Comments on: The Idea of Sarah http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/ An Internet hub with domestic and international news, analysis, original reporting, and popular features from the left, center, indies, centrists, moderates, and right Wed, 30 May 2012 07:46:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: kritt11 http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/comment-page-1/#comment-161401 kritt11 Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:56:00 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/#comment-161401 EEllis <br>Again we disagree. Campaigning is one of the roles- but certainly not the only one.<br>I would be comfortable with Joe Biden taking over if worst came to worst. Even conservatives like Peggy Noonan and George Will were unhappy with McCain's choice. Even if you just look at it your way, Palin is only drawing the base to rallies- and they probably would have held their noses and voted for McCain anyway-- just to keep the Democrats out of the WH.<br><br>Dick Cheney certainly wasn't picked for his campaigning ability but for his experience-- tho I must say it backfired on W, as they worked at cross-purposes for much of the Bush presidency. EEllis
Again we disagree. Campaigning is one of the roles- but certainly not the only one.
I would be comfortable with Joe Biden taking over if worst came to worst. Even conservatives like Peggy Noonan and George Will were unhappy with McCain's choice. Even if you just look at it your way, Palin is only drawing the base to rallies- and they probably would have held their noses and voted for McCain anyway– just to keep the Democrats out of the WH.

Dick Cheney certainly wasn't picked for his campaigning ability but for his experience– tho I must say it backfired on W, as they worked at cross-purposes for much of the Bush presidency.

]]> By: EEllis http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/comment-page-1/#comment-161379 EEllis Thu, 30 Oct 2008 07:39:13 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/#comment-161379 Kritt the only thing that th VP does as VP that matters is campaigning. Not to be rude but it's like trying to argue about the sky being blue. If you think otherwise there isn't much for us to talk about. I can understand you prefer someone as VP that you feel comfort in having them take over, that to you it may be a requirement. Nothing wrong with that, but the reason both VP candidates were picked was for the campaign because if not both campaigns would have picked people more inline with the main candidates right? Also people can vote for any reason they want but the fact is Obamas resume does not beat Palin's. It just sound like partisanship or sexism because it has nothing to do with facts. Kritt the only thing that th VP does as VP that matters is campaigning. Not to be rude but it's like trying to argue about the sky being blue. If you think otherwise there isn't much for us to talk about. I can understand you prefer someone as VP that you feel comfort in having them take over, that to you it may be a requirement. Nothing wrong with that, but the reason both VP candidates were picked was for the campaign because if not both campaigns would have picked people more inline with the main candidates right? Also people can vote for any reason they want but the fact is Obamas resume does not beat Palin's. It just sound like partisanship or sexism because it has nothing to do with facts.

]]> By: kritt11 http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/comment-page-1/#comment-161337 kritt11 Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:29:47 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/#comment-161337 EEllis- I disagree with your premise that the chief job of the VP is to campaign. The chief job of the VP is to be ready to take over leadership of the country if something happens to the president. I am uncomfortable with Hockey mom, Sarah Palin taking over that role. She may look great in a parka shooting caribou, but that doesn't tell me much about what she would do if Iran suddenly attacked Israel or if our fragile agreement with Kim Il Jong collapsed again. EEllis- I disagree with your premise that the chief job of the VP is to campaign. The chief job of the VP is to be ready to take over leadership of the country if something happens to the president. I am uncomfortable with Hockey mom, Sarah Palin taking over that role. She may look great in a parka shooting caribou, but that doesn't tell me much about what she would do if Iran suddenly attacked Israel or if our fragile agreement with Kim Il Jong collapsed again.

