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	<title>Comments on: Understanding An Obamacon</title>
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		<title>By: CStanley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/comment-page-1/#comment-162325</link>
		<dc:creator>CStanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/#comment-162325</guid>
		<description>Also, I meant to mention earlier that I would welcome anyone back who decides to vote Obama but still remain in the GOP. I&#039;m not into shunning anyone; I just don&#039;t welcome the supposedly constructive criticism from those who aren&#039;t here doing the reconstructive work right now. Either come back in the tent and help hold up the poles or go work on your new tent, but you can&#039;t have it both ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, I meant to mention earlier that I would welcome anyone back who decides to vote Obama but still remain in the GOP. I&#39;m not into shunning anyone; I just don&#39;t welcome the supposedly constructive criticism from those who aren&#39;t here doing the reconstructive work right now. Either come back in the tent and help hold up the poles or go work on your new tent, but you can&#39;t have it both ways.</p>
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		<title>By: CStanley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/comment-page-1/#comment-162324</link>
		<dc:creator>CStanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:57:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/#comment-162324</guid>
		<description>OK, Dennis, I apologize for lumping you in with Pete and others who have decided to turn away from the party altogether, but with the balance of power shifting the way it is I don&#039;t see that it&#039;s much more defensible to endorse the opposing party&#039;s presidential nominee either.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;That&#039;s not to say that you don&#039;t have every right to do so- but my complaint is when you then question those of us who are sticking it out with McCain as though we&#039;re the problem and we just don&#039;t get it. We get it alright- we just know there&#039;s a lot of work to do and it might take more than one election cycle.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;IOW, again, I disagree with your whole premise that the party isn&#039;t working hard enough to reform itself, and I feel like you are giving up before we&#039;ve even had a chance to start getting there. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Personally I feel that there&#039;s excellent reform happening at the lower eschalons- a really good group of spending hawks in the House, and some great young governors. And if the complaint is that the central, higher level leaders aren&#039;t similarly reform minded, then how does it make sense to punish John McCain for that when he at least has a credible record as a spending hawk and fighter of pork, and thus a more sensible fiscal conservative brand- not to mention a more sensible social conservative brand as well?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, Dennis, I apologize for lumping you in with Pete and others who have decided to turn away from the party altogether, but with the balance of power shifting the way it is I don&#39;t see that it&#39;s much more defensible to endorse the opposing party&#39;s presidential nominee either.</p>
<p>That&#39;s not to say that you don&#39;t have every right to do so- but my complaint is when you then question those of us who are sticking it out with McCain as though we&#39;re the problem and we just don&#39;t get it. We get it alright- we just know there&#39;s a lot of work to do and it might take more than one election cycle.</p>
<p>IOW, again, I disagree with your whole premise that the party isn&#39;t working hard enough to reform itself, and I feel like you are giving up before we&#39;ve even had a chance to start getting there. </p>
<p>Personally I feel that there&#39;s excellent reform happening at the lower eschalons- a really good group of spending hawks in the House, and some great young governors. And if the complaint is that the central, higher level leaders aren&#39;t similarly reform minded, then how does it make sense to punish John McCain for that when he at least has a credible record as a spending hawk and fighter of pork, and thus a more sensible fiscal conservative brand- not to mention a more sensible social conservative brand as well?</p>
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		<title>By: DennisMN</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/comment-page-1/#comment-162312</link>
		<dc:creator>DennisMN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 16:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/#comment-162312</guid>
		<description>CStanley, I don&#039;t really expect or care that people in the party will look kindly on my choice.  And I have not left the party, Pete has, but I have not.  I will still vote for the GOP on many of the downballot races including Senator.  I&#039;m complaining, but I am staying in, so get your facts straight.  I will continuue to fight for change by staying in.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Again, I think that instead of getting angry at the people who leave, there needs to be more thought given into why people are leaving the party altogether or are voting for Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CStanley, I don&#39;t really expect or care that people in the party will look kindly on my choice.  And I have not left the party, Pete has, but I have not.  I will still vote for the GOP on many of the downballot races including Senator.  I&#39;m complaining, but I am staying in, so get your facts straight.  I will continuue to fight for change by staying in.</p>
<p>Again, I think that instead of getting angry at the people who leave, there needs to be more thought given into why people are leaving the party altogether or are voting for Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: CStanley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/comment-page-1/#comment-162292</link>
		<dc:creator>CStanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 15:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/#comment-162292</guid>
		<description>And I guess at the very least, Dennis and Pete, I would think you&#039;d realize that it&#039;s bad form to leave the party and then complain that those you left behind aren&#039;t doing enough to clean up the mess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I guess at the very least, Dennis and Pete, I would think you&#39;d realize that it&#39;s bad form to leave the party and then complain that those you left behind aren&#39;t doing enough to clean up the mess.</p>
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		<title>By: CStanley</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/comment-page-1/#comment-162291</link>
