Quote Of The Day: The Difference Between Israel And Hamas

Posted by JOE GANDELMAN, Editor-In-Chief in At TMV.
Dec 31st, 2008 | 24 responses

The international news-related quote of the day comes from Michael van der Galien at Poligazette:

I’ve had numerous discussions with people, mostly fellow Muslims, in recent days about the Israeli attacks on Gaza and the civilian victims of these bombings. As these people point out to me, purposefully killing innocent people – especially children – is a major crime against humanity and it is forbidden in the Qur’an: killing children is one of the worst crimes imaginable. As the Qur’an says, ‘he who kills one innocent, it is as if he killed the whole of mankind.’

Since children are the most innocent human beings in the world, killing them is a major sin and crime: both in Islam and according to secular law.

However, one should not only look at whether children are killed or not, one should also consider the intention of the killer: did they mean to kill the child or did they do everything in their power (except for not defending themselves and waiting to be killed themselves) to prevent the deaths?

In the case of Israel and Hamas, the difference between both sides should be clear to everyone with half a brain. Israel tries not to kill innocent people, but sadly some die nonetheless (collateral damage). Hamas, on the other hand, purposefully kills innocent Israelis and the terrorist group purposefully uses children and other innocent individuals as a human shield.

See, for instance, this video:

Go to the link to see the video and read the entire post.

24 Responses to “Quote Of The Day: The Difference Between Israel And Hamas”

1. Don Quijote says:

   December 31, 2008 at 2:02 pm

   In the case of Israel and Hamas, the difference between both sides should be clear to everyone with half a brain. Israel tries not to kill innocent people, but sadly some die nonetheless (collateral damage).

   Horse Shit!!!

   Lebanon and Israel – Children and Armed Conflict

   The situation in Lebanon

   The conflict involving Lebanon and Israel which began on 12 July 2006 has resulted in more than 1,109 Lebanese civilians killed and 4,405 injured, and 43 Israeli civilians killed, including 7 children, and 200 civilians injured. It is estimated that one third of the dead and wounded in Lebanon are children. Further, on 30 July, the Israeli air force bombed the village of Qana, in southern Lebanon, killing 28 civilians, including 16 children. On several occasions, Israeli forces attacked individual vehicles and convoys of civilians fleeing their villages after Israeli warnings that the villages would be bombed.

   About 975,000 people, constituting approximately one quarter of the Lebanese population, were displaced during the hostilities. More than a third of these are reported to be children. As at 30 September 2006, 200,000 people had still not yet been able to return to their homes, while others had returned to their destroyed homes and villages. It is estimated that 30,000 homes were destroyed throughout the country, particularly in southern Lebanon and the suburbs of Beirut.

   During the conflict, indiscriminate Hezbollah rocket attacks in northern Israel killed seven children. A large number of civilians in northern Israel, including a significant proportion of children, were also displaced, having sought safety further south or spent lengthy amounts of time in crowded shelters. Further, the Hezbollah rocket attacks also damaged and destroyed at least 6,000 homes as well as over 30 schools and day-care centres.

   The war also caused extensive damage to schools and hospitals in Lebanon. In Baalbek, the main hospital, with an estimated population of 80,000, was reportedly severely damaged during ground and air military operations in north-east Lebanon. In southern Lebanon, Ghandour hospital in Nabatiyeh was also extensively damaged. All hospitals in the affected areas are also encountering serious shortages of drugs, fuel, electricity and water supplies. Rapid assessments of the losses in the education sector indicate that between 40 and 50 schools were totally destroyed, while around 300 schools need repair.

   Children in Lebanon were also denied access to humanitarian assistance owing to an Israeli military blockade of Lebanon’s borders, seaports, bombing of roads and Beirut’s airport. Bombardments of electricity plants and water bores also resulted in power cuts and water shortages, increasing food and health insecurity of children particularly.

