEER!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" <br>This has GOT to be someone's idea of insanity somewhere in the world (mine at the very least). <br>But absurdities and illogic seem in abundance for Cardinal Ratzinger so .. *shrugs*<br>Back to the Dignity Mass...<br>My celebration of faith died prematurely and remains dead to this day because that person, Ratzinger, decided to put out one of the most hateful messages ever seen concerning gay persons ever published. <br>After going to St. Boniface/Dignity Mass for a year or so, it was announced at this one Sunday Mass that due to the Rat letter, the Bishop had forbidden St. Boniface to administer communion to gay folks and that Dignity was to be uh...looking for the right word here...eschewed, turned out, forgotten, fin, gone, arrivederci baby, and it was buh bye now for gay Catholics in San Francisco (and most everywhere else in the world for that matter). <br>A few years later he had Fr. Matthew Fox shut up then booted out of the Dominican order for Fox's failure to condemn gay folks. <br>THEN... oh man! The list is just endless.<br>I might make mention, did you notice the date of this insanity? 1986? Smack dab in the middle of the horrors of the AIDS epidemic (which is still a horror) and the good Cardinal decides to pull this number? I had lost five of my closest friends in a matter of two years and THIS is what Cardinal Ratzinger comes up with for us?<br>What a nice guy (not!). <br>Cardinal Ratzinger has built a career on gay bashing and I, frankly, don't see that as being a Catholic virtue. I was taught that hate and intolerance was not something that we, as Catholics, strive for but we should strive for the exact opposite. Those ridiculous notions such as love, kindness, caring, tolerance, and reaching out to those who need us. Perhaps those virtues seem quaint and silly in today's world, but I still value them and it seems to me that the current pope (Ratzinger) is in dire need of becoming reacquainted with them. <br>Then again, the nuns that taught me in school truly valued the teachings and love expressed by Pope John XXIII (the Pope that gave us Vatican II) which is a whole different mindset than today's Vatican seems to have. <br>BTW, I think Pope John XXIII was the biggest loss the church possibly ever had. :(<br>As for Williamson...<br>Here's another nice guy for ya (sarcasm intended) ..<br>A man who says things like, ""A woman can do a good imitation of handling ideas, but then she will not be thinking properly as a woman. Did this lawyeress check her hairdo before coming into court? If she did, she is a distracted lawyer. If she did not, she is one distorted woman."<br>Here we have a guy that doesn't believe in women going to college (Doc, that means YOU! You best beware of this man! grin), doesn't believe more than 200-300,000 Jewish folks were killed during the Holocaust (and none by poisonous gas, he seems sure of that and says so..ARGH!), doesn't believe in Vatican II, doesn't believe in women wearing pants....<br>BUT...<br>He DOES believe that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are ..get this ..authentic. <br>ROFL (hahahahahahaha... ohmigod .. unbelievable!). <br>(shaking head) ..<br>This man is a true WACKO of the worst kind (and I'm a wacko myself so I can call him a wacko - but I'm a nice wacko and he ...well, read just about anything he's said or written and you won't find "kindness" or "love" anywhere to be found in it - thus he is a NOT nice wacko). <br>Ya know, I remember reading about this guy about six months ago when looking up the term "bizarre Catholic sects" and thinking, "Usually, I disagree with the Catholic church these days but in this case I'm in total agreement. What a wack job!" I should have KNOWN they'd re-admit him with the Rottweiler now at the helm. I'm rather surprised this didn't happen sooner. <br>An aside here: Since they re-admitted Williamson into the church, you won't find him listed under the phrase I typed out just six months ago (bizarre Catholic sects). Seems that this decision to "embrace" Williamson on Pope Benedict's part has legitimized the man. <br>And, ain't it funny how something like that can change in a matter of hours, eh? <br>One day wacko, weirdo ex-communicant, next day "embraced brother." (rolls eyes) <br>Another day the church goes astray. <br>I am sad .. <br><br>Thank you for the info Doc. Crazed Vatican weirdness is a subject I never tire of hearing about. It makes me feel better or something.<br><br>I am sorry if I ranted a bit back there it's just ..RATZINGER. He just brings out the worst in me. <br>I should thank him. Due to him, I'm a godless heathen condemned to a lifetime of being myself. So, it could be worse, eh? heeh<br>Ghosty<br><br>Disclaimer: I love many, many Catholic people. It's just a very few that give me a headache such as the two mentioned in this article and if it wasn't clear, if not for the current Pope, I'd be a practicing Catholic today but what can one do when they tell you that you're not wanted and to go away? Storm the church? Storming churches just isn't my style. I'm much too sedate. Ta for now. :D Cardinal Ratzinger…
Oh ya. I remember this guy very well.
I was attending the Dignity Masses in downtown San Francisco the year (1986) the idiot put out the infamous “Rat Letter.”
For years I had ignored the faith I'd been raised in and in 1985, after speaking with a member of Dignity (Dignity – a gay Catholic organization) I decided to give the Mass a re-visit and wound up staying.
I was in the midst of having a “celebration of faith” when the Pope's Rottweiler (aka Cardinal Ratzinger) released his letter “On the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons” …
Which, by the way, is a RIDICULOUS name for the document, considering that his idea of “Pastoral Care for Homosexuals” seems to be no care at all and proceeds to call gay people “intrinsically evil” (intrinsically? Doesn't that mean one's inherent nature? Great word Cardinal .. so gay folks are pretty much born gay and gay is evil? Hmmmm) ..
A lot of people don't seem to know that the good Cardinal believes people don't have any choice in their sexual orientation. He's made it quite clear how he views that particular issue and I agree with him on this issue. I, too, believe that sexual orientation is not a choice.
However, I disagree with the idea that God makes people gay and then decides that the very nature that he/she gave them is evil…

