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	<title>Comments on: Obama as Exemplar: Will The Two Parties Reach Across the Aisle This Time?</title>
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		<title>By: archangel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-163932</link>
		<dc:creator>archangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 17:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservatism/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/#comment-163932</guid>
		<description>Dear River: a good many persons who have that kind of internal/external &#039;antennae&#039; can feel movements in culture daily, sometimes from moment to moment. It&#039;s not kool-aid. The kool-aid trope is a scorn phrase meant to denigrate a, not irrational, but non-rational process of knowing. Many persons, however, carry this intuitive gift, and the managing of it is based on learning its lability and its stabilities.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As you know, if you mentioned your thoughts to a Hopi elder or the Ekhatl medicine people who live along the border, ancient cultures, they would understand your language and experience completely. Out here in the west, your &#039;learning from horses&#039; is considered by me, and others, as sacred. The challenge always, is to bring it down to earth in useful and often, pragmatic, ways.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;dr.e</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear River: a good many persons who have that kind of internal/external &#39;antennae&#39; can feel movements in culture daily, sometimes from moment to moment. It&#39;s not kool-aid. The kool-aid trope is a scorn phrase meant to denigrate a, not irrational, but non-rational process of knowing. Many persons, however, carry this intuitive gift, and the managing of it is based on learning its lability and its stabilities.</p>
<p>As you know, if you mentioned your thoughts to a Hopi elder or the Ekhatl medicine people who live along the border, ancient cultures, they would understand your language and experience completely. Out here in the west, your &#39;learning from horses&#39; is considered by me, and others, as sacred. The challenge always, is to bring it down to earth in useful and often, pragmatic, ways.</p>
<p>dr.e</p>
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		<title>By: river</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-162982</link>
		<dc:creator>river</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservatism/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/#comment-162982</guid>
		<description>dear Dr. E. . . a short explanation for what i am perceiving these last couple of days. . .my mother had to leave for a few years after my birth due to 8 children and  illness. . .but this is not a sad story. . .  for at ten months  after being a FTT my siblings sat me on the ground by the horse lot. . .and  was taken in by the lead horse. . .they found i would eat if they put me on her back. . .by age two had learned how to climb the fence and Filly would come and press up close so i could climb on and she would take me down into the pasture to spend most of my time with the herd. . . she would bring  me back every couple of hours to see if i needed off. . .energy learned from horses and nature was my Mother tongue. . . was swallowed up by the Great Mother. . . have always been energetic. . . and open to the collective and life force  energies. . .&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;the last couple of days. . .have noticed a change in what i call the collective energies. . .  have never experienced  the collective degree of lightness to such degree. . .don&#039;t know if i have words to explain it. . . but there is  a clearing and freshness. . .   it is more than Obama as politician. . .more than the beautiful graciousness of John McCain&#039;s concession speak. . . something larger than left or right. . . political. . . Polosi. . .Reed. . .Rice. . .Powell. . .don&#039;t think it is about the polarities. . . or who won or who lost. . .but rather a circle of hearts extending around the world with a hope and a prayer for all of us to live from our &quot;better angels&quot;. . .perhaps every increase in collective consciousness emerges from the encounter with abyssal darkness and chaos, but somehow much like pandora&#039;s box all that was left was &quot;the audacity of hope&quot;. . .then when the lid was opened the compensating wind of spirit rushed in to fill the darkness leaving light and freshness. . .a freshness that feel like  Spring  in the pastures with the air filled with the mesquite . . .sage. . .cedar. . .tender young grass. . .from the first gentle rain. . . &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;maybe i have drank the kool-aid???. . . i may not have the words. . .but something has happened to elevate the collective energies. . . whatever has happened it sure is sweet. . . i believe and perceive a chance for a new beginning. . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dear Dr. E. . . a short explanation for what i am perceiving these last couple of days. . .my mother had to leave for a few years after my birth due to 8 children and  illness. . .but this is not a sad story. . .  for at ten months  after being a FTT my siblings sat me on the ground by the horse lot. . .and  was taken in by the lead horse. . .they found i would eat if they put me on her back. . .by age two had learned how to climb the fence and Filly would come and press up close so i could climb on and she would take me down into the pasture to spend most of my time with the herd. . . she would bring  me back every couple of hours to see if i needed off. . .energy learned from horses and nature was my Mother tongue. . . was swallowed up by the Great Mother. . . have always been energetic. . . and open to the collective and life force  energies. . .</p>