		<dc:creator>CStanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/#comment-162291</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see why you believe so strongly that the GOP is in denial. I&#039;ve seen nothing but hand wringing over the past two years, and people trying to figure out a new direction and correction for the movement. I don&#039;t see a scintilla of denial of the problems we face.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;In fact even the nomination of McCain disproves your belief of denial. If the party still had its head in the sand, it would have rallied around somoene with socon cred or someone who met Club for Growth&#039;s litmus test on taxes while ignoring spending. McCain represents a true change because he has always been a spending hawk and he&#039;s shown that he contemplates tax changes in the context of the current state of the economy, not as a knee jerk ideological stance.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The real question is, how do you expect the party to regroup and reorganize itself when you jump ship during difficult times? Why not stay and help bail out the water, instead of leaving only a few behind and then complaining that they&#039;re allowing the ship to take on more water that will sink it? (Pete, this means you- because yes, I&#039;m angry that you reversed yourself on your decision to work toward reform of the party.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#39;t see why you believe so strongly that the GOP is in denial. I&#39;ve seen nothing but hand wringing over the past two years, and people trying to figure out a new direction and correction for the movement. I don&#39;t see a scintilla of denial of the problems we face.</p>
<p>In fact even the nomination of McCain disproves your belief of denial. If the party still had its head in the sand, it would have rallied around somoene with socon cred or someone who met Club for Growth&#39;s litmus test on taxes while ignoring spending. McCain represents a true change because he has always been a spending hawk and he&#39;s shown that he contemplates tax changes in the context of the current state of the economy, not as a knee jerk ideological stance.</p>
<p>The real question is, how do you expect the party to regroup and reorganize itself when you jump ship during difficult times? Why not stay and help bail out the water, instead of leaving only a few behind and then complaining that they&#39;re allowing the ship to take on more water that will sink it? (Pete, this means you- because yes, I&#39;m angry that you reversed yourself on your decision to work toward reform of the party.)</p>
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		<title>By: pabel</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/comment-page-1/#comment-162281</link>
		<dc:creator>pabel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/#comment-162281</guid>
		<description>Excellent post.  Excellent questions, Dennis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post.  Excellent questions, Dennis.</p>
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		<title>By: pacatrue</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/comment-page-1/#comment-162248</link>
		<dc:creator>pacatrue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 09:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/#comment-162248</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure things are as great of a mystery as Larison wants them to be. Most defecting Republicans have fit a broad mold. Typically, they are fiscally conservative but socially liberal Republicans. The more strident group of the Republican party lately has been the social conservative side, which means the part of the platform with which &quot;moderate Republicans&quot; have been most at odds has been enhanced. Moreover, the idea of fiscal conservatism, which many moderate Republicans might stay in the GOP for, has taken a beating. On the one hand, there has been almost no actual fiscal restraint over the last 8 years, and, even more, non-partisan evaluators rank McCain&#039;s budget plans as bringing on an even higher deficit than Obama&#039;s. However, I&#039;m guessing that&#039;s only part of the issue. It&#039;s also that for large parts of the Republican party, fiscal conservatism has become less and less of an encompassing governmental philosophy and more and more of a single slogans: Lower Taxes. Period. The deficit takes almost no priority. If one is a Republican who wants to lower the deficit, there are as many Blue Dogs on the Dem side as they are real budget hawks now on the Republican side. Add all this to some personal opinions about the individual candidates and voila.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;m not sure things are as great of a mystery as Larison wants them to be. Most defecting Republicans have fit a broad mold. Typically, they are fiscally conservative but socially liberal Republicans. The more strident group of the Republican party lately has been the social conservative side, which means the part of the platform with which &#8220;moderate Republicans&#8221; have been most at odds has been enhanced. Moreover, the idea of fiscal conservatism, which many moderate Republicans might stay in the GOP for, has taken a beating. On the one hand, there has been almost no actual fiscal restraint over the last 8 years, and, even more, non-partisan evaluators rank McCain&#39;s budget plans as bringing on an even higher deficit than Obama&#39;s. However, I&#39;m guessing that&#39;s only part of the issue. It&#39;s also that for large parts of the Republican party, fiscal conservatism has become less and less of an encompassing governmental philosophy and more and more of a single slogans: Lower Taxes. Period. The deficit takes almost no priority. If one is a Republican who wants to lower the deficit, there are as many Blue Dogs on the Dem side as they are real budget hawks now on the Republican side. Add all this to some personal opinions about the individual candidates and voila.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim_Satterfield</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/comment-page-1/#comment-162225</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim_Satterfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 05:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/newsweek-blogitics/23985/understanding-an-obamacon/#comment-162225</guid>
		<description>Dennis,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;     I think that even if Tuesday ends in a crushing defeat for the Republicans, those currently in the leadership will simply follow the same lines they&#039;ve said for years when elections don&#039;t go their way. It&#039;s all the fault of the biased MSM for not putting forth the proper explanation of their answers for our problems. It will never even occur to them that they just might be wrong. Maybe a political philosophy rooted in the 1920s, including the religious revivals of the time just aren&#039;t viewed as the answers to problems of the 21st century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dennis,</p>
<p>     I think that even if Tuesday ends in a crushing defeat for the Republicans, those currently in the leadership will simply follow the same lines they&#39;ve said for years when elections don&#39;t go their way. It&#39;s all the fault of the biased MSM for not putting forth the proper explanation of their answers for our problems. It will never even occur to them that they just might be wrong. Maybe a political philosophy rooted in the 1920s, including the religious revivals of the time just aren&#39;t viewed as the answers to problems of the 21st century.</p>
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