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Conservatives And Liberals On The Presidency

Posted by PATRICK EDABURN in At TMV.
Jan 12th, 2009 | Comments

Earlier today I had a rather interesting discussion with a liberal friend of mine. While we sometimes disagree on political issues (and sometimes agree) we remain good friends who enjoy debating with each other.

One thing we particularly enjoy is discussing the more idiotic behaviors of the extremists on both sides of the political spectrum. By extremists we mean not the complete nutjobs living on compounds in the desert but rather the more radical aspects just outside the mainstream. The people who end up on CNN or Fox looking like fools.

Today’s topic dealt with liberal attitudes towards President Bush and conservative ones towards President Obama. We both agreed that each side is equally capable of vitriol and that both sides have let loose with some pretty low blows against the guy they don’t like.

But my friend raised the point that as he saw it for some reason the liberals seem a little harsher in their actions. This is not to say that both sides are not disrespectful but for some reason the left (and again here we mean the hard left, not the mainstream left) seem to be a bit more willing to be fairly contemptuous of the other guy.

After a long debate we came to the conculsion that this probably reflects the internal makeup of what is a liberal and what is a conservative. By definition a liberal tends to be something of an iconoclast, a rebel, someone who pushes against the establishment while conservatives tend to support these institutions.

This is not to say that liberals don’t support our basic system of government or that conservatives don’t show contempt from time to time, but as a rule they tend to fall into the categories above. As a result, when a conservative goes up against Obama his feelings are directed at the person while he has some level of respect (perhaps subconcious) for the the office.

The liberal on the other hand has issues with both the man and the office (indeed he has those feelings about the office even if he likes the person). Thus they are more likely to do the kind of things we saw in 2001 and 2005.

Since this conclusion was arrived at in a discussion between a fairly solid liberal (my friend) and an at least right leaning centrist (me) I wondered what the rest of you thought ?

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mikkel

I think the best thing to do is wait 3-4 years and revisit this comparison. I don't remember the secret service having to tell Gore, Kerry or Obama to turn down their campaign rhetoric because it was causing a spike in death threats against their opponent. Also at the 04 convention they had the purple heart stickers and every Democratic candidate since forever has been called an elitist that is trying to hoodwink the people and will be a pansy in the face of enemies and we'll all die.

I'm not sure what "hard" left refers to, but some of the statements that were attributed to being hard left turned out not to be or came true: the Iraq War was for oil (a view shared by Comrade Greenspan), the US is torturing people, there is domestic spying, the Republican party is being coopted by religious groups, etc.

While I agree with your thoughts about the emphasis on respect for institution, part of the anger is that the perceptions were right and yet no one cares or acknowledges it. The other part is that the difference between indecency and vulgarity. I think the "hard left" tends to be more vulgar and that gets more attention and creates the perception of "harshness" while the "hard right" can be very indecent but civil. Like Ken Blackwell calmly explaining that homosexuals are exactly like arsonists, or if we let there be gay marriage then people will have sex with animals, because they are totally the same...he didn't swear but that's inherently indecent position. Same thing with using Obama's middle name in the way they did. In fact the whole Palin shtick at one point was almost directly calling Obama a terrorist, but in very mealy terms. And she was a candidate!

Don Quijote

Today’s topic dealt with liberal attitudes towards President Bush and conservative ones towards President Obama. We both agreed that each side is equally capable of vitriol and that both sides have let loose with some pretty low blows against the guy they don’t like.

But my friend raised the point that as he saw it for some reason the liberals seem a little harsher in their actions. This is not to say that both sides are not disrespectful but for some reason the left (and again here we mean the hard left, not the mainstream left) seem to be a bit more willing to be fairly contemptuous of the other guy.

The difference between Bush & Obama is really simple, one got elected by one vote onthe Supreme Court, the other won 365 Electoral votes and 53% of popular vote, a small but notable difference.

Harsher? Liberals? You're kidding right?

Let's see, Clinton got a blow job, and Conservatives impeached him. Bush lied to start a war, as a consequences of which millions of people were turned into refugees, hundreds of thousand died and a country was destroyed, the so called Liberal did not even censure him.
Reagan and Bush Sr. ran their own foreign policy ( Iran-Contra ) in Central America in total contempt of the Congress(Boland Amendment) causing the deaths of tens of thousands and only a couple of low level flunkies were prosecuted ( a few of which showed up in the Bush administration Elliott Abrams, Otto Reich, John Poindexter ), no one was impeached.

So let's get real here, Republicans have been given free reign to do whatever they wanted to do for the last thirty years, and they did, the results are in, the wealthy are wealthier than ever, the middle and working classes are no better off than they were thirty years ago, the social contract has been shredded and the sacred constitution has been used by the Republicans to wipe their asses.

If anything Democrats/Liberals have been far to respectful of the office and particularly of the office holder.

How can I put this delicately? Oh, Yeah, your friend is an idiot.

Oh and Clinton left office with 60% approval rating despite being impeached and being the best Republican in the White House since Eisenhower, Bush will leave office with a 28% approval rating (proof that 28% of this country is fucking insane).

D. E.Rodriguez

Patrick:

It is very kind of you to invite discussion on your "observations." It would therefore be helpful to gain some additional insight into some of your assumptions. For example:

What would you call "idiotic behavior" Some examples? Are some of us posting or commenting on TMV guilty of this?

What do you consider " the more radical aspects just outside the mainstream."? A little more specific than "The people who end up on CNN or Fox looking like fools."

On what do you base your opinion that " the liberals seem a little harsher in their actions" and that "for some reason the left (and again here we mean the hard left, not the mainstream left) seem to be a bit more willing to be fairly contemptuous of the other guy."

"By definition a liberal tends to be something of an iconoclast, a rebel, someone who pushes against the establishment while conservatives tend to support these institutions." By whose "definition?" I thought, au contraire, that Conservatives were traditionally against "Big Government" and institutions? "Eliminate the Education Department," etc.

"As a result, when a conservative goes up against Obama his feelings are directed at the person while he has some level of respect (perhaps subconcious) for the the office." We will certainly have the chance to see if you are right once Obama occupies "the office" of the President. So far, I have not seen such respect from Conservative "icons" (Limbaugh, Hannity, et al.) for "the office" of the president-elect, or the president-elect himself.

"The liberal on the other hand has issues with both the man and the office (indeed he has those feelings about the office even if he likes the person). Thus they are more likely to do the kind of things we saw in 2001 and 2005."

What "things" did "liberals" do in 2001 and 2005?

Finally, whom would you call a "liberal" and whom a "Democrat"?

Please don't take my questions as personally critical. I have always been interested as to why some have such preconceived notions about both Conservatives and "liberals"

GeorgeSorwell

But my friend raised the point that as he saw it for some reason the liberals seem a little harsher in their actions.

Even liberals know they're just a bunch of meanies!!

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