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	<title>Comments on: Farewell to All That &#8212; Bob Herbert Joins In</title>
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		<title>By: Manchester2</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/comment-page-1/#comment-168232</link>
		<dc:creator>Manchester2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 05:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/#comment-168232</guid>
		<description>Actually, quite kind. He is known for doing many positive things both prior and after his time in the Presidency. It&#039;s in the history books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, quite kind. He is known for doing many positive things both prior and after his time in the Presidency. It&#39;s in the history books.</p>
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		<title>By: Manchester2</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/comment-page-1/#comment-168230</link>
		<dc:creator>Manchester2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 05:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/#comment-168230</guid>
		<description>I stand by my D- for Carter. He dithered for 444 days -- count &#039;em -- while our hostages languished in Iran. Only then did he authorize a military strike that crashed in the Iranian desert, a symbol of a military that he had bled with reductions in Defense spending. Then, when the economy soured, he goes on T.V. and the radio and gives his infamous (and pathetic) &quot;malaise&quot; speech. The reason he didn&#039;t get an &quot;F&quot; from me was the Camp David accords, the one positive moment in a sorry four years. Since then, I&#039;d give him a &quot;B.&quot; He&#039;s been a good former President, I&#039;ll admit that much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I stand by my D- for Carter. He dithered for 444 days &#8212; count &#39;em &#8212; while our hostages languished in Iran. Only then did he authorize a military strike that crashed in the Iranian desert, a symbol of a military that he had bled with reductions in Defense spending. Then, when the economy soured, he goes on T.V. and the radio and gives his infamous (and pathetic) &#8220;malaise&#8221; speech. The reason he didn&#39;t get an &#8220;F&#8221; from me was the Camp David accords, the one positive moment in a sorry four years. Since then, I&#39;d give him a &#8220;B.&#8221; He&#39;s been a good former President, I&#39;ll admit that much.</p>
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		<title>By: kritt11</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/comment-page-1/#comment-168227</link>
		<dc:creator>kritt11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 04:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/#comment-168227</guid>
		<description>Worse, GreenDreams, because in the end, Monicagate did not  have any effect on national security.We will never know the damage revealing Plame&#039;s identity did to it.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I absolutely agree about testimony under oath-- otherwise corrupt officials make a mockery of the law. Cheney is  a wise old coot, and learned how to operate outside the law from his predecessors mistakes during earlier scandals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worse, GreenDreams, because in the end, Monicagate did not  have any effect on national security.We will never know the damage revealing Plame&#39;s identity did to it.</p>
<p>I absolutely agree about testimony under oath&#8211; otherwise corrupt officials make a mockery of the law. Cheney is  a wise old coot, and learned how to operate outside the law from his predecessors mistakes during earlier scandals.</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/comment-page-1/#comment-168207</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 00:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/#comment-168207</guid>
		<description>kritt, and indeed that&#039;s exactly why all testimony should be under oath. How dare the Bush administration refuse to pledge their testimony will be truthful. As far as I&#039;m concerned, Cheney lying to Congress and the public is just as criminal as Clinton lying to the court (though the court didn&#039;t convict, as the definition of &quot;sex&quot; was too vague).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kritt, and indeed that&#39;s exactly why all testimony should be under oath. How dare the Bush administration refuse to pledge their testimony will be truthful. As far as I&#39;m concerned, Cheney lying to Congress and the public is just as criminal as Clinton lying to the court (though the court didn&#39;t convict, as the definition of &#8220;sex&#8221; was too vague).</p>
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		<title>By: kritt11</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/comment-page-1/#comment-168190</link>
		<dc:creator>kritt11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 23:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/#comment-168190</guid>
		<description>Yes,  Greendreams- if they had put him in front of a Grand Jury during Iran-Contra he would have been guilty of obstruction and perjury- as Clinton was.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; Ditto  If they had made Cheney testify under oath about Plamegate-</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes,  Greendreams- if they had put him in front of a Grand Jury during Iran-Contra he would have been guilty of obstruction and perjury- as Clinton was.</p>
<p> Ditto  If they had made Cheney testify under oath about Plamegate-</p>
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		<title>By: GreenDreams</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/comment-page-1/#comment-168186</link>
		<dc:creator>GreenDreams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/#comment-168186</guid>