<p>the last couple of days. . .have noticed a change in what i call the collective energies. . .  have never experienced  the collective degree of lightness to such degree. . .don&#39;t know if i have words to explain it. . . but there is  a clearing and freshness. . .   it is more than Obama as politician. . .more than the beautiful graciousness of John McCain&#39;s concession speak. . . something larger than left or right. . . political. . . Polosi. . .Reed. . .Rice. . .Powell. . .don&#39;t think it is about the polarities. . . or who won or who lost. . .but rather a circle of hearts extending around the world with a hope and a prayer for all of us to live from our &#8220;better angels&#8221;. . .perhaps every increase in collective consciousness emerges from the encounter with abyssal darkness and chaos, but somehow much like pandora&#39;s box all that was left was &#8220;the audacity of hope&#8221;. . .then when the lid was opened the compensating wind of spirit rushed in to fill the darkness leaving light and freshness. . .a freshness that feel like  Spring  in the pastures with the air filled with the mesquite . . .sage. . .cedar. . .tender young grass. . .from the first gentle rain. . . </p>
<p>maybe i have drank the kool-aid???. . . i may not have the words. . .but something has happened to elevate the collective energies. . . whatever has happened it sure is sweet. . . i believe and perceive a chance for a new beginning. . .</p>
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		<title>By: lizhill2</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-162708</link>
		<dc:creator>lizhill2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 20:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservatism/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/#comment-162708</guid>
		<description>Yes it&#039;s me-- I&#039;ve been lurking here for a while now, so pleased to be able to read your always thoughtful words in this forum. I did not see the Cagle cartoon of which you speak. But not long ago I saw the old movie Young Abe Lincoln and was stunned to see how manipulative it was-- in the name of patriotism, I&#039;m sure. Abe wasn&#039;t perfect and he wasn&#039;t afraid to admit it. Frankly, I welcome that in a leader and perhaps if we saw it more often  we could learn to accept it, instead of seeing it as a sign of &quot;weakness.&quot; &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I read about your family&#039;s recent loss and send lots of love your way.  We are in St Paul MN now and I still miss Denver lots.&lt;br&gt;Liz</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes it&#39;s me&#8211; I&#39;ve been lurking here for a while now, so pleased to be able to read your always thoughtful words in this forum. I did not see the Cagle cartoon of which you speak. But not long ago I saw the old movie Young Abe Lincoln and was stunned to see how manipulative it was&#8211; in the name of patriotism, I&#39;m sure. Abe wasn&#39;t perfect and he wasn&#39;t afraid to admit it. Frankly, I welcome that in a leader and perhaps if we saw it more often  we could learn to accept it, instead of seeing it as a sign of &#8220;weakness.&#8221; </p>
<p>I read about your family&#39;s recent loss and send lots of love your way.  We are in St Paul MN now and I still miss Denver lots.<br />Liz</p>
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		<title>By: Leebot</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-162703</link>
		<dc:creator>Leebot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 20:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservatism/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/#comment-162703</guid>
		<description>As a former Denverite, I can just picture Mayor Webb speaking as you&#039;ve described.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As someone who has worked with elected officials, I&#039;ve seen the Obama model of inclusive leadership in action, and a skillful, empathetic, intellectually curious person can indeed make it work.  I&#039;ve seen it in action -- the person engaged in active listening, sufficiently secure in his own sense of self that he was never threatened or defensive in the face of dissenting opinions.  Even if, in the end, my ideas or those of another&#039;s were not ultimately adopted, we all felt listened to, understood, respected.  That alone is empowering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a former Denverite, I can just picture Mayor Webb speaking as you&#39;ve described.  </p>
<p>As someone who has worked with elected officials, I&#39;ve seen the Obama model of inclusive leadership in action, and a skillful, empathetic, intellectually curious person can indeed make it work.  I&#39;ve seen it in action &#8212; the person engaged in active listening, sufficiently secure in his own sense of self that he was never threatened or defensive in the face of dissenting opinions.  Even if, in the end, my ideas or those of another&#39;s were not ultimately adopted, we all felt listened to, understood, respected.  That alone is empowering.</p>