   Since the cessation of hostilities on 14 August until 28 September 2006, the presence of a large number of unexploded munitions, including an estimated 1.2 million cluster bombs, 90 per cent of which were apparently fired in the last three days of the conflict, poses a special threat to children by heavily contaminating the destroyed infrastructure, school grounds and agricultural lands.

   If you care about children, you do not destroy schools, you do not bomb hospitals and more importantly you do not drop cluster bombs like they were going out of style.
2. Rudi says:

   December 31, 2008 at 4:19 pm

   The Qassam rockets have no guidance system. While Hamas does kill a small number of innocent children, these rockets are very inaccurate. However, the GPS and laser guided bombs, many supplied from the US, are accurate to within a few feet, when dropped from 30,000 feet.
   Qassam:
   

   Thus, the laws of physics, as well as the known performance characteristics of the rocket, are all one has to “aim” these rockets. At its maximum range of some 20 kilometers, the most common rocket (9M22) with the basic high explosive/fragmentation (M-21-OF) warhead is only accurate within a rectangle of 336 meters by 160 meters. In other words, from its aim point, the rocket could land anywhere within a rectangle of approximately 54,000 square meters.

   JDAM:
   

   In its most accurate mode, the JDAM system will provide a minimum weapon accuracy CEP of 13 meters or less when a GPS signal is available, though Boeing and the Air Forces report less than 10 meters CEP in testing. If the GPS signal is jammed or lost, the JDAM can still achieve a 30 meter CEP or less for free flight times up to 100 seconds.[9]

   GBU:
   http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/…
   http://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/rtnwcm/gro…
   Guided munition CEP=3.6ft.
   Unguided munition CEP=310ft.
3. EEllis says:

   December 31, 2008 at 5:10 pm

   The difference is that Israel attacks “military” targets they do not target civilian populations. If someone is using civilian populations or infrastructure to “hide” military operations then it is they, not the side who strikes at them, who puts civilians at risk. This is a well known and established part of law. Hamas and other organizations actively target civilian populations. There is a difference. You can be sympathetic to Palestinian plight and still aknowlage the truth.
4. GeorgeSorwell says:

   December 31, 2008 at 5:26 pm

   The leadership of Hamas is perfectly willing–perfectly eager, in fact–to get Palestinian civilians killed.
5. MichaelvdGalien says:

   December 31, 2008 at 6:08 pm

   George and EEllis: that is precisely my point. Hamas is purposefully sacrificing civilians, including children, for their 'cause' (this cause, it has to be said, is not just the creation of a Palestinian state under Islamist rule but also the destruction of Israel; it's in their founding covenant). These victims of Hamas are then declared 'martyrs' (shaheed), and their family and relatives are told that they will be praised in heaven, etc.

   Schools and mosques are attacked, or may be attacked, because Hamas hides weapons, fighters and ammunition in those buildings. If these buildings are not destroyed, Israelis believe that any action would be rendered useless simply because Hamas would recover from Israeli attacks in a few days time.
6. Don Quijote says:

   December 31, 2008 at 7:21 pm

   Israelis do not want to kill innocent yet may do so accidentally, Hamas purposefully and willfully kills and gets civilians willfully and purposefully killed.

   Horse Shit!!!

   The Israelis don't give a f*ck, if they did they wouldn't use Cluster Bombs after they know they have lost the battle.

   Haaretz – IDF commander: We fired more than a million cluster bombs in Lebanon

   “What we did was insane and monstrous, we covered entire towns in cluster bombs,” the head of an IDF rocket unit in Lebanon said regarding the use of cluster bombs and phosphorous shells during the war.

   Quoting his battalion commander, the rocket unit head stated that the IDF fired around 1,800 cluster bombs, containing over 1.2 million cluster bomblets.

   In addition, soldiers in IDF artillery units testified that the army used phosphorous shells during the war, widely forbidden by international law. According to their claims, the vast majority of said explosive ordinance was fired in the final 10 days of the war.

