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	<title>Comments on: Election 2008&#8242;s Real Loser Will Be Karl Rove And Rovian Politics</title>
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		<title>By: Bokononist</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23968/election-2008s-real-loser-will-be-karl-rove-and-rovian-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-162172</link>
		<dc:creator>Bokononist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/independent-voters/independents/23968/election-2008s-real-loser-will-be-karl-rove-and-rovian-politics/#comment-162172</guid>
		<description>One can only hope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One can only hope.</p>
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		<title>By: AsherJ</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23968/election-2008s-real-loser-will-be-karl-rove-and-rovian-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-162156</link>
		<dc:creator>AsherJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 23:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/independent-voters/independents/23968/election-2008s-real-loser-will-be-karl-rove-and-rovian-politics/#comment-162156</guid>
		<description>Rove is also probably responsible for most of the &quot;Republican side&quot; of the sub-prime mortgage fiasco.  He and Bush basically bought about 10 percent of the Latino vote through aggressively pushing home ownership for Latinos who had no business owning homes.  So, now the Latino vote is going back to its natural baseline of 25 to 30 percent Democrat, and dropping as the Latino population gets more &quot;brown&quot;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Rove forgot that in political war you reward your allies and hurt your enemies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rove is also probably responsible for most of the &#8220;Republican side&#8221; of the sub-prime mortgage fiasco.  He and Bush basically bought about 10 percent of the Latino vote through aggressively pushing home ownership for Latinos who had no business owning homes.  So, now the Latino vote is going back to its natural baseline of 25 to 30 percent Democrat, and dropping as the Latino population gets more &#8220;brown&#8221;.</p>
<p>Rove forgot that in political war you reward your allies and hurt your enemies.</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23968/election-2008s-real-loser-will-be-karl-rove-and-rovian-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-162117</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 20:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/independent-voters/independents/23968/election-2008s-real-loser-will-be-karl-rove-and-rovian-politics/#comment-162117</guid>
		<description>Super D, did you see what the Bush Administration has done just this past week with the Federal Register, including rule changes that benefit energy companies and such?  (Probably engineered by Cheney rather than Bush.)  Couldn&#039;t they at least have waited, if not the last week in office (while everyone would be discussing Scooter Libby&#039;s pardon), at least until after the election?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;* * *&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Note that while the Left may rush to exaggerated expectations (and misinterpretation of the election), the following guy is realistic.  I suspect it&#039;s why Obama and the Dems have largely played it safe this year, not advocating anything radical or otherwise shocking prior to taking control next year.  They can simply be more coherent and an obvious alternative (and more generous with entitlements and spending promises) than the GOP.  (That&#039;s not too hard to do, despite the GOP&#039;s huge spending.)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.philly.com/inquirer/currents/20081102_The_American_Debate__Democratic_era_coming__Possibly_not.html&quot;&gt;http://www.philly.com/inquirer/currents/2008110...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Super D, did you see what the Bush Administration has done just this past week with the Federal Register, including rule changes that benefit energy companies and such?  (Probably engineered by Cheney rather than Bush.)  Couldn&#39;t they at least have waited, if not the last week in office (while everyone would be discussing Scooter Libby&#39;s pardon), at least until after the election?</p>
<p>* * *</p>
<p>Note that while the Left may rush to exaggerated expectations (and misinterpretation of the election), the following guy is realistic.  I suspect it&#39;s why Obama and the Dems have largely played it safe this year, not advocating anything radical or otherwise shocking prior to taking control next year.  They can simply be more coherent and an obvious alternative (and more generous with entitlements and spending promises) than the GOP.  (That&#39;s not too hard to do, despite the GOP&#39;s huge spending.)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.philly.com/inquirer/currents/20081102_The_American_Debate__Democratic_era_coming__Possibly_not.html">http://www.philly.com/inquirer/currents/2008110&#8230;</a></p>
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		<title>By: Xpatriated Texan &#187; About as well as it could be put</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23968/election-2008s-real-loser-will-be-karl-rove-and-rovian-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-162103</link>
		<dc:creator>Xpatriated Texan &#187; About as well as it could be put</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 19:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/independent-voters/independents/23968/election-2008s-real-loser-will-be-karl-rove-and-rovian-politics/#comment-162103</guid>
		<description>[...] John McCain lost in 2008, no matter what the votes say: Indeed, the McCain campaign&#8217;s sarcastic tone was jarring. The [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] John McCain lost in 2008, no matter what the votes say: Indeed, the McCain campaign&rsquo;s sarcastic tone was jarring. The [...]</p>
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		<title>By: superdestroyer</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23968/election-2008s-real-loser-will-be-karl-rove-and-rovian-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-162099</link>
		<dc:creator>superdestroyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 19:45:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/independent-voters/independents/23968/election-2008s-real-loser-will-be-karl-rove-and-rovian-politics/#comment-162099</guid>
