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	<title>Comments on: Peace? Plan?</title>
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		<title>By: schraubd</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26134/peace-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-171311</link>
		<dc:creator>schraubd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 19:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Tell me: If the Israeli government voluntarily ceded parts of East Jerusalem to a Palestinian state, you would &quot;lay down your life&quot; to stop it? You&#039;d take up arms against the Israeli government?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Israel is not &quot;entitled&quot; to keep the West Bank and Gaza Strip -- not unless it is willing to give the residents full voting rights to exercise however they wish. It is not &quot;entitled&quot; to keep another people in a permanent state of dispossession and subordination. Israel can be (a) Jewish (b) democratic (c) in control of the West Bank and Gaza strip -- pick two. I pick &quot;a&quot; and &quot;b&quot;, without hesitation. Which do you choose?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And the settlers? Some, I&#039;m sure, are nice enough folks, who just move for the open air and the tax breaks. Others, though, I &lt;a href=&quot;http://dsadevil.blogspot.com/2009/01/no-space-for-apostates.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;refuse to even consider Jews&lt;/a&gt; -- they are apostates to the religion and deserve excommunication. Telling me that these folks are Jewish is supposed to do what -- inspire solidarity? Hardly. It merely makes me furious that they are soiling the name of my faith.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And finally: this is not a &quot;plan&quot;. This is a desired end-state. There is no indication over how you plan to &lt;i&gt;get there&lt;/i&gt;. Does Egypt even &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; Gaza back? Who knows! Do the Palestinians who live in Gaza want to live under Egyptian rule? Who cares! Where do you say how we&#039;re going to induce the Palestinians to accept these borders, or why they would have any incentive to accept these borders? Is it simply through threat of pain? Nor is there any analysis over whether a state on that little amount of land (I&#039;m guessing that it&#039;d be roughly a quarter of the size of Israel) would be remotely viable. I&#039;m guessing it&#039;s way too much to ask whether such borders would be &lt;i&gt;just&lt;/i&gt; to the Palestinian inhabitants, particularly of the areas of the West Bank Israel would presumably annex without their consent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tell me: If the Israeli government voluntarily ceded parts of East Jerusalem to a Palestinian state, you would &#8220;lay down your life&#8221; to stop it? You&#39;d take up arms against the Israeli government?</p>
<p>Israel is not &#8220;entitled&#8221; to keep the West Bank and Gaza Strip &#8212; not unless it is willing to give the residents full voting rights to exercise however they wish. It is not &#8220;entitled&#8221; to keep another people in a permanent state of dispossession and subordination. Israel can be (a) Jewish (b) democratic (c) in control of the West Bank and Gaza strip &#8212; pick two. I pick &#8220;a&#8221; and &#8220;b&#8221;, without hesitation. Which do you choose?</p>
<p>And the settlers? Some, I&#39;m sure, are nice enough folks, who just move for the open air and the tax breaks. Others, though, I <a href="http://dsadevil.blogspot.com/2009/01/no-space-for-apostates.html" rel="nofollow">refuse to even consider Jews</a> &#8212; they are apostates to the religion and deserve excommunication. Telling me that these folks are Jewish is supposed to do what &#8212; inspire solidarity? Hardly. It merely makes me furious that they are soiling the name of my faith.</p>
<p>And finally: this is not a &#8220;plan&#8221;. This is a desired end-state. There is no indication over how you plan to <i>get there</i>. Does Egypt even <i>want</i> Gaza back? Who knows! Do the Palestinians who live in Gaza want to live under Egyptian rule? Who cares! Where do you say how we&#39;re going to induce the Palestinians to accept these borders, or why they would have any incentive to accept these borders? Is it simply through threat of pain? Nor is there any analysis over whether a state on that little amount of land (I&#39;m guessing that it&#39;d be roughly a quarter of the size of Israel) would be remotely viable. I&#39;m guessing it&#39;s way too much to ask whether such borders would be <i>just</i> to the Palestinian inhabitants, particularly of the areas of the West Bank Israel would presumably annex without their consent.</p>
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		<title>By: Holly_in_Cincinnati</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/26134/peace-plan/comment-page-1/#comment-171302</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly_in_Cincinnati</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>David, I have worked for peace in the Middle East since long before you were born and continue to do so today. Israel is entititled to keep both the West Bank and Gaza but may cede portions thereof for shalom bayit, the sake of peace. Gaza should return to Egypt. The ONLY viable Palestinian state will be in a portion of the West Bank far less than the 1967 borders and will not include one square centimeter of Jerusalem. I am willing to sacrifice my life to prevent the re-division of Jerusalem and am certain that hundreds of thousands of American Jews and millions of American Christians feel the same way. Jerusalem not only must not be divided, it needs a significant buffer zone between it and the future Palestinian state. The Palestinians can have all of Hebron, the neighbors are nasty and the holy sites are likely fakes anyway.  Ramallah must be moved to the east so that it is in the future Palestinian state. Bethlehem? I&#039;m not attached to it but I&#039;m sure that most Christians don&#039;t want it in the future Palestinian state. Please realize that most West Bank &#039;settlers&#039; are Jews just like you and me, nice well-educated people, many American and &lt;br&gt;Canadian. Settlements will be evacuated as decided in a final agreement and not before, unless Israel chooses to unilaterally &#039;disengage&#039; from from part of the WB just as it did from Gaza (which I supported).  I suspect that a &#039;final agreement&#039; will never happen but a unilateral disengagement will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, I have worked for peace in the Middle East since long before you were born and continue to do so today. Israel is entititled to keep both the West Bank and Gaza but may cede portions thereof for shalom bayit, the sake of peace. Gaza should return to Egypt. The ONLY viable Palestinian state will be in a portion of the West Bank far less than the 1967 borders and will not include one square centimeter of Jerusalem. I am willing to sacrifice my life to prevent the re-division of Jerusalem and am certain that hundreds of thousands of American Jews and millions of American Christians feel the same way. Jerusalem not only must not be divided, it needs a significant buffer zone between it and the future Palestinian state. The Palestinians can have all of Hebron, the neighbors are nasty and the holy sites are likely fakes anyway.  Ramallah must be moved to the east so that it is in the future Palestinian state. Bethlehem? I&#39;m not attached to it but I&#39;m sure that most Christians don&#39;t want it in the future Palestinian state. Please realize that most West Bank &#39;settlers&#39; are Jews just like you and me, nice well-educated people, many American and <br />Canadian. Settlements will be evacuated as decided in a final agreement and not before, unless Israel chooses to unilaterally &#39;disengage&#39; from from part of the WB just as it did from Gaza (which I supported).  I suspect that a &#39;final agreement&#39; will never happen but a unilateral disengagement will.</p>
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