		<description>History won&#039;t be kind to Bush. How could it be? Manchester, how kind is history to Hoover?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And Reagan? A- ? A self-confessed traitor to the USA? That kinda defines your standards... &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;A few months ago, I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that&#039;s true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not.&quot;  - Reagan 3/3/87</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>History won&#39;t be kind to Bush. How could it be? Manchester, how kind is history to Hoover?</p>
<p>And Reagan? A- ? A self-confessed traitor to the USA? That kinda defines your standards&#8230; </p>
<p>&#8220;A few months ago, I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that&#39;s true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not.&#8221;  &#8211; Reagan 3/3/87</p>
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		<title>By: Rudi</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/comment-page-1/#comment-168184</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/#comment-168184</guid>
		<description>How does W get a C+? &lt;br&gt;What has he really done? &lt;br&gt;Don&#039;t bring up Islamostooges attacks on the US mainland. The US wasn&#039;t attacked by the USSR during the Carter administartion. Does this make Caters grade a B or better?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How does W get a C+? <br />What has he really done? <br />Don&#39;t bring up Islamostooges attacks on the US mainland. The US wasn&#39;t attacked by the USSR during the Carter administartion. Does this make Caters grade a B or better?</p>
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		<title>By: kritt11</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/comment-page-1/#comment-168182</link>
		<dc:creator>kritt11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/#comment-168182</guid>
		<description>Good points, Rudi!!!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Also- Bush had a complacent Republican-led Congress, whose leaders acted like lieutenants in his presidential army - and whose members almost always voted with the head of the party.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Carter was a fish out of water in DC, and had a lot of problems because of a rivalry with Ted Kennedy who was gearing up for his own run in 1980, and who thought Carter was not liberal ENOUGH.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, Rudi!!!</p>
<p>Also- Bush had a complacent Republican-led Congress, whose leaders acted like lieutenants in his presidential army &#8211; and whose members almost always voted with the head of the party.</p>
<p>Carter was a fish out of water in DC, and had a lot of problems because of a rivalry with Ted Kennedy who was gearing up for his own run in 1980, and who thought Carter was not liberal ENOUGH.</p>
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		<title>By: Rudi</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/comment-page-1/#comment-168180</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/#comment-168180</guid>
		<description>Carter inherited a bad economy from Ford and Nixon.&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/28/AR2006122801002.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Ford&#039;s WIN Buttons Remembered&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;By MARTIN CRUTSINGER&lt;br&gt;The Associated Press&lt;br&gt;Thursday, December 28, 2006; 6:35 PM&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;WASHINGTON -- Gerald R. Ford failed to &quot;Whip Inflation Now&quot; as his hapless WIN buttons proclaimed, but his presidency did provide a training ground for the ultimate inflation-tamer: Alan Greenspan.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In what is considered to be one of the biggest government public relations blunders ever, Ford approved a plan soon after becoming president in August 1974 to have millions of red-and-white buttons printed up with the &quot;WIN&quot; slogan on them.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The button appealed to the Republican Ford because it put the emphasis on fighting inflation through voluntary citizen action rather than a big government bureaucracy of price controls.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;However, the buttons were a flop, endlessly lampooned by critics.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br&gt;Carter gave the world Camp David Peace Accord. This peace resulted in the militant Shiites in Iran to capture the US embassy, dooming Cater&#039;s chances for reelection. W inherited a decent economy with a budget SURPLUS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carter inherited a bad economy from Ford and Nixon.<br /><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/28/AR2006122801002.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar&#8230;</a><br />
<blockquote>Ford&#39;s WIN Buttons Remembered</p>
<p>By MARTIN CRUTSINGER<br />The Associated Press<br />Thursday, December 28, 2006; 6:35 PM</p>
<p>WASHINGTON &#8212; Gerald R. Ford failed to &#8220;Whip Inflation Now&#8221; as his hapless WIN buttons proclaimed, but his presidency did provide a training ground for the ultimate inflation-tamer: Alan Greenspan.</p>
<p>In what is considered to be one of the biggest government public relations blunders ever, Ford approved a plan soon after becoming president in August 1974 to have millions of red-and-white buttons printed up with the &#8220;WIN&#8221; slogan on them.</p>
<p>The button appealed to the Republican Ford because it put the emphasis on fighting inflation through voluntary citizen action rather than a big government bureaucracy of price controls.</p>
<p>However, the buttons were a flop, endlessly lampooned by critics.</p></blockquote>
<p>Carter gave the world Camp David Peace Accord. This peace resulted in the militant Shiites in Iran to capture the US embassy, dooming Cater&#39;s chances for reelection. W inherited a decent economy with a budget SURPLUS.</p>
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		<title>By: kritt11</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/comment-page-1/#comment-168161</link>