   The rocket unit commander stated that Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) platforms were heavily used in spite of the fact that they were known to be highly inaccurate.

   MLRS is a track or tire carried mobile rocket launching platform, capable of firing a very high volume of mostly unguided munitions. The basic rocket fired by the platform is unguided and imprecise, with a range of about 32 kilometers. The rockets are designed to burst into sub-munitions at a planned altitude in order to blanket enemy army and personnel on the ground with smaller explosive rounds.

   The use of such weaponry is controversial mainly due to its inaccuracy and ability to wreak great havoc against indeterminate targets over large areas of territory, with a margin of error of as much as 1,200 meters from the intended target to the area hit.

   The cluster rounds which don't detonate on impact, believed by the United Nations to be around 40% of those fired by the IDF in Lebanon, remain on the ground as unexploded munitions, effectively littering the landscape with thousands of land mines which will continue to claim victims long after the war has ended.

   Because of their high level of failure to detonate, it is believed that there are around 500,000 unexploded munitions on the ground in Lebanon. To date 12 Lebanese civilians have been killed by these mines since the end of the war.

   Cluster bombs: a war's perilous aftermath

   The Zayoun family alone accounts for three of a postwar Lebanese toll that today stands at 184 wounded and 30 dead.

   Father Mohammed blames himself for picking up the small metal cylinder and putting it in his bag while cutting thyme in a field that had been marked with red and white warning tape.

   Just after nightfall, with the house lit only by a few candles, his 4-year-old daughter Aya Zayoun found the cluster bomb in her father's bag outside. She took it inside to the living room and handed it to her older sister, Rasha, who thought it was a toy bell.

   …
   Still, the UN says that nearly all the Israeli cluster bombs were fired in the last three days of the conflict, after a UN ceasefire deal had been reached, but before it came into effect – thereby yielding little military advantage. The timing of the Israeli strikes is “definitely questionable,” says Clark.

   A nice litlle F**k You present to the Lebanese, because we can and the Americans will cover our asses at the UN and excuse anything we do.
7. Don Quijote says:

   December 31, 2008 at 8:08 pm

   BBC – Peres 'regrets Gaza bombing mistake'

   The attack targeted a leading member of the militant group Hamas, Sheikh Salah Shahada, who was among those killed when an F-16 jet dropped a one-tonne guided bomb on the apartment block where he was staying.

   Obviously the action of a country that is really going out of it's way not to kill innocent bystanders.
8. Donnajean says:

   December 31, 2008 at 10:18 pm

   Right now in Gaza we have over 300 deaths compared to 4 in Israel. I've always thought bombing in largely civilian areas is a war crime, as is rocket attacks on a largely civilian areas. The bigness of the crime to me depends on the number of civilians killed. The bombing is killing far more civilians indiscriminately, than the rockets are 'on purpose'. Hence Israel is guilty of the larger war crime.
   I very much agree with Don Quijote and I haven't forgotten the bombing of Lebanon either.
9. Jim_Satterfield says:

   January 1, 2009 at 1:04 am

   Yep, the Israelis have major, major problems. They have done some really horrendous things. But DQ and Donnajean seem like such staunch defenders of Hamas that I just have to add this.

   I notice that none of those defending Hamas so vociferously care to address the fact that Hamas uses civilians as a shield on purpose. They also will probably not admit that Hamas had to know that continuing those missile launches would result in the Israeli government having to strike back. They purposefully provoked an attack that had to kill civilians. Are you really seriously suggesting that the Israeli government do absolutely nothing while missiles are fired on their citizens? And before you bother saying it…it doesn't matter how inaccurate the Kassam missiles are. Consider this article with some more recent information. The Kassam rocket is not the only weapon Hamas has. They also have missiles made in Iran and China. Since Israel withdrew from the Gaza strip in 2005 there have been 6300 rockets and mortar rounds fired from there into Israel. How would you like to live under that threat.
10. EEllis says:

    January 1, 2009 at 7:53 am

    DQ you forgot to mention that the cluster bomb were fired into areas near Israel were civilian populations are thin (compared to other areas in Lebanon with much greater population densities were if they just wanted civilian casualties they could do better) but raiding parties often travel to enter Israel. Like the one that captured the solders that caused the most recent invasion. I've yet to see anyone say here that Israel is perfect or always right. Ignoring realities just makes you look ignorant and will lead to no one with an ounce of sense believing in your point of view.