		<description>To make a pro-Democratic partisan point, the enitre articles misses the point.  Rove believes that elections and policy are entirely separate from each other.  That is does not matter what is done while in office because everything can be reduced to niche marketing and gimmicks. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What the idiots in the Bush Admnistration failed to realize is that they would actually have to govern and that their performance would be rated by achievement instead of by gimmicks.  Look at how Rove totally misplayed the response to Katrina or totally misplay the amnesty for illegal aliens. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Rove did not appeal to the base as much as take it for granted.  Rove believes that you can ignore your base for three years while pandering to new groups and then recapture the base during the electon cycle. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Rove also thought that if you pander enough you can get more votes (see the problems that the Republicans created for themselves with the brainless Hispandering).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To make a pro-Democratic partisan point, the enitre articles misses the point.  Rove believes that elections and policy are entirely separate from each other.  That is does not matter what is done while in office because everything can be reduced to niche marketing and gimmicks. </p>
<p>What the idiots in the Bush Admnistration failed to realize is that they would actually have to govern and that their performance would be rated by achievement instead of by gimmicks.  Look at how Rove totally misplayed the response to Katrina or totally misplay the amnesty for illegal aliens. </p>
<p>Rove did not appeal to the base as much as take it for granted.  Rove believes that you can ignore your base for three years while pandering to new groups and then recapture the base during the electon cycle. </p>
<p>Rove also thought that if you pander enough you can get more votes (see the problems that the Republicans created for themselves with the brainless Hispandering).</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23968/election-2008s-real-loser-will-be-karl-rove-and-rovian-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-162095</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 19:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/independent-voters/independents/23968/election-2008s-real-loser-will-be-karl-rove-and-rovian-politics/#comment-162095</guid>
		<description>I had planned to wait and see if anyone else said this (I do this from time to time), but as nobody else has said it yet ...&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The real lesson that needs to be learned, as well as identifying just what the GOP and conservatives are doing wrong*, that specifically is campaign-related, is for the GOP to analyze Obama&#039;s successful campaign, because it has been so successful.  I&#039;m not referring to any need for the GOP to recruit younger, more attractive candidates who are great talkers and smooth with sound bites, the way Obama is (for one thing, GOP-voting people are less fooled by such things), and not necessarily the gimmickry associated with the use of the latest technical tools that Obama&#039;s team used, but rather with the overall aims or strategies that the team followed throughout the year.  Some but relatively few of us had seen Obama&#039;s 2004 speech (the one at which Hillary Clinton displayed amazement and delight; she truly was impressed by it, as anyone who watched the speech and her reaction to it can tell you).  Obama came out of obscurity and first unseated the presumptive nominee, Hillary Clinton, eclipsing her on Super Tuesday, and now he leads easily against McCain.  It cannot all be laid on or attributed to the GOP and public disenchantment.  Obama has run a good campaign and the GOP needs to learn from this.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;* As to the GOP or conservatism, to date I believe my cynical recommendation remains the best -- the GOP should just privatize and outsource itself, in order to become at least, coherent, and hire the Heritage Foundation to make all its decisions.  It can even make money on it, for if sports stadiums and events can be commercialized, why not the pro-business Heritage Foundation Republican Party?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had planned to wait and see if anyone else said this (I do this from time to time), but as nobody else has said it yet &#8230;</p>
<p>The real lesson that needs to be learned, as well as identifying just what the GOP and conservatives are doing wrong*, that specifically is campaign-related, is for the GOP to analyze Obama&#39;s successful campaign, because it has been so successful.  I&#39;m not referring to any need for the GOP to recruit younger, more attractive candidates who are great talkers and smooth with sound bites, the way Obama is (for one thing, GOP-voting people are less fooled by such things), and not necessarily the gimmickry associated with the use of the latest technical tools that Obama&#39;s team used, but rather with the overall aims or strategies that the team followed throughout the year.  Some but relatively few of us had seen Obama&#39;s 2004 speech (the one at which Hillary Clinton displayed amazement and delight; she truly was impressed by it, as anyone who watched the speech and her reaction to it can tell you).  Obama came out of obscurity and first unseated the presumptive nominee, Hillary Clinton, eclipsing her on Super Tuesday, and now he leads easily against McCain.  It cannot all be laid on or attributed to the GOP and public disenchantment.  Obama has run a good campaign and the GOP needs to learn from this.</p>
<p>* As to the GOP or conservatism, to date I believe my cynical recommendation remains the best &#8212; the GOP should just privatize and outsource itself, in order to become at least, coherent, and hire the Heritage Foundation to make all its decisions.  It can even make money on it, for if sports stadiums and events can be commercialized, why not the pro-business Heritage Foundation Republican Party?</p>
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		<title>By: DLS</title>
		<link>http://themoderatevoice.com/23968/election-2008s-real-loser-will-be-karl-rove-and-rovian-politics/comment-page-1/#comment-162077</link>
		<dc:creator>DLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 18:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/independent-voters/independents/23968/election-2008s-real-loser-will-be-karl-rove-and-rovian-politics/#comment-162077</guid>
		<description>Conservatives and Republicans will continue to be subjected to vicious, vile attacks.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And if McCain were somehow to win on Tuesday?  The sewer will outdo itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conservatives and Republicans will continue to be subjected to vicious, vile attacks.</p>
<p>And if McCain were somehow to win on Tuesday?  The sewer will outdo itself.</p>
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