If, as is taught by Catholic doctrine, God is all love and light and if the gospels are to make any sense what so ever i.e. Jesus dying and having to spend 3 days down below in order to shed the sins he bore for the human race .. why was that? Oh ya ..because God cannot abide sin in his/her presence so Jesus had to be cleansed of those sins before coming before his father .. then how the hell did God make people with an orientation that makes them INTRINSICALLY EVIL? That would mean that God created them evil in the first place. Does this follow any logic known to the human race? NOOooooo.
Think about it ..
God: “I'm going to make you a human being that I will love as my child and I am going to make you gay and then.. I AM GOING TO PUNISH YOU FOR IT FOREVEEEER!!! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!”
This has GOT to be someone's idea of insanity somewhere in the world (mine at the very least).
But absurdities and illogic seem in abundance for Cardinal Ratzinger so .. *shrugs*
Back to the Dignity Mass…
My celebration of faith died prematurely and remains dead to this day because that person, Ratzinger, decided to put out one of the most hateful messages ever seen concerning gay persons ever published.
After going to St. Boniface/Dignity Mass for a year or so, it was announced at this one Sunday Mass that due to the Rat letter, the Bishop had forbidden St. Boniface to administer communion to gay folks and that Dignity was to be uh…looking for the right word here…eschewed, turned out, forgotten, fin, gone, arrivederci baby, and it was buh bye now for gay Catholics in San Francisco (and most everywhere else in the world for that matter).
A few years later he had Fr. Matthew Fox shut up then booted out of the Dominican order for Fox's failure to condemn gay folks.
THEN… oh man! The list is just endless.
I might make mention, did you notice the date of this insanity? 1986? Smack dab in the middle of the horrors of the AIDS epidemic (which is still a horror) and the good Cardinal decides to pull this number? I had lost five of my closest friends in a matter of two years and THIS is what Cardinal Ratzinger comes up with for us?
What a nice guy (not!).
Cardinal Ratzinger has built a career on gay bashing and I, frankly, don't see that as being a Catholic virtue. I was taught that hate and intolerance was not something that we, as Catholics, strive for but we should strive for the exact opposite. Those ridiculous notions such as love, kindness, caring, tolerance, and reaching out to those who need us. Perhaps those virtues seem quaint and silly in today's world, but I still value them and it seems to me that the current pope (Ratzinger) is in dire need of becoming reacquainted with them.
Then again, the nuns that taught me in school truly valued the teachings and love expressed by Pope John XXIII (the Pope that gave us Vatican II) which is a whole different mindset than today's Vatican seems to have.
BTW, I think Pope John XXIII was the biggest loss the church possibly ever had. :(
As for Williamson…
Here's another nice guy for ya (sarcasm intended) ..
A man who says things like, “”A woman can do a good imitation of handling ideas, but then she will not be thinking properly as a woman. Did this lawyeress check her hairdo before coming into court? If she did, she is a distracted lawyer. If she did not, she is one distorted woman.”
Here we have a guy that doesn't believe in women going to college (Doc, that means YOU! You best beware of this man! grin), doesn't believe more than 200-300,000 Jewish folks were killed during the Holocaust (and none by poisonous gas, he seems sure of that and says so..ARGH!), doesn't believe in Vatican II, doesn't believe in women wearing pants….
BUT…
He DOES believe that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are ..get this ..authentic.
ROFL (hahahahahahaha… ohmigod .. unbelievable!).
(shaking head) ..
This man is a true WACKO of the worst kind (and I'm a wacko myself so I can call him a wacko – but I'm a nice wacko and he …well, read just about anything he's said or written and you won't find “kindness” or “love” anywhere to be found in it – thus he is a NOT nice wacko).
Ya know, I remember reading about this guy about six months ago when looking up the term “bizarre Catholic sects” and thinking, “Usually, I disagree with the Catholic church these days but in this case I'm in total agreement. What a wack job!” I should have KNOWN they'd re-admit him with the Rottweiler now at the helm. I'm rather surprised this didn't happen sooner.
An aside here: Since they re-admitted Williamson into the church, you won't find him listed under the phrase I typed out just six months ago (bizarre Catholic sects). Seems that this decision to “embrace” Williamson on Pope Benedict's part has legitimized the man.
And, ain't it funny how something like that can change in a matter of hours, eh?
One day wacko, weirdo ex-communicant, next day “embraced brother.” (rolls eyes)
Another day the church goes astray.
I am sad ..