    “The attack targeted a leading member of the militant group Hamas, Sheikh Salah Shahada, who was among those killed when an F-16 jet dropped a one-tonne guided bomb on the apartment block where he was staying. “

    Good example. If they would that bomb in an isolated structure then it is legal and well within international norm to use it if he is hiding in civilian areas. If not them everyone would of course just hide in civilian areas. It's inconceivable that you can give anyone that kind of get out of everything free card. That Israel has a responsibility to care more about civilians in Palestine than Hamas, the govt of Palestine, is absurd. I understand why, I even have sympathy for the Palestinian situation, but get real.
11. Don Quijote says:

    January 1, 2009 at 9:52 am

    you forgot to mention that the cluster bomb were fired into areas near Israel were civilian populations are thin (compared to other areas in Lebanon with much greater population densities were if they just wanted civilian casualties they could do better) but raiding parties often travel to enter Israel.

    You forgot to mention the reason why the population is thinner in that part of Lebanon than in others. Might the 1982 invasion and occupation of Lebanon have anything to do with it?

    <shrugs shoulders>
    As far as Israeli supporters in the US goes, Israel can do no wrong, despite 40 years of illegal occupation, land theft, massacres, and various violation of human rights and it's the fault of those dirty filthy disgusting Palestinians.

    OTOH if the the Palestinians are good little boys and girls and don't fight back, the little land they have will be stolen from them, they will live under occupation and be non-persons in the land in which their ancestors have lived for hundred of years, if they fight back with whatever weapons they can get their hands on the little land they have will be stolen from them, they will live under occupation and be non-persons in the land in which their ancestors have lived for hundred of years. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

    The irony here is that short of the Israeli going out and committing genocide and killing the four to five million Palestinians living in Greater Israel (Israel, West Bank & Gaza) Israel will not exist as a Jewish 50 years from now. Demographics are a bitch.
12. ChrisWWW says:

    January 1, 2009 at 6:36 pm

    Context matters. The people of Gaza live under horrible conditions enforced by the Israeli military. Their brothers and sisters in the West Bank have likewise seen their land stolen and walls built between them and their jobs. Living in either place is a nightmare that few us can likely comprehend.

    Under those conditions is it any great surprise that Palestinians have become radicalized? Is it any surprise that they do whatever they can (what we call terrorism) to fight back? It may be counterproductive, it may be immoral, but it's not difficult to understand why it's happening.

    Michael is right that intentions matter, but so do capabilities. The Palestinians are incapable of fighting a war with the Israelis on their terms, with soldiers, tanks and guided missiles. They don't have military bases (living in them would be suicide). What they do have is highly ineffective rockets, and people willing to strap bombs to themselves, and children throwing rocks.

    Again, what they're doing is violent, and it's wrong, but what do you expect when both their own past leaders and Israeli leaders have done nothing but exacerbate a 60 year occupation? The peace process has given them nothing, and so they lash out rather than simply dying with a whimper. Don't pretend like you would do anything different if you were in their situation.

    The way forward is clear, neither Israeli bombs or Hamas's rockets will create peace. But America and Israel can. They can immediately end the blockade of Gaza, they can begin dismantling the illegal outposts across the 1967 green line, and they can let the Palestinians govern themselves and become a country.
13. Don Quijote says:

    January 1, 2009 at 7:17 pm

    And pigs can fly…
14. Jim_Satterfield says:

    January 2, 2009 at 11:58 am

    Yes, DQ, we understand that you know that the Palestinians and their leaders are the saintly ones in this debacle. As far as this statement, I say prove it.