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		<title>By: archangel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-162692</link>
		<dc:creator>archangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 19:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservatism/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/#comment-162692</guid>
		<description>dear lizhill; you have the name of a person I love, who is also a writer. I wonder.... ? And, I appreciate your remark about Lincoln. &quot;Best for the job&quot; instead of rewarding loyalty only. What a concept. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Did you see also the Cagle cartoon on TMV last night ... it was the statue of Lincoln monument in DC with a smile on his face, slight tears in his eyes. There is a good deal of revisionism about Lincoln-- all preesidents really. Hopefully we can weigh the best of other presidents, as well as this newest one one one scale; and the not so hot parts/decosions on another... that we as culture can &#039;learn maybe not a different way but an expanded way&#039; to evaluate imperfect leaders might be another kind of &#039;change&#039; that would just up us all a notch in evolution. Wouldnt that be something. Thank you for writing, and warm welcome.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;dr.e</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dear lizhill; you have the name of a person I love, who is also a writer. I wonder&#8230;. ? And, I appreciate your remark about Lincoln. &#8220;Best for the job&#8221; instead of rewarding loyalty only. What a concept. </p>
<p>Did you see also the Cagle cartoon on TMV last night &#8230; it was the statue of Lincoln monument in DC with a smile on his face, slight tears in his eyes. There is a good deal of revisionism about Lincoln&#8211; all preesidents really. Hopefully we can weigh the best of other presidents, as well as this newest one one one scale; and the not so hot parts/decosions on another&#8230; that we as culture can &#39;learn maybe not a different way but an expanded way&#39; to evaluate imperfect leaders might be another kind of &#39;change&#39; that would just up us all a notch in evolution. Wouldnt that be something. Thank you for writing, and warm welcome.</p>
<p>dr.e</p>
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		<title>By: archangel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-162685</link>
		<dc:creator>archangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 19:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservatism/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/#comment-162685</guid>
		<description>dear CStanley: hi there and always glad to see you. I was just thinking of you this morning as I was out near the horses; there&#039;s a police horse stable and paddock just a few feet from my door, and I know you care for animals. Regarding this that you wrote here: &quot;FIght on the issues but don&#039;t ever accuse the opponents of fighting in bad faith.&quot; You said it better than I ever could. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Lack of bad faith would go a long long way as suture in our pretty shredded times. I think too, that not starting hot right into the issues leaves lots of room for discussions to be civil and worked out, and not a perpetual call to arms.... not creating more problems of opprobrium and intense dislike between people in addition to the one issue at hand. Not littering up the field by setting off land mines that make the issue discussion nearly tertiary.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;dr.e</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dear CStanley: hi there and always glad to see you. I was just thinking of you this morning as I was out near the horses; there&#39;s a police horse stable and paddock just a few feet from my door, and I know you care for animals. Regarding this that you wrote here: &#8220;FIght on the issues but don&#39;t ever accuse the opponents of fighting in bad faith.&#8221; You said it better than I ever could. </p>
<p>Lack of bad faith would go a long long way as suture in our pretty shredded times. I think too, that not starting hot right into the issues leaves lots of room for discussions to be civil and worked out, and not a perpetual call to arms&#8230;. not creating more problems of opprobrium and intense dislike between people in addition to the one issue at hand. Not littering up the field by setting off land mines that make the issue discussion nearly tertiary.</p>
<p>dr.e</p>
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		<title>By: archangel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-162682</link>
		<dc:creator>archangel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 19:14:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservatism/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/#comment-162682</guid>