Thank you for the info Doc. Crazed Vatican weirdness is a subject I never tire of hearing about. It makes me feel better or something.

I am sorry if I ranted a bit back there it's just ..RATZINGER. He just brings out the worst in me.
I should thank him. Due to him, I'm a godless heathen condemned to a lifetime of being myself. So, it could be worse, eh? heeh
Ghosty

Disclaimer: I love many, many Catholic people. It's just a very few that give me a headache such as the two mentioned in this article and if it wasn't clear, if not for the current Pope, I'd be a practicing Catholic today but what can one do when they tell you that you're not wanted and to go away? Storm the church? Storming churches just isn't my style. I'm much too sedate. Ta for now. :D

]]> By: kat99611 http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/comment-page-1/#comment-171764 kat99611 Fri, 06 Feb 2009 06:10:13 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/26238/pope-benedict-xvi-and-the-benedict-arnold-of-the-churchbishop-williamson/#comment-171764 Having read this post several times, I can't get past a troubling feeling of apologia by the author for this anti-semitic Bishop. Dr. Estes appears to be minimizing Williamson's comments by calling them 'daft' and 'horrible-thing-that-isn't-true' but most especially, referring to the 'unintended...consequence' of his words. This man will know full well that his words will be heard by those on the extreme edge and that violence will result. To suggest that Williamson is naive or that he is less culpable for his anti-semitism than skinheads and the like, is wrong. Having read this post several times, I can't get past a troubling feeling of apologia by the author for this anti-semitic Bishop. Dr. Estes appears to be minimizing Williamson's comments by calling them 'daft' and 'horrible-thing-that-isn't-true' but most especially, referring to the 'unintended…consequence' of his words. This man will know full well that his words will be heard by those on the extreme edge and that violence will result. To suggest that Williamson is naive or that he is less culpable for his anti-semitism than skinheads and the like, is wrong.

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