    OTOH if the the Palestinians are good little boys and girls and don't fight back, the little land they have will be stolen from them, they will live under occupation and be non-persons in the land in which their ancestors have lived for hundred of years, if they fight back with whatever weapons they can get their hands on the little land they have will be stolen from them, they will live under occupation and be non-persons in the land in which their ancestors have lived for hundred of years. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

    Once again, prove it. Show us some positive proof that the Israelis could stand up to international pressure and not become a pariah state if the Palestinians actually turned away from terrorism and stayed on the path of peaceful resistance and kept some resolve on the issue. Where is your recognition that it was the Arabs who started the wars that led to land being lost? Somehow I missed that. Yes, the evil Jews of Israel are the only ones at fault and the Palestinians can do no wrong according to what you write. You're just as wrong as any apologists who think that the settlements are a good thing and that the West Bank shouldn't be allowed to become a true home for the Palestinians.
15. Jim_Satterfield says:

    January 2, 2009 at 12:04 pm

    ChrisWWW,

    I'm sorry but I couldn't let this one pass.

    Is it any surprise that they do whatever they can (what we call terrorism) to fight back?

    Sorry, but it is terrorism. Don't give me that “what we call terrorism” crap. Blowing up buses, restaurants, hotels and markets full of civilians and tourists in attacks targeted specifically at civilians is terrorism, plain and simple. There is no equivocation that is acceptable on this. There is no “Oh, it's just what we call it because we don't understand.”. That kind of excuse is just pure crap. It's wrong no matter who does it for what cause.
16. Don Quijote says:

    January 2, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    Once again, prove it. Show us some positive proof that the Israelis could stand up to international pressure and not become a pariah state if the Palestinians actually turned away from terrorism and stayed on the path of peaceful resistance and kept some resolve on the issue.

    PBS – Road to the Road Map
    

    Since the 1993 Declaration of Principles, which resulted from the Oslo peace process, there have been several handovers of land to differing degrees of Palestinian civil and security control. The Oslo Peace Accords anticipated the halting of settlement building and the growing removal of settlements. Instead, during the intervening years the number settlers on the West Bank has doubled from about 100,000 to 200,000.

    While you are sitting in good faith at the negotiating table, you don't double the number of Settlements on Occupied Territories. I am still waiting to hear the outrage from Americans or to see any negative consequences for the Israelis for behaving with such bad faith.

    Where is your recognition that it was the Arabs who started the wars that led to land being lost? Somehow I missed that.

    Plan Dalet and The NAKBA

    On 10 March 1948, two months before the so-called Declaration of Independence, the Zionist leadership gathered in Tel Aviv and agreed on Plan Dalet calling for a military campaign against the Palestinians. Over 13 military underground operations were carried out (according to The History of the Palmach archives released in full in 1972) before the Arab forces entered the areas allotted by the UN to the Palestinians in their Partition Plan. Both Menachem Begin and David Ben-Gurion wrote extensively about their underground military campaigns to cleanse Palestinian villages of their indigenous inhabitants.

    All this was taking place BEFORE Israel existed! The claim that Arab forces invaded Israel is hog-wash. When the Zionist leaders established Israel on 15 May 1948, they purposefully avoided declaring its boundaries in order to open the doors for future expansion, as has been happening since then.

    At the end of the implementation of Plan Dalet, the Haganah set up “The Committee for Abandoned Arab Property” – The CFAAP – which was entrusted with the disposal of all Arab possessions into Yishuv hands. The intention was to obliterate any sign of ‘life’ in the abandoned Palestinian homes and villages.