		<dc:creator>kritt11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/#comment-168161</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Manchester- I guess Bush still has many apologists.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt; I lived through Carter as well, and although we had double digit inflation and gas lines, we did not have the massive debt we have now, and the economy was not on the brink of a major depression.  Carter did not involve us in 2 long expensive wars (one of choice) and he at least tried to get Americans to think about energy conservation. His biggest achievement, of course, was the agreement between Sadat and Begin-- which today would be almost impossible.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;After the Bush presidency ends --- he will &quot;refill the coffers&quot;. Carter started the Carter center and is an international humanitarian. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There were many problems with the Bush administration, but for some reason this example is the most galling for me. In 2001 scientists determined  that dental technicians were being exposed to a dangerous carcinogen, beryllium, during procedures. The exposure was enough to cause lung cancer. It was reported to OSHA- with an urgent recommendation to take action. A Bush political appointee stymied the agencies intent to regulate the substance, after a discussion with industry lobbyists. In short, nothing has been done in all of these years. Bush put people in watchdog agencies who would negate the agencies purpose in order to remain friendly with big Republican corporate donors.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;IMO, that is about as immoral an act as you can find. How would you like a job as a dental technician, Manchester??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Manchester- I guess Bush still has many apologists.</p>
<p> I lived through Carter as well, and although we had double digit inflation and gas lines, we did not have the massive debt we have now, and the economy was not on the brink of a major depression.  Carter did not involve us in 2 long expensive wars (one of choice) and he at least tried to get Americans to think about energy conservation. His biggest achievement, of course, was the agreement between Sadat and Begin&#8211; which today would be almost impossible.  </p>
<p>After the Bush presidency ends &#8212; he will &#8220;refill the coffers&#8221;. Carter started the Carter center and is an international humanitarian. </p>
<p>There were many problems with the Bush administration, but for some reason this example is the most galling for me. In 2001 scientists determined  that dental technicians were being exposed to a dangerous carcinogen, beryllium, during procedures. The exposure was enough to cause lung cancer. It was reported to OSHA- with an urgent recommendation to take action. A Bush political appointee stymied the agencies intent to regulate the substance, after a discussion with industry lobbyists. In short, nothing has been done in all of these years. Bush put people in watchdog agencies who would negate the agencies purpose in order to remain friendly with big Republican corporate donors.</p>
<p>IMO, that is about as immoral an act as you can find. How would you like a job as a dental technician, Manchester??</p>
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		<title>By: D. E.Rodriguez</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/comment-page-1/#comment-168152</link>
		<dc:creator>D. E.Rodriguez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/#comment-168152</guid>
		<description>Keep hoping---or dreaming, Manchester.  You are entitled to it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep hoping&#8212;or dreaming, Manchester.  You are entitled to it</p>
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		<title>By: Manchester2</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/comment-page-1/#comment-168150</link>
		<dc:creator>Manchester2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:25:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/25311/farewell-to-all-that-bob-herbert-joins-in/#comment-168150</guid>
		<description>Alas, more band-wagon analysis. Sigh...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As I&#039;ve argued on another TMV thread, history will be kinder to Bush than this kind of &quot;me too&quot; essay. Having lived through the Presidency of Jimmy Carter, for example, Bush has arguably done much better. My main complaint with Bush was his allowing fellow Republicans to spend like drunken sailors, without vetoing a single bill until late in his Presidency, when the Dems were in control. As a fiscal conservative, this &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; rankled me. As for Afghanistan, even writers on this blog overlook the fact that we didn&#039;t go it alone. We are part of NATO there, even as we were part of a coalition in Iraq. Does Bush get an A? Far from it. I&#039;d give him a C+. He was no Reagan (A-), and no Clinton (B+),  but thank heaven he was no Carter (D-).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alas, more band-wagon analysis. Sigh&#8230;</p>
<p>As I&#39;ve argued on another TMV thread, history will be kinder to Bush than this kind of &#8220;me too&#8221; essay. Having lived through the Presidency of Jimmy Carter, for example, Bush has arguably done much better. My main complaint with Bush was his allowing fellow Republicans to spend like drunken sailors, without vetoing a single bill until late in his Presidency, when the Dems were in control. As a fiscal conservative, this <i>really</i> rankled me. As for Afghanistan, even writers on this blog overlook the fact that we didn&#39;t go it alone. We are part of NATO there, even as we were part of a coalition in Iraq. Does Bush get an A? Far from it. I&#39;d give him a C+. He was no Reagan (A-), and no Clinton (B+),  but thank heaven he was no Carter (D-).</p>
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