		<description>dear spirasol&lt;br&gt;i would like that his cabinet be the most skilled. Like you, I dont clutch on their affiliations. And you&#039;re right. The world will be watching. So will we all, hopefully not with jaded eyes... or cross ones.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;dr.e</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dear spirasol<br />i would like that his cabinet be the most skilled. Like you, I dont clutch on their affiliations. And you&#39;re right. The world will be watching. So will we all, hopefully not with jaded eyes&#8230; or cross ones.</p>
<p>dr.e</p>
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		<title>By: lizhill2</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-162645</link>
		<dc:creator>lizhill2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:27:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservatism/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/#comment-162645</guid>
		<description>I sure hope so, Dr. E. I especially hope that Obama can pick the best people for his cabinet, regardless of party affiliation. Lincoln was known for this-- even appointing former opponents and people who had been outspoken against him, because they were best for the job. So perhaps he will follow the model of that other politician from Illinois.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Peace to you and your family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sure hope so, Dr. E. I especially hope that Obama can pick the best people for his cabinet, regardless of party affiliation. Lincoln was known for this&#8211; even appointing former opponents and people who had been outspoken against him, because they were best for the job. So perhaps he will follow the model of that other politician from Illinois.</p>
<p>Peace to you and your family.</p>
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		<title>By: CStanley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-162612</link>
		<dc:creator>CStanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservatism/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/#comment-162612</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure I agree, Dr. E. Politics includes strongly held views which are often emotionally charged. Sometimes when an opponent holds his own views very strongly but uses the kind of cool emotionless technique that you commend, it&#039;s actually more provoking than it would be if he would just argue back. Coolness too can be a form of aggression, no?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think that argument and debate can be hot but civil and respectful. FIght on the issues but don&#039;t ever accuse the opponents of fighting in bad faith. That&#039;s the right prescription and I&#039;m not sure we&#039;re there yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m not sure I agree, Dr. E. Politics includes strongly held views which are often emotionally charged. Sometimes when an opponent holds his own views very strongly but uses the kind of cool emotionless technique that you commend, it&#39;s actually more provoking than it would be if he would just argue back. Coolness too can be a form of aggression, no?</p>
<p>I think that argument and debate can be hot but civil and respectful. FIght on the issues but don&#39;t ever accuse the opponents of fighting in bad faith. That&#39;s the right prescription and I&#39;m not sure we&#39;re there yet.</p>
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		<title>By: spirasol</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/comment-page-1/#comment-162607</link>
		<dc:creator>spirasol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 14:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/conservatism/24084/obama-as-exemplar-will-the-two-parties-reach-across-the-aisle-this-time/#comment-162607</guid>
		<description>Well, sure, and if the way Obama handled the baseless McCain attacks of guilt by association are any signal, it will be a new day.  And God Bless him for it for he inspires for it. I say so knowing he is a better man than I. He vows to work with the &quot;honorable&quot; man he just defeated and does not mention the tactics used against him.  Rumors have it that his cabinet will be a mix of Dems &amp; Repubs and he continues to vow to work together.  And it is clear, and he knows it, that he has stoked the fires of change in the people.............so now, though his supporters know he is not a magician, what form will that CHANGE take. How will he transfer the power of the government to work on behalf of all the people.  Indeed the whole world will be watching.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, sure, and if the way Obama handled the baseless McCain attacks of guilt by association are any signal, it will be a new day.  And God Bless him for it for he inspires for it. I say so knowing he is a better man than I. He vows to work with the &#8220;honorable&#8221; man he just defeated and does not mention the tactics used against him.  Rumors have it that his cabinet will be a mix of Dems &#038; Repubs and he continues to vow to work together.  And it is clear, and he knows it, that he has stoked the fires of change in the people&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.so now, though his supporters know he is not a magician, what form will that CHANGE take. How will he transfer the power of the government to work on behalf of all the people.  Indeed the whole world will be watching.</p>
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