    By June 1948, approximately 370,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes. By the end of that year the number totalled 780,000. Josef Weitz declared, at a cabinet meeting chaired by Ben-Gurion on 18 August 1948, that 286 villages had been cleared or evacuated and about 3 million dunums had been left behind by their Palestinian owners as they fled the Zionist terror. The last of the villages to be cleared was Al-Majdal (later renamed Ashkelon by Israel).

    Within 6 months, Zionist terrorist organizations went on a rampage expelling and murdering Palestinians and destroying their homes and villages. They expelled 452,780 Palestinians men, women and children from the areas allocated to the Jews in the Partition Plan, and a further 347,220 were uprooted from areas beyond the allocated boundaries. All in all, a total of 800,000 Palestinians were expelled from their homes, 530 of their villages destroyed and 11 of their urban neighbourhoods were emptied. Massacres, like that at Deir Yaseen, spread fear and terror in the hearts of Palestinian families and forced them to take flight.

    Yes, the evil Jews of Israel are the only ones at fault and the Palestinians can do no wrong according to what you write. You're just as wrong as any apologists who think that the settlements are a good thing and that the West Bank shouldn't be allowed to become a true home for the Palestinians.

    Thanks for setting me straight,
    Palestinian: Bad
    Fatah: Double Bad
    Hamas: Double Double plus Bad
    Israel : Good
    Jews: Double Good
    Israeli Jews: Double Double plus Good

    Yes, the settlements should be wiped from the map and the Palestinians given a decent amount of contiguous territory to form a state of their own.

    What's to stop the Double Double plus Good people from removing their settlements? Peace Now: West Bank settlement construction nearly doubled this year
    

    More than 2,600 housing units are under construction in West Bank settlements, including units in more than 1,000 new buildings, Peace Now contends in its semi-annual report.

    Basing its conclusions on aerial photographs and field visits, the organization says that slightly more than half of the new structures are going up east of the separation fence, and in several places construction is encroaching on the boundaries of Palestinian towns, such as Ramallah and Bethlehem.

    National Bureau of Statistics data shows that construction in settlements jumped from 240 housing units between January and May 2007 to 433 housing units during the same period this year. Housing and Construction Ministry projects account for 64 percent of all building starts cataloged.
    Advertisement
    Peace Now reports an increase of 550 percent in the number of tenders for construction in the settlements: 417 housing units compared to just 65 in 2007; 125 new buildings at outposts, including 30 permanent structures.

    The report also addresses construction over the Green Line within Jerusalem's municipal boundaries, an area in which 200,000 Jews now live. East Jerusalem saw an increase in tenders for construction of housing units to 46 this year, from 38 during January-May 2007.

    But you also missed that the goal of your heroes of Hamas isn't a two state solution but continued terrorism as long as Israel exists. So far as I can tell from your rants you seem to think that's a good idea.

    But you also missed that the goal of your heroes of Israel isn't a two state solution but the complete take over of all of Palestine. So far as I can tell from your rants you seem to think that's a good idea.

    Blowing up buses, restaurants, hotels and markets full of civilians and tourists in attacks targeted specifically at civilians is terrorism, plain and simple.

    As opposed to dropping 500lbs bombs from aircrafts on the head of defenseless civilians.
17. Jim_Satterfield says:

    January 2, 2009 at 10:02 pm

    Thank you for proving I was right about your viewpoint, DQ. The Israelis are the source of all evil and all Palestinians and Muslims are saints. There are no terrorists except for the Israelis. The Palestinians, Hezbollah and Hamas are completely justified in everything they do. I really, really hesitated to make any accusations but then you posted this:

    Jews: Double Good
    Israeli Jews: Double Double plus Good

    And when I go to that site you link to to prove your argument about the inherent evil of Israel I find this:

    1948: LEST WE FORGET aim:

    1. To expose the lies which have, for too long, been presented and accepted as the true scenario of how Israel came to be in 1948. Consequently, to raise awareness of world public opinion of the tragic events that befell and continue to engulf the Palestinian people as a result of the Zionist lies. We aim to salvage a piece of history which has been erased and forgotten.