]]> By: Ricorun http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/comment-page-1/#comment-161320 Ricorun Wed, 29 Oct 2008 23:53:04 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/#comment-161320 EEllis: <i>Let's face it the Obama campaign isn't touching that issue because he is so glaringly vulnerable so why are there so many people looking and talking about Palin rather Obama.</i><br><br>There's an old saying: when your opponents form themselves into a circular firing squad, just get out of the way. Okay, maybe I'm paraphrasing. But I think that explains it.<br><br>Since her rollout I've been asking the question on one of the rightie blogs I visit, "Who is Sarah Palin"? It was a joke at first, because I didn't understand how so many people could be so gung-ho about someone they obviously knew so very little about. That wasn't her fault, it's just the way it was. But since then the question has become more, not less, inscrutable. But again, that's not her fault either. Not largely anyway. It's the fault of the McCain campaign. <br><br>There was a time when it was credible to ask, "Who is Barack Obama?" That time has passed. He's been in the spotlight for two years now. He's participated in over 20 debates, 57 "state" primaries (hehe), and innumerable press conferences and interviews. I respect your concern about Obama's "glaring vulnerability". I shared it for a very long time. And I don't think there's any way to fully answer the question of whether the guy is really, truly able to assume the office of the President of the US. Then again, I don't think there's any way to fully answer that question as it pertains to anyone. What I have managed to convince myself of is that Obama is a better risk than McCain. And should something happen to whichever, Biden (despite his gaffes) is a better risk than Palin. Heck, we still know precious little about Palin with respect to what she really thinks about, well... virtually <i>any</i> issue.<br><br>You say, "but some "soccer Mom" just is uncomfortable." I think you mean "hockey mom". Irrespective of that, what I think is uncomfortable is that she (really, the McCain campaign) has provided insufficient evidence to determine whether she is, in fact, just another hockey mom, or something considerably more. I have nothing against hockey moms, or soccer moms, but we're talking about one potentially catapulted to second in line to the presidency. At that point, her connection to any sport becomes irrelevant. At the very least I feel we need -- and deserve -- considerably more information than we've been offered. And that issue gathers greater import in light of the potential health issues of McCain. And again, what we've been offered has been reed thin. I mean come on... do you really think the notion that because she could visit a desolate island in the middle of the Bering Sea that happens to belong to Alaska (not that she has, mind you) and see another desolate island that happens to belong to Russia give her foreign policy credentials? What a freakin' joke! The question is, who came up with it? And regardless of the answer to that question, the next one is... why did they continue to bring it up? What do they take us for? EEllis: Let's face it the Obama campaign isn't touching that issue because he is so glaringly vulnerable so why are there so many people looking and talking about Palin rather Obama.

There's an old saying: when your opponents form themselves into a circular firing squad, just get out of the way. Okay, maybe I'm paraphrasing. But I think that explains it.

Since her rollout I've been asking the question on one of the rightie blogs I visit, “Who is Sarah Palin”? It was a joke at first, because I didn't understand how so many people could be so gung-ho about someone they obviously knew so very little about. That wasn't her fault, it's just the way it was. But since then the question has become more, not less, inscrutable. But again, that's not her fault either. Not largely anyway. It's the fault of the McCain campaign.

There was a time when it was credible to ask, “Who is Barack Obama?” That time has passed. He's been in the spotlight for two years now. He's participated in over 20 debates, 57 “state” primaries (hehe), and innumerable press conferences and interviews. I respect your concern about Obama's “glaring vulnerability”. I shared it for a very long time. And I don't think there's any way to fully answer the question of whether the guy is really, truly able to assume the office of the President of the US. Then again, I don't think there's any way to fully answer that question as it pertains to anyone. What I have managed to convince myself of is that Obama is a better risk than McCain. And should something happen to whichever, Biden (despite his gaffes) is a better risk than Palin. Heck, we still know precious little about Palin with respect to what she really thinks about, well… virtually any issue.

You say, “but some “soccer Mom” just is uncomfortable.” I think you mean “hockey mom”. Irrespective of that, what I think is uncomfortable is that she (really, the McCain campaign) has provided insufficient evidence to determine whether she is, in fact, just another hockey mom, or something considerably more. I have nothing against hockey moms, or soccer moms, but we're talking about one potentially catapulted to second in line to the presidency. At that point, her connection to any sport becomes irrelevant. At the very least I feel we need — and deserve — considerably more information than we've been offered. And that issue gathers greater import in light of the potential health issues of McCain. And again, what we've been offered has been reed thin. I mean come on… do you really think the notion that because she could visit a desolate island in the middle of the Bering Sea that happens to belong to Alaska (not that she has, mind you) and see another desolate island that happens to belong to Russia give her foreign policy credentials? What a freakin' joke! The question is, who came up with it? And regardless of the answer to that question, the next one is… why did they continue to bring it up? What do they take us for?

]]> By: JSpencer http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/comment-page-1/#comment-161315 JSpencer Wed, 29 Oct 2008 23:35:42 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/#comment-161315 "But conservatives are supposed to be realists"<br><br>That's an outdated model I'm afraid. Those glory days ended long ago. If the "conservatives" want to reclaim that mantle (if indeed they ever truly owned it) they have a LOT of "hard work" ahead of them. “But conservatives are supposed to be realists”

That's an outdated model I'm afraid. Those glory days ended long ago. If the “conservatives” want to reclaim that mantle (if indeed they ever truly owned it) they have a LOT of “hard work” ahead of them.

]]> By: Franky53 http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/comment-page-1/#comment-161303 Franky53 Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:01:04 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/#comment-161303 Why is it that the experience of the vice-president is more important that the experience of the President? why do you dismiss the question so easily,? it should be part of the reasoning of why we vote one way or the eother. I do believe that the best thing that Obama has is the gift of gab. I would also add that he has had a better group of advisor to his campaing that Mccain, many things are coming out now that Mccain people should have known and used before this crucial hour, now it sounds like desperation movement on his part. Why is it that the experience of the vice-president is more important that the experience of the President? why do you dismiss the question so easily,? it should be part of the reasoning of why we vote one way or the eother. I do believe that the best thing that Obama has is the gift of gab. I would also add that he has had a better group of advisor to his campaing that Mccain, many things are coming out now that Mccain people should have known and used before this crucial hour, now it sounds like desperation movement on his part.

