Wow

Mikkel- I couldn't agree more about the validity of the warnings from Carter and Eisenhower.

Funny how Carter is considered to have been a poor president, and how Reagan was given so many accolades. The fact is, Carter tried to set us on a path that was not popular and feel goodish (which is the opposite of what Reagan did) but it was a path of responsibility and vision. Americans did not want this however, they wanted to feel good about themselves - as though esteem didn't need to be earned so much as granted. If we had followed the path outlined by Carter nearly 3 decades ago, these last 8 years would not have transpired anything like the way they did. Unfortunately, Americans (and their leaders) seem to be afraid to stray far from the status quo, even when it's killing us. How many opportunities can we waste before it's too late? I suppose if I was "born again" or some such thing, then I wouldn't ultimately care, but I have to be honest and say that I believe This. Is. It. Either we get our act together and take what is left of the opportunities we haven't already blown, and face reality, with courage and creativity, or we continue our downward slide as a failed species whose final legacy will be that we rode this planet too hard and put it away too wet. Whatever happens, it will be our choice - and not choosing is also a choice. How smart are we... really? Thanks Mikkel for bringing up the subject of Carter's speech and showing that we faced the same choices then and ignored them only to have them resurface (did anyone think they wouldn't?). I'm a bit worried Obama is going to play it too safe in a time that calls for radical and visionary leadership. I hope I'm wrong.

Yeah, only 28 years of almost non-stop prosperity starting with Reagan. What a failure he was.

But Reagan made us feel better about the wrong things. He knew we were facing an energy crisis but did nothing to prepare for it. He had the leadership qualities to get us started down the right path, but squandered it. Reagan ushered in the era of corporate and personal greed.

We have not recognized the value of presidents coming clean with the American people like Carter and Eisenhower did.

Austin if you look at measures of sustainable prosperity, i.e. consumer/government debt, trade deficits, etc. and then you look at real wage growth and income disparity, then there is a strong argument that the last 30 years was not really "prosperous" at all...it was just one long increase of debt. That goes for Clinton too, for this line of thinking doesn't leave his policies out.

So yeah, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that in 30 years Reagan will be seen as just an OK President. In fact a lot of conservatives (including Bacevich and many libertarians) have an unfavorable view of him for these very reasons.

I love revisionist history.

Let's use the old question, are the majority of Americans better off now than they were 30 years ago? By just about any measure you want to use, the answer is yes.

Is American life perfect, equal and just for all? No, and it never has been.

Are we heading into a recession, or maybe even a depression? Yes, very likely.

Does that mean the end of the American dream, or that we will never be prosperous again? No, it does not. That doesn't mean it is likely we will achieve the dominance of global affairs we once had (and which likely peaked in the 50's or early 60's), but that is different than saying we will never be a powerhouse again.

That has been a basic difference between conservatives and liberals since the 60's, at least. Liberals always manage to convince themselves that the best is behind us, and we need to accept a second class status. Conservatives believe the future holds new opportunities, challenges, and eventual success, even when things seem bleak.

I love revisionist history.

Let's use the old question, are the majority of Americans better off now than they were 30 years ago? By just about any measure you want to use, the answer is yes.

Is American life perfect, equal and just for all? No, and it never has been.

Are we heading into a recession, or maybe even a depression? Yes, very likely.

Does that mean the end of the American dream, or that we will never be prosperous again? No, it does not. That doesn't mean it is likely we will achieve the dominance of global affairs we once had (and which likely peaked in the 50's or early 60's), but that is different than saying we will never be a powerhouse again.

That has been a basic difference between conservatives and liberals since the 60's, at least. Liberals always manage to convince themselves that the best is behind us, and we need to accept a second class status. Conservatives believe the future holds new opportunities, challenges, and eventual success, even when things seem bleak.

I love revisionist history.

Let's use the old question, are the majority of Americans better off now than they were 30 years ago? By just about any measure you want to use, the answer is yes.

Is American life perfect, equal and just for all? No, and it never has been.

Are we heading into a recession, or maybe even a depression? Yes, very likely.

Does that mean the end of the American dream, or that we will never be prosperous again? No, it does not. That doesn't mean it is likely we will achieve the dominance of global affairs we once had (and which likely peaked in the 50's or early 60's), but that is different than saying we will never be a powerhouse again.

That has been a basic difference between conservatives and liberals since the 60's, at least. Liberals always manage to convince themselves that the best is behind us, and we need to accept a second class status. Conservatives believe the future holds new opportunities, challenges, and eventual success, even when things seem bleak.

Sorry for the triple post.

Disqus sucks.

I fail to see where anyone ever claimed that it means the end of the American dream or that we will never be prosperous. In fact the entire argument (whether from a conservative or liberal perspective) is that with a change in approach we will be far more prosperous and stable than we ever have been....a change that requires massive infrastructure and monetary policy improvements. Most of the argument is about the actual policy implementations to cause these changes. If you read Carter's speech he very clearly states these beliefs.

I also am very confused how you could say it is very likely we'll have a huge recession or depression, which by the latter by definition should never happen unless something is seriously wrong, and then claim that it doesn't matter to reevaluate the past and try to determine possible reasons because *somehow* things will be OK. Uh ok, how will things be OK if we don't know what caused problems in the first place.

Well there are many theories about what the economy should do and what it should respond to, but the theories that said we had unsustainable consumption and foreign debt are showing to be the most accurate. The measures of these things had a huge spike starting with Reagan and hasn't looked back. Oh and those criticisms are primarily from conservative economists and thinkers (of the pre-Reagan revolution vein), not liberals. So your summary doesn't align with a lot of the actual criticisms.

Plus, is Eisenhower not a conservative now?

Oh and if you want to talk about "revisionist" history, I think when all is said and done Clinton will actually be viewed much much more negatively than he is now and more so than Reagan who veered us away from an obviously unsustainable welfare environment.

Oh also I just remembered that last year as the credit crisis was just forming and I believe that even about 6 months before that I was talking about these exact same things and you had the same attitude; except then it was that things weren't actually bad and all the worrying was just because Liberals try to tear down the country and perpetually pessimistic.

Let's use the old question, are the majority of Americans better off now than they were 30 years ago? By just about any measure you want to use, the answer is yes.

Really?

I seriously doubt it!

American wages hit a peak in the mid-seventies and have been stagnating ever since. More Americans work today than did thirty years ago, and they work more hours than they did thirty years ago. Defined Pension Plans have been phased out, most employer don't offer anywhere near the quality health insurance today than they did thirty years ago. Most Americans have no savings and are a couple of paychecks from homelessness. The average American household has almost $9,000 in credit card debt.

OTOH we have far better electronics & technology than we had thirty years ago, and our upper classes (the top ten percent of the population) are substantially wealthier than they were in 1978, every one else is either in the same place or worse off.

And none of this takes into account our Federal Debt ( $10 Trillion) or our $700 to $800 billion trade deficit.

I don't think we are better off.

We have older people delaying their retirements, more bankruptcies, a deep recession and a crashing stock market. More people are deeply in debt and the numbers of uninsured have become a national crisis. The Big Three are on the verge of going under, and we started a war to get a reliable source of oil.

AR says: Yeah, only 28 years of almost non-stop prosperity starting with Reagan. What a failure he was.
Yes we ate like mad pigs at the through, but the through is empty and the pig is in ill health. I wonder how we'd be right now if we ended our oil addiction in 1980 by listening to Carter?