    2. To call for the Right of Return of all Palestinian refugees to their homes in all of historic Palestine to be re-affirmed and asserted under International Law and in accordance with all relevant United Nations Resolutions. This Right is non-negotiable and must also apply to Palestinians who are not UNRWA registered refugees, should they choose to return.

    So as I understand your position, the state of Israel must be wiped from the map and if they don't like it there is no limit to what can and should be done to them. Is that the basic tenet you hold to? It seems to be. So IMO, your posts seem to be the ragings of a dedicated anti-semite who has absolutely no interest in peace in the region if it involves Israel continuing to exist. Is that accurate? A yes or no instead of refusing to answer directly by throwing up new accusations against the evil Jews would be appreciated.
18. Jim_Satterfield says:

    January 2, 2009 at 10:09 pm

    And in addition…quit lying about what I say. In your latest ravings you state
    

    But you also missed that the goal of your heroes of Israel isn't a two state solution but the complete take over of all of Palestine. So far as I can tell from your rants you seem to think that's a good idea.

    Show me where I said or even implied that. Oh, you can't. Because I didn't. Ever.
19. Don Quijote says:

    January 2, 2009 at 11:23 pm

    So as I understand your position, the state of Israel must be wiped from the map and if they don't like it there is no limit to what can and should be done to them. Is that the basic tenet you hold to? It seems to be. Is that accurate? A yes or no instead of refusing to answer directly by throwing up new accusations against the evil Israelis/Jews would be appreciated.

    No, You do not understand my position.

    let me use a few concise statements to describe my position:
    a) Israel wants all of Palestine and will do whatever it takes to get it.
    b) Palestinians are entitled to defend themselves.
    c) The Demographics are not going Israel's way and in the long run Israel will stop being a viable state, no matter what Hamas or Fatah does.
20. Don Quijote says:

    January 2, 2009 at 11:25 pm

    You are right, you never said or implied that. It was pure snark/sarcasm on my part!

    None the less that is US policy.
21. Jim_Satterfield says:

    January 3, 2009 at 12:19 am

    If you rely on places like 1948 for your information don't be surprised when you are associated with their beliefs. They make it clear that they want the occupation ended and that by occupation they mean the existence of Israel. Since everything else you write agrees with them why should I believe you when you claim to not share that goal? Give me a good reason after reading your raving bigotry. Did you think I forgot this bit?

    Thanks for setting me straight,
    Palestinian: Bad
    Fatah: Double Bad
    Hamas: Double Double plus Bad
    Israel : Good
    Jews: Double Good
    Israeli Jews: Double Double plus Good

    I think I got it!

    You went way past snark and into your inner bigotry on that one. And if Joe or anyone wants to say I shouldn't say that about you they should have you offer up something resembling a rational argument.
22. Don Quijote says:

    January 3, 2009 at 1:38 am

    . BTW, you have not shown one bit of evidence besides your opinions that in fact U.S. policy opposes a two state solution. As I said before, prove it.

    Roughly $3 Billion in Military Aid, no strings attached!!!

    Imagine what would happen if we attached condition to the aid or just took it away. How long do you think it would take for the Israelis to start cutting deals with the Palestinians if they lost US support? 3 years? 5 years? less?

    I don't judge policies by what their supposed goals are, but by what they accomplish and from what I can see at the present time Israeli policy is to take over all of Palestine and US policy is to back them to the hilt.
23. Jim_Satterfield says:

    January 3, 2009 at 5:53 am

    DQ, did you have a party after 9/11? Just wondering after you agreed that any act of terrorism the Palestinians want to commit is perfectly fine with you.
24. Don Quijote says:

    January 3, 2009 at 8:55 am

    But perhaps I can just say that I think that viewpoint is so perverted and wrong I wonder if he had a party celebrating 9/11.

    No, I didn't have a party, but I did observe that the Chickens had come home to roost.