]]> By: EEllis http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/comment-page-1/#comment-161301 EEllis Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:56:00 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/#comment-161301 I'm still at a loss to understand why Palin is not qualified. The major and almost exclusive job of the VP is as a candidate, the rest are just tit's on a boar hog, as my grandpa would say. She is very good at campaigning so it was a good choice by that standard. Personally I'm wondering how much is unconscious sexism and what is just finding an excuse. HRC was established and we got to know her and were used to the idea of her possibly becoming president, but some "soccer Mom" just is uncomfortable. She is smart and educated and has done an excellent job so far in her public service so why should there be this big concern? Let's face it the Obama campaign isn't touching that issue because he is so glaringly vulnerable so why are there so many people looking and talking about Palin rather Obama. Biden is sounding like he's lost without cue cards but Palins the big focus? It's disturbing. I'm still at a loss to understand why Palin is not qualified. The major and almost exclusive job of the VP is as a candidate, the rest are just tit's on a boar hog, as my grandpa would say. She is very good at campaigning so it was a good choice by that standard. Personally I'm wondering how much is unconscious sexism and what is just finding an excuse. HRC was established and we got to know her and were used to the idea of her possibly becoming president, but some “soccer Mom” just is uncomfortable. She is smart and educated and has done an excellent job so far in her public service so why should there be this big concern? Let's face it the Obama campaign isn't touching that issue because he is so glaringly vulnerable so why are there so many people looking and talking about Palin rather Obama. Biden is sounding like he's lost without cue cards but Palins the big focus? It's disturbing.

]]> By: pacatrue http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/comment-page-1/#comment-161291 pacatrue Wed, 29 Oct 2008 20:02:33 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/#comment-161291 To tack on to the silliness of the "elitist" Ivy League meme, all four of John and Cindy McCain's children went to the best private schools in Phoenix. John and Cindy's daughter later went on to Columbia. Of course, there's nothing wrong with this at all. I went to one of the top ten prep schools in the nation myself. I'm glad the McCains were able to go to schools of their choice. This does not disqualify any of those children from being a good leader and it doesn't disqualify anyone more liberal either. To tack on to the silliness of the “elitist” Ivy League meme, all four of John and Cindy McCain's children went to the best private schools in Phoenix. John and Cindy's daughter later went on to Columbia. Of course, there's nothing wrong with this at all. I went to one of the top ten prep schools in the nation myself. I'm glad the McCains were able to go to schools of their choice. This does not disqualify any of those children from being a good leader and it doesn't disqualify anyone more liberal either.

]]> By: Kathryn http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/comment-page-1/#comment-161280 Kathryn Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:11:16 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/#comment-161280 Go figure, my University of Michigan alumni parents and brother are rabid rightie Republicans. (I went to Vanderbilit, live on the east coast and support Obama so I get the elitest trifecta.) Go figure, my University of Michigan alumni parents and brother are rabid rightie Republicans. (I went to Vanderbilit, live on the east coast and support Obama so I get the elitest trifecta.)

]]> By: Kathryn http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/comment-page-1/#comment-161279 Kathryn Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:10:47 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/#comment-161279 Go figure, my University of Michigan alumni parents and brother are rabid rightie Republicans. (I went to Vanderbilit, live on the east coast and support Obama so I get the elitest trifecta.) Go figure, my University of Michigan alumni parents and brother are rabid rightie Republicans. (I went to Vanderbilit, live on the east coast and support Obama so I get the elitest trifecta.)

]]> By: Ricorun http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/comment-page-1/#comment-161277 Ricorun Wed, 29 Oct 2008 19:01:59 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/#comment-161277 It turns out that one person, at least, thinks <a href="http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/PressReleases/Read.aspx?guid=237a6177-f5d0-4bae-a546-ed869fa56370">Sarah Palin's a brainiac</a>. <br><br>But she's not an elitist. To be an elitist one has to be (a) a Democrat (Lieberman's okay because he's technically an Independent), or (b) a Republican who excelled at an elitist university (you're okay if you didn't do well). <br><br>Nah, that's not quite right. In the end I think the current definition of elitist boils down to: one who supports Obama. If that's true they'll fit you into the definition somewhere. And if you don't they'll find a way to exclude you. It turns out that one person, at least, thinks Sarah Palin's a brainiac.

But she's not an elitist. To be an elitist one has to be (a) a Democrat (Lieberman's okay because he's technically an Independent), or (b) a Republican who excelled at an elitist university (you're okay if you didn't do well).

Nah, that's not quite right. In the end I think the current definition of elitist boils down to: one who supports Obama. If that's true they'll fit you into the definition somewhere. And if you don't they'll find a way to exclude you.

]]> By: AsherJ http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/comment-page-1/#comment-161269 AsherJ Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:12:01 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/#comment-161269 I think this thread demonstrates that the psychic unity of mankind is dead. Would someone please put a fork in it. Palin is less qualified than Obama because she lacks the raw intellectual firepower to be a competent national leader and he does not.<br><br>Raw, in-born talent matters, and it matters immensely. I think we can all agree on that. Let's all say it: the blank-slate ideology is intellectually bankrupt. I think this thread demonstrates that the psychic unity of mankind is dead. Would someone please put a fork in it. Palin is less qualified than Obama because she lacks the raw intellectual firepower to be a competent national leader and he does not.

Raw, in-born talent matters, and it matters immensely. I think we can all agree on that. Let's all say it: the blank-slate ideology is intellectually bankrupt.

]]> By: kritt11 http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/comment-page-1/#comment-161268 kritt11 Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:07:21 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/#comment-161268 The fact that someone is an elitist should not disqualify them from making a judgment. I really don't want someone who lives across the street from me to run the country-- they need to know a lot more and be able to think in complex and abstract ways. I want them to way solutions and different perspectives and have some understanding of different cultures and countries. Its fine to be pro-America but not to the exclusion of certain groups or areas of the country. I'm not a big Condi fan but even SHE would have been a better choice because at least she understands the complexities of our foreign relations and would not just be a flag-waver.<br><br>McCain should have gone with his own best instincts, instead of allowing educated idiots like Bill Kristol and Dick Morris to advise him on his VP pick. Many people, including myself, view this as his first big decision as a potential chief executive. Palin's divisive appeal offers more of the same conservative pablum we have been living with with Republicans calling the shots.<br><br> If he couldn't manage to get someone qualified for this important position, who would think he could pick well for his Cabinet? The fact that someone is an elitist should not disqualify them from making a judgment. I really don't want someone who lives across the street from me to run the country– they need to know a lot more and be able to think in complex and abstract ways. I want them to way solutions and different perspectives and have some understanding of different cultures and countries. Its fine to be pro-America but not to the exclusion of certain groups or areas of the country. I'm not a big Condi fan but even SHE would have been a better choice because at least she understands the complexities of our foreign relations and would not just be a flag-waver.

McCain should have gone with his own best instincts, instead of allowing educated idiots like Bill Kristol and Dick Morris to advise him on his VP pick. Many people, including myself, view this as his first big decision as a potential chief executive. Palin's divisive appeal offers more of the same conservative pablum we have been living with with Republicans calling the shots.

If he couldn't manage to get someone qualified for this important position, who would think he could pick well for his Cabinet?

]]> By: DLS http://themoderatevoice.com/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/comment-page-1/#comment-161256 DLS Wed, 29 Oct 2008 17:22:29 +0000 http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/republican-party/23861/the-idea-of-sarah/#comment-161256 Your bottom-line (end-of-blogging, too) remark encapsulates it all. Yes, yes, the way she has been treated by the media and others on the Left has been unfair, but she is not very strong. I had posted earlier my own opinion, that it was similar to Mike Huckabee. He's a decent person, as is she; they have wider or broader appeal than many presume (i.e., it's not just the religious right or partisan Republicans or whatever subset you choose), they have been attacked viciously, but they are also somewhat in over their head. Technically they are qualified, in fact Huck and Palin both being more qualified than Obama, but Obama is not in over his head (nor is Biden), and McCain (who isn't, either) made a good choice, but it has proven to be weak. (I am amazed that it's being reported that Palin is some kind of upcoming new GOP superstar now. The subset of GOP voters who feels that way isn't enough to support a GOP comeback!) Your bottom-line (end-of-blogging, too) remark encapsulates it all. Yes, yes, the way she has been treated by the media and others on the Left has been unfair, but she is not very strong. I had posted earlier my own opinion, that it was similar to Mike Huckabee. He's a decent person, as is she; they have wider or broader appeal than many presume (i.e., it's not just the religious right or partisan Republicans or whatever subset you choose), they have been attacked viciously, but they are also somewhat in over their head. Technically they are qualified, in fact Huck and Palin both being more qualified than Obama, but Obama is not in over his head (nor is Biden), and McCain (who isn't, either) made a good choice, but it has proven to be weak. (I am amazed that it's being reported that Palin is some kind of upcoming new GOP superstar now. The subset of GOP voters who feels that way isn't enough to support a GOP